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  1. #21
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    People come and go. That’s perfectly fine even if it doesn’t meet the ridiculous standard that the game should retain everyone 12 months a year. The laughable ones are those that make public declarations that they are done with the game forever, have deleted it from their system, and then hang around posting about it for months or years or are clearly back playing it again in a few weeks or months. It’s posturing, is pointless, and the right way to address that is to ignore it streamers or otherwise.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Let's be real, most of the quitters and streamers will be back next expansion when all the hype comes in. That's why I can't take all these streamers serious (Asmongold, Preach, Bellullar, etc.) when they say they are most likely done with WoW. We all know when the next expansion cinematic comes and the hype is off the charts they will all come crawling back again. They cannot escape the WoW cycle.

    This is not only streamers but majority of the quitters as well. I have seen this happen too many times to count.
    1.) None of them said they outright quit. Asmon plays it just waaaaaay less and has said multiple times he does check back on the game every now and then when there are updates and he sincerely hopes the game gets better as it is his favorite game. Preach said he will stop covering it but not stop playing it. Bellular I have no idea but I m pretty sure he also never said he quit but rather that he is now also covering other games and playing/covering WoW way less.

    2.) Quitters and streamers will be back for next expansion release due to release hype but as you ve noticed, with every shit expansion, people come back but there is less and less player retention with every additional installment. Doesnt matter if everyone comes back for only 1-2 months if they quite for the remaining 2 years that the expansion will last.

    With that being said I havent touched SL after quitting 4 months after release but I am hoping that the game will get better.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Let's be real, most of the quitters and streamers will be back next expansion when all the hype comes in.
    The community is way to big to be ignored by this vampires and with how easy they can impact the game with social media with their reach, its unlikely that we will ever see them gone.

    Streamers got away with exploiting, cheating and all kinds of made up negative content about the game that impacted game support.

    With no consequences and a huge community to milk, I see no future where we are free from clowns not even playing the game but just impacting its development in a negative way for the regular players.

    I hope we get something like MoP 2.0 with new competitive modes above M+ that might kill the low maintenance / clown streamers for good.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    That's quite a good idea. The catchup mechanics and whatnot are usually decent by then, and systems and stuff tends to have been iterated on a few times.
    This is mostly to counter famous Wow devs' ignore feedback cycle. And I started to do it long time ago. Last xpack, I bought at release - was MOP. SL is exception, where I tried to give Wow devs last chance and due to massive positive reviews during release and claims, that everything had been finally fixed. Yeah. And it was big mistake, because all that reviews were most likely paid to boost that "The most sold xpack at release" status and nothing was actually fixed. Every player should do it, if he wants to finally brake this cycle. Dunno why, but it has been happening for way too long time. But now it's more, than obvious. And I just don't understand, how stupid players should be not to realize it. We have told it to you many times already. DON'T PREORDER! When you preorder - they already have your money and therefore have zero reason to release good product. DON'T PLAY AT RELEASE, if you don't like current game! Your money should be EARNED - not given for free! If enough amount of players would follow this rule - devs wouldn't be able to release bad product, because otherwise nobody would buy it = no money for them.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    The next expansion will sell, I'm sure most people know that but most people also lost faith and trust in Blizzard, so if they fail again in 10.0, bringing more borrowed power, more parasite systems that add nothing, and keeps focusing on daily chores to make people waste as most time as possible for "engagement sake", then I think 10.0 will have the sharpest decline in comparison to any previous expansion.

    People lost their attachment to this game, even with 9.1.5 changes I really doubt many people will come back. WoW will keep losing subs as 9.1 gets old and FFXIV releases their new expansion, and New World and Lost Ark (West) gets released.

    Blizzard's stubbornness is going to cost them dearly. The 9.1.5 changes came way too late.
    ^ this.

    Well said.

    So far SL has given me the impression that guys like me who just buy the expansion and sub are no longer the target audience. I could go on, but I'm really starting to just not care about it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    ^ this.

    Well said.

    So far SL has given me the impression that guys like me who just buy the expansion and sub are no longer the target audience. I could go on, but I'm really starting to just not care about it.
    Problem is - BFA was the same faulty xpack and yet all of you have bought SL. And BFA wasn't even first xpack, when it happened. It was MOP after faulty Cataclysm. It was WOD after faulty MOP. I don't count Legion here, because due to some reasons it's considered good xpack, while it was just BFA with extra fun whistles due to extra year of development, but problems were exactly the same. And it was BFA after Legion. So, it's already 6 xpacks in a row, where Blizzard manage to build enough hype to make players buy and even pre-order obviously faulty xpack. Why do you think, that 10.0 will be any different?

