1. #1

    Lightbulb Stay A While And Listen - 9.1 Conversations

    As we progressed through the 9.1 additional story campaign, there were several NPCs with additional dialogue through interacting with them. We've seen these "stay a while and listen" style blurbs of mini-lore since Legion, so I thought the ones from Shadowlands deserved their own discussion thread.

    So far I've found:
    -the two death knights in Oribos
    -Darion Mograine and Alexandros Mograine in Korthia
    -Jaina and Uther in Korthia
    -Thrall and his mother x2, when she recognizes him and later discussing Garrosh in Korthia.
    -Ve'nari and one of the Korthian archivists


    11:11 Nobbel87 covers some of them if you missed them.

    Some lines that stuck with me so I screenshotted them:


    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-09-07 at 02:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  2. #2
    Kael and the Accuser in Sinfall
    Tyrande and Shandris in Ardenweld

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sociald1077 View Post
    Kael and the Accuser in Sinfall
    Tyrande and Shandris in Ardenweld
    I didn't know about the Kael one but that's in the OP video. I can't find the Tyrande and Shandris exchange though, only the Tyrande and Astarii Starseeker in Ardenweald near the Heart of the Forest.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I didn't know about the Kael one but that's in the OP video. I can't find the Tyrande and Shandris exchange though, only the Tyrande and Astarii Starseeker in Ardenweald near the Heart of the Forest.
    It was Astarii, I was typing before thinking

  5. #5
    Particularly Darion's reminded me of "Gods and Monsters" from MOP.


    (5:16)
    "What values do we choose to instill on our progeny? What will our children learn from our mistakes?"

    And between the Uther chapter of the covenant campaign and this dialogue it does make me wonder on Sylvanas. They have clearly made comparisons to both Uther, who reunited with his soul fragment, giving him an opportunity to reflect on his past deeds in a new light and choose a new path forward. But they've also made comparisons to Arthas, who was only whole again in his dying moments, and was never given any opportunity to redeem himself after that point. With these comparisons and callbacks, what can we extrapolate to be the "lesson" here, where are they taking this in regards to Sylvanas? Are we expected to believe we were wrong for killing Arthas? Because we weren't.

    As in the Garrosh example, just because you may have contributed to setting someone on the path, does not mean you take responsibility for all the actions they took on it. It doesn't mean you're obligated to play nice with them when they've gone off the deep end. Garrosh, Arthas, and Sylvanas could not be reasoned with, they needed to be stopped.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  6. #6
    Since we're not getting much discussion, some things that come to mind from thinking over the "stay a while and listen" dialogues:

    1) How do you feel about how Garrosh went out? He's presumably deader-than-dead now in the explosion. I think it's fine, and certainly in-character. Proud and stubborn to the end. You're just not a Hellscream if you don't die in a blaze of glory.

    2) Uther's dialogue is a great take on how long WoW's story has been going on and how the characters have changed over time. Many things have certainly shaped Jaina's character over the years, and Thrall's as another example. Reuniting with the rest of his soul has given Uther some opportunity to reflect on the choices that brought him there, and which he focused on internalizing. What can this tell us about what to expect from Sylvanas? Particularly when combined with the dialogue from the covenant campaign going around and chatting with everyone at the Kyrian ceremony, Pelagos spoke of Arthas "Perhaps some can never be forgiven...but you have shown me that they must be treated with compassion." I do think this implies that while Uther regrets ending things with Arthas carrying such hatred, he was not wrong to oppose him?

    3) How do you feel about the death knights? I doubt I'm alone in feeling disappointed that with all their buildup in Legion, shattering the helm of domination has more or less neutered the edge of their criminal actions under his influence. No one reacted appalled when we came back to warn everyone of the coming storm with death knighted Nazgrim and Thoras Trollbane in tow? I feel like Danath Trollbane, his nephew, should have had a few choice words. o_O I'm not asking for an entire death knight exclusive campaign again, even if that would be great, but a "sidestory campaign" akin to what we did for reviving Hati as hunters in BFA would be nice. This just doesn't feel like enough.

    4) Ve'nari mentions the name of a "realm of the first ones" in their dialogue that she's interested in finding a path to. So that makes the most likely 8.2 candidates being that realm, the original death realm for Zovaal, some attack on our realm against Azeroth herself, or some combination of the three I'd say. Intriguing, for sure, but no "Argus in the sky" moment to really get an idea of what to hype for.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-09-15 at 02:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sociald1077 View Post
    It was Astarii, I was typing before thinking
    There is also a Shandris/Tyrande one.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    There is also a Shandris/Tyrande one.
    [video=youtube;2vQUluuNaHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vQUluuNaHc[video]
    Yeah it's easy to see why it ticks some people off. Accepting Elune's fallibility and earnest intentions is heartwarming, even if I was curious to see what would have happened story wise if they did blame her and some forsook Elune worship entirely, but at the end of the day even without the need for it being dangerously all-consuming, payment is still owed. Thrall was the one who promised Sylvanas's head, Tyrande was the one who accepted the offer in Shadows Rising. There's no need for vengeance in holding people to their word and pursuing justice along the path of renewal.

    After all, at the end of BFA, The Horde worked towards renewal, offering quite generous forgiveness, but there were still those who wound up in chains to accomplish that.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Yeah it's easy to see why it ticks some people off. Accepting Elune's fallibility and earnest intentions is heartwarming, even if I was curious to see what would have happened story wise if they did blame her and some forsook Elune worship entirely, but at the end of the day even without the need for it being dangerously all-consuming, payment is still owed. Thrall was the one who promised Sylvanas's head, Tyrande was the one who accepted the offer in Shadows Rising. There's no need for vengeance in holding people to their word and pursuing justice along the path of renewal.

    After all, at the end of BFA, The Horde worked towards renewal, offering quite generous forgiveness, but there were still those who wound up in chains to accomplish that.
    One of the problems is that the Kaldorei Players cannot see those chained. So from the player's point of view it is useless.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    One of the problems is that the Kaldorei Players cannot see those chained. So from the player's point of view it is useless.
    At this point, if you prefer Alliance and are still paying a sub, you're a masochist.

    Quit and cite the absurdly biased story in your "Oh no, why are you leaving?" questionnaire. At this point, the only way the "no negativity in the dojo" writers are going to change a damn thing is when management sees a monetary problem. If you stay, you're voting with your wallet that this is fine.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    At this point, if you prefer Alliance and are still paying a sub, you're a masochist.

    Quit and cite the absurdly biased story in your "Oh no, why are you leaving?" questionnaire. At this point, the only way the "no negativity in the dojo" writers are going to change a damn thing is when management sees a monetary problem. If you stay, you're voting with your wallet that this is fine.
    I prefer Horde but they destroyed everything that Horde stands for. The good thing is that I do not pay sub anymore.
    The last thing I invested in Bizzard is the W3Reforged and they still haven't given me what they promised.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    I prefer Horde but they destroyed everything that Horde stands for.
    For me, they haven't done that until Sylvanas is forgiven. At that point, if Thrall fails to uphold his word to Tyrande, the proof that "The Horde has changed" from Shadows Rising is moot, and all of BFA was for nothing.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-09-15 at 02:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    For me, they haven't done that until Sylvanas is forgiven. At that point, if Thrall fails to uphold his word to Tyrande, the proof that "The Horde has changed" from Shadows Rising is moot, and all of BFA was for nothing.
    The chances of Thrall killing Sylvanas are so comically, astronomically small that I'd renew my bet to write pro-Calia fanfiction if a gas leak in the Blizzard offices ends up making it true. Staking your hope on it when the expansion has already had Tyrande embrace love and peace and taught Uther to be more compassionate to the murderer of his entire country is not a wise move.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-09-15 at 06:03 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The chances of Thrall killing Sylvanas are so comically, astronomically small that I'd renew my bet to write pro-Calia fanfiction if a gas leak in the Blizzard offices ends up making it true. Staking your hope on it when the expansion has already had Tyrande embrace love and peace and taught Uther to be more compassionate to the murderer of his entire country is not a wise move.
    I wouldn't say Tyrande has chosen peace, love and puppies aplenty just yet. She is right to continue oursuin justice, but there isn't really a point in being gung-ho about killing Sylvanss at this point either except for the principle.

    Sylvanas is captured and awaiting interrogation. What is Tyrande going to do? Run in and kill the best lead on stopping the Jailer just so she can go back to her people and claim justice before they are all killed?

    Giving up on vengeance is the pragmatic choice more than anything. Not to mention oursuing it would be pointless at this stage. Sure it's nice to have closure, but it would be far more effective to have the Horde prove they have changed with actions on Azeroth rather than lopping off the head of Sylvanas.