  7. #27
    Well there was a time when the start of an expansion was appealing. Now the start of an expansion is a shit tone of bad ideas that will be fixed two patchs laters. So the best part is mixed with the worst. No desire to come at start, and no desire to come when it's "fixed" because it's to late.
    Fixes that were actually planned all along as a release content.
    That's how they release content because it brings back subs. It probably worked with legion because it was the first very obvious one. So they kept doing it thinking that was the best idea ever while it just lose people on the long run and destroy their image even more.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It was MOP after faulty Cataclysm. It was WOD after faulty MOP. I don't count Legion here, because due to some reasons it's considered good xpack, while it was just BFA with extra fun whistles due to extra year of development, but problems were exactly the same. And it was BFA after Legion. So, it's already 6 xpacks in a row, where Blizzard manage to build enough hype to make players buy and even pre-order obviously faulty xpack. Why do you think, that 10.0 will be any different?
    I'm not sure from what perspective you are looking at it, but MoP was a better expansion than Cataclysm was in my opinion.
    Cata was plagued with issues throughout it's cycle;
    -WoTLK FoTM players complaining about heroic dungeon difficulty which ended up making them a cakewalk
    -10m raiding not being properly balanced until halfway through the patch
    -Not enough to do post-leveling

    Sure, the entire vanilla world was remade (which I still think to this day was a mistake) but that's only interesting if you are leveling a new character. After Wrath most of us had 3-5 characters that were max and fully geared and due to the introduction of heirlooms leveling in dungeons was faster and more appealing.

    In comparison MoP was a lot more enjoyable, the only issue that I am reminded of is the daily grind in the first patch but overall for the setting there was a lot to do and also more content added to keep players busy and engaged which wasn't locked behind a segmented model to keep MAU's up.

    If anything they should go back to something like that.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Let's be real, most of the quitters and streamers will be back next expansion when all the hype comes in. That's why I can't take all these streamers serious (Asmongold, Preach, Bellullar, etc.) when they say they are most likely done with WoW. We all know when the next expansion cinematic comes and the hype is off the charts they will all come crawling back again. They cannot escape the WoW cycle.

    This is not only streamers but majority of the quitters as well. I have seen this happen too many times to count.
    What should I come back for?

    1 month of content stretched out over half a year with the use of boring daily chores that give me some arbitrary resource to feed some needlessly complex system that gets replaced next patch anyway with the next needlessly complex system?

    RNG based gear aquirement?

    Soulless (micro)holidays that repeat every year without adding anything substantial and that make me go fly around for 6 hours clicking on some NPCs?

    Devs that ignore constructive feedback for years on end and then insult you on Twitter if you point it out to them?

    A story that went from Alliance vs. Horde with the thread of the burning legion looming in the background to Sylvanas fanboyism deus ex machina bs, interdimensional, reality breaking cosmic forces playing 4D chess in a way that makes no sense rendering every conflict we actually felt for meaningless?

    Shop pets, mounts, toys, transmog and gold, that remove any incentive for the devs to make ingame rewards actually outstanding so in the newest MYTHIC raid content they can feed us a reskinned dragonhawk whose base model has been in the game for over 14 years?

    A toxic community that only really communicates when they can point out their mistakes to each other?

    Higher ups at Blizzard that feeed you easy to make changes players have been asking for for a year now and rename some random NPCs and cities that nobody except maybe some hard core fans even recognized being named after some shady devs to virtue signal to the crowd, while both keeping Frances Townsend and WilmerHale under contract as they prepare the next 6 month shop items to keep you playing?

    The massive dissonance between the amount of Horde and Alliance players?

    Or do you think i should return for the fact, that each expansion every bit of older content is immediately rendered meaningless as soon as you enter X.1. new starting zone, since time walking only exists for a week every month, with expansions Blizzard dictates, mostly on 5 man instances?

    WoW is a dead horse and you keep beating it by playing this husk of a game.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexenar View Post
    I'm not sure from what perspective you are looking at it, but MoP was a better expansion than Cataclysm was in my opinion.
    Cata was plagued with issues throughout it's cycle;
    -WoTLK FoTM players complaining about heroic dungeon difficulty which ended up making them a cakewalk
    -10m raiding not being properly balanced until halfway through the patch
    -Not enough to do post-leveling

    Sure, the entire vanilla world was remade (which I still think to this day was a mistake) but that's only interesting if you are leveling a new character. After Wrath most of us had 3-5 characters that were max and fully geared and due to the introduction of heirlooms leveling in dungeons was faster and more appealing.

    In comparison MoP was a lot more enjoyable, the only issue that I am reminded of is the daily grind in the first patch but overall for the setting there was a lot to do and also more content added to keep players busy and engaged which wasn't locked behind a segmented model to keep MAU's up.

    If anything they should go back to something like that.
    It has been said many times already.

    Cata had zero casual content beyond leveling. It was classical "Raid or die" xpack.

    MOP was first xpack in Wow's history, where 2 things happened, that plagued Wow. They both were implemented to address "lack of casual content" problem, that happened in Cata, but approach was obviously wrong. It was first time, when "Force players to do content, instead of making them like it by themselves" concept appeared.
    1) First half of xpack = mandatory rewards were gated behind mandatory time-gated grinds
    2) Second half of xpack - claustrophobic "sandbox" content appeared

    In WOD there was fear due to removal of flying, that whole outdoor content would be turned into one big Timeless Isle.

    Of course all that xpacks seemed to be "good" for players, who only do raids. Because raids - are only content in this game, that is always good. But raids are done by 10% of players max. What content all other players should have been doing?

  11. #31
    Blizzard was in the situation to always deliver when they came out of a poorly received expansion. MoP delivered after Cataclysm, Legion (over)delivered after WoD. The problem right now is, BfA and Shadowlands both are failures in the eyes of the players. Blizzard never had two poorly received expansions in a row - this is a new low for the franchise. Goodwill only lasts for a specific amount of time and 4 years of "wasted" time on two bad expansions isn't something to easily fix or get undone.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Problem is - BFA was the same faulty xpack and yet all of you have bought SL. And BFA wasn't even first xpack, when it happened. It was MOP after faulty Cataclysm. It was WOD after faulty MOP. I don't count Legion here, because due to some reasons it's considered good xpack, while it was just BFA with extra fun whistles due to extra year of development, but problems were exactly the same. And it was BFA after Legion. So, it's already 6 xpacks in a row, where Blizzard manage to build enough hype to make players buy and even pre-order obviously faulty xpack. Why do you think, that 10.0 will be any different?
    What most people were banking on was that every other expansion is good. There are people are/were under the impression that either there's two teams that alternate creating expansions, or that a 'bad' expansion is detected early on and leads to more work being put into the next expansion; either of these realities would potentially lead to an alternating good/bad expansion cycle. However, I don't think this is the main driver for people.

    One has to keep in mind that despite all the player testing and chatter about an expansion leading up to its release, the VAST majority of WoW are not a part of this information cycle. Your average player is just going to see that a new expansion is releasing on their news feed, and that's the extent of what they know. If you're not constantly embroiled in the WoW daily chatter, you're easily going to forget every detail of every expansion that was good or bad. Perhaps you even don't experience the positives or negatives of an expansion depending upon how casually you play. Regardless, I think the average player is likely more forgiving of the game, but also they likely have a much lower threshold of attachment to the game. They're more likely to base their judgement on a general feeling they get while playing the game, and two expansions in a row of not feeling good about the game will lead to a more permanent disconnect from WoW.

    Now I imagine the group I fall into is likely where many of the players, streamers as well, fall on this matter. We genuinely want the game to be great, but we're done giving Blizz chances at this point. Personally, I've always participated in the alpha/beta/PTR phases of the game because I genuinely wanted the game to be great whenever the content launched... but Blizz has shown that they either care less and less about player feedback, or they just outright ignore much of it. When it came to Shadowlands, I was adamant that the game should not have been released when it was, as I felt (based upon the beta and the average different between the beta and internal builds) the game needed at least another month as many systems were not ready for launch. Ironically enough, 9.1.5 has some (not all) of the issues that I was saying needed to be fixed... but they're not really fixing the systems, they're just Band-aids to make a broken system palatable.