    As for Uther I think the intent there was more that he was angry at himself for failing his own principles rather than not believing in Arthas enough.
    Uther believed wholeheartedly in his teachings, and despite that he chose to damn Arthas to hell because he was pissed at him instead of letting it go.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I wouldn't say Tyrande has chosen peace, love and puppies aplenty just yet. She is right to continue oursuin justice, but there isn't really a point in being gung-ho about killing Sylvanss at this point either except for the principle.

    Sylvanas is captured and awaiting interrogation. What is Tyrande going to do? Run in and kill the best lead on stopping the Jailer just so she can go back to her people and claim justice before they are all killed?

    Giving up on vengeance is the pragmatic choice more than anything. Not to mention oursuing it would be pointless at this stage. Sure it's nice to have closure, but it would be far more effective to have the Horde prove they have changed with actions on Azeroth rather than lopping off the head of Sylvanas.
    This part is both true and evidentiary of the point in question. Yes, Tyrande going after Sylvanas post-Ardenweald would be functionally speaking futile. But this is only because when she was actually in a position to kill Sylvanas Elune pulled the plug on her and then rigged her to explode. The choice Tyrande makes in the Winter Queen/Elune cinematic is a false one. As you acknowledge Tyrande functionally can't undertake any action to kill Sylvanas as even when doing so had some kind of functional purpose she was prevented to. Only letting go of her entirely justified grievance can she contribute something by allowing that energy go to creating a new sigil. But she's only in that position in the first place because Elune pulled the plug. Let her juice keep going a minute longer and she wrings Sylvanas' neck, Sylvanas dies and then there's no one to hold off the raid from attacking the Blue Man atop Torghast. I mean besides his endless army of fodder and Anduin since Sylvanas actually has exhausted her unique purpose by the time the raid rolls around, but still.

    The main issue with this whole bit though is that the choice is structurally false. Tyrande isn't being unreasonable by wanting to kill Sylvanas - everyone in the plot on the protagonist side wants to kill Sylvanas and enters the final encounter intending to kill her. Except Jaina I guess, she offers Sylvanas the chance to surrender for some baffling reason. They're entirely reasonable given both her wrap sheet and that she's actively helping the Jailer end reality. Tyrande's just rude about it and is after her because of personal grievances instead of just being concerned by abstract goodness. She never exacts any collateral damage, never takes the fight to the Horde despite being entirely justified to do so given the track record of the harm the Horde has dealt the night elves not only under Sylvanas but every prior Warchief they've encountered up to that point and doesn't even kill Sira despite having zero issue killing Wardens for insubordination in WC3. Not only was Tyrande's choice false, but the entire premise is naff.

    The same applies to Uther. I actually like big parts of that questline. The overlapping memories of Stratholme are well done and there's minor character bits, like Uther imagining himself killing Arthas' followers and even Silver Hand who followed him speaks a lot about his mental state. But the actual conclusion of him having failed by not trying to show compassion to Arthas is a ridiculous moral standard. At that I dislike it purely as a bit of story direction and because of what it telegraphs regarding the moral values of the narrative. Being 'compassionate' towards Arthas, Sylvanas or whoever who's done and in a context of a life and death struggle is preposterous. It's an abdication of these people's own responsibility for what they've done and even more so it's an insult to the lives they've ruined on their way there. Uther himself points this out to one of the Kyrian at the start only to backtrack on it later. If his revelation was limited to him regretting that he doomed someone to eternal suffering that'd be fine enough, but it's the broader idea of him having somehow been guilty of moral failing for not giving Arthas more benefit of the doubt that I dislike.

    Mind, if I had to be entirely honest, I do prefer Bluether's characterization to Wrath Uther, who has a very similar end point but with none of the preceding development and with zero attention paid to the circumstances of his death. Deciding to base Uther's characterization on his last moments of losing everything he had to his students and dying in failure and then on his recovery from there was an inspired choice and the execution is decent.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    ...
    It is wrong to judge someone for their actions. P
    But therefore no one can tell you anything, judge someone for his actions because it would be wrong to judge you for your actions.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    This part is both true and evidentiary of the point in question. Yes, Tyrande going after Sylvanas post-Ardenweald would be functionally speaking futile. But this is only because when she was actually in a position to kill Sylvanas Elune pulled the plug on her and then rigged her to explode. The choice Tyrande makes in the Winter Queen/Elune cinematic is a false one. As you acknowledge Tyrande functionally can't undertake any action to kill Sylvanas as even when doing so had some kind of functional purpose she was prevented to. Only letting go of her entirely justified grievance can she contribute something by allowing that energy go to creating a new sigil. But she's only in that position in the first place because Elune pulled the plug. Let her juice keep going a minute longer and she wrings Sylvanas' neck, Sylvanas dies and then there's no one to hold off the raid from attacking the Blue Man atop Torghast. I mean besides his endless army of fodder and Anduin since Sylvanas actually has exhausted her unique purpose by the time the raid rolls around, but still.