    Basically, a bunch of us are just tired of trying to work with Blizz to try to make WoW a great game, especially if we've been playing since vanilla (but not exclusively). There was a time where Blizz was very active when it came to feedback and informing the players, but that time passed a long time ago. The reason we've stuck around for so long is that there is obviously potential for WoW to be great, but the game tends to always fall short due not in small part to the lack of listening to player feedback. As with any relationship, there comes a time that where no matter how much you love the person, you just have to let go.

    While the 9.1.5 changes are a step in the right direction, they basically mimic the standard 'Band-aid fix' cycle that's been in place for several expansions. Simply put, these changes were mostly expected regardless of the lawsuit and turmoil at Blizz. At the very least, the game should get better as the expansion ages, but that's not going to draw back in most players who quit. 10.0 will be the true test of whether things have actually changed at Blizz, or if it's still an abusive relationship where you get constantly gaslighted every expansion. As I mentioned above, I, as well as streamers, generally want the game to be good, and if 10.0 actually shows a positive change in the game as a whole then that could bring us back.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
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  13. #33
    WoW is a seasonal game. Ppl come back for new seasons, get their KSM, CE etc., then leave. Repeat.

    Everything is as intended.

  14. #34
    Ofc people will come back for the next xpac. Question is - will they stay? As the current formula for max level playing has been the last years, I doubt people will stay in 10.0 if it follows the same path.

    People buy the xpac, play for a month and quit. I actually think Blizzard is fine with that too. They make the revenue elsewhere than from subs. They dont need to create great and long lasting content to rake in the dollars needed.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Quitters and streamers will be back for next expansion release due to release hype
    Maybe some will. I wont and Im not the only one. Something about a straw and a camels back.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Blizzard was in the situation to always deliver when they came out of a poorly received expansion. MoP delivered after Cataclysm, Legion (over)delivered after WoD. The problem right now is, BfA and Shadowlands both are failures in the eyes of the players. Blizzard never had two poorly received expansions in a row - this is a new low for the franchise. Goodwill only lasts for a specific amount of time and 4 years of "wasted" time on two bad expansions isn't something to easily fix or get undone.
    It's not only that. It's their whole design philosophy

    You not only have to grind rep, you also have to grind resources on resources on resources, some of which you can even lose in two of the most hostile environments of all of WoW.
    You also have to grind renown and anima power.

    Then you have to gamble to get the right slotted gear and the right shards to put into them.
    Then you have to gamble to get the right conduits (even though they improved it a bit)

    All this on top of a completely bloated system that's filled with endless combinations of different ways to put together your character, so you have to visit some third party website to find out things the game doesn't tell you, to play your character in a way you might not like, because mathematically, it's the best way to design your character, rendering 90% of the bloat meaningless.

    Why even have so much bloat? Exactely, to make it so that RNG keeps having you waste time, gambling again for the next time to find the right item to keep you hooked and paying, while the game becomes ever more emptier.

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
    Let's be real, most of the quitters and streamers will be back next expansion when all the hype comes in. That's why I can't take all these streamers serious
    There are tons of reasons not to take any streamer seriously but generally speaking dropping an expansion is dropping wow for the time being isn't one of these reasons.

    If the next expansion manages to convince of its merits then sure everyone is entitled to try it and have their own opinion for it. I for one never listen to what others think I create my own opinion based on my own experiences. Thats what everyone should do. Be your own influencer. Don't wait for me to tell you what I think because our experiences are completely different.

    In short, streamers saying Im done (for now) is absolutely natural and being done (for now) = done with wow (for now).
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  18. #38
    Of course many people will be back to check new content (not me for sure).
    There will be enough naive players that will blindly preorder anything after first announcement.
    ... but after circles of same shitty xpacks and many recent Blizzard problems there is no way that majority will return.

  19. #39
    Since I started playing this game back when I was a teenager I never understood why people treated the game like a relationship where you would either have to be fully committed to it or cutting off all ties to the point where you would put all your gamecards and expansions, put in a bin and light it on fire.

    In the end this is a video game and it's perfectly fine to take breaks and come and go depending on if you are enjoying the game, where you are in life etc. There doesn't need to be a great dramatic "i'm done with the game" statement and I honestly find it a bit cringe when some of those streamers use those words.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    players that will blindly preorder anything after first announcement.
    I think not pre-ordering could send a strong message without causing any harm to the game whatsoever. Sadly, they will throw some exclusive mount (one of those they never let into the game) and lure people in.
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