    The main issue with this whole bit though is that the choice is structurally false. Tyrande isn't being unreasonable by wanting to kill Sylvanas - everyone in the plot on the protagonist side wants to kill Sylvanas and enters the final encounter intending to kill her. Except Jaina I guess, she offers Sylvanas the chance to surrender for some baffling reason. They're entirely reasonable given both her wrap sheet and that she's actively helping the Jailer end reality. Tyrande's just rude about it and is after her because of personal grievances instead of just being concerned by abstract goodness. She never exacts any collateral damage, never takes the fight to the Horde despite being entirely justified to do so given the track record of the harm the Horde has dealt the night elves not only under Sylvanas but every prior Warchief they've encountered up to that point and doesn't even kill Sira despite having zero issue killing Wardens for insubordination in WC3. Not only was Tyrande's choice false, but the entire premise is naff.

    The same applies to Uther. I actually like big parts of that questline. The overlapping memories of Stratholme are well done and there's minor character bits, like Uther imagining himself killing Arthas' followers and even Silver Hand who followed him speaks a lot about his mental state. But the actual conclusion of him having failed by not trying to show compassion to Arthas is a ridiculous moral standard. At that I dislike it purely as a bit of story direction and because of what it telegraphs regarding the moral values of the narrative. Being 'compassionate' towards Arthas, Sylvanas or whoever who's done and in a context of a life and death struggle is preposterous. It's an abdication of these people's own responsibility for what they've done and even more so it's an insult to the lives they've ruined on their way there. Uther himself points this out to one of the Kyrian at the start only to backtrack on it later. If his revelation was limited to him regretting that he doomed someone to eternal suffering that'd be fine enough, but it's the broader idea of him having somehow been guilty of moral failing for not giving Arthas more benefit of the doubt that I dislike.

    Mind, if I had to be entirely honest, I do prefer Bluether's characterization to Wrath Uther, who has a very similar end point but with none of the preceding development and with zero attention paid to the circumstances of his death. Deciding to base Uther's characterization on his last moments of losing everything he had to his students and dying in failure and then on his recovery from there was an inspired choice and the execution is decent.
    The problem with Tyrande is that as it is with so many things in SL, it had to come off the heels of BfA.
    For Tyrande specifically the specific narrative breaking point is that the resolution to the Elune letting Nelves die question was so incredibly weak when it really didn't have to be.

    I would argue it can still be saved if we get some kind of reason why Tyrande needs to be in the Shadowlands.
    Her failure in killing Sylvanas essentially rests on whether there is any reason Blizzard can come up with that makes Thrabde integral to stopping the Jailer, and not just Sylvanas. At least then you can argue that Elune didn't let Tyrande kill Sylvanas since it would be suicidal and wouldn't actually accomplish anything. That way you also have at least some justification for why Teldrassil had to burn. The vengeance was necessary to make Thrabde follow Sylvanas.

    It would still be dumb, but at least it would be something.


    As for Uther I think the story is doing good enough honestly. In this case I do genuinely feel it is on the consumers reading too much into Uther's guilt. He is clearly a devout man, and his failure to uphold his principles is tearing him up inside, especially when it concerns his failure to stop Arthas, which lead to him enacting blatant hateful vengeance on his soul.

    As for the Kyrian/Forsworn questline in particular I agree. It feels to me most like they had a set endpoint that they were unwilling to change, even as the plot leading up to it fell out of alignment. The one Forsworn who goes from desperation in the Necrolord quest to being weirdly judgemental that the Kyrian didn't give him enough of a chance feels very odd especially. It might have been a niggle in the grand scheme, but that part felt like it needed s solid rewrite to make sense.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem with Tyrande is that as it is with so many things in SL, it had to come off the heels of BfA.
    For Tyrande specifically the specific narrative breaking point is that the resolution to the Elune letting Nelves die question was so incredibly weak when it really didn't have to be.

    I would argue it can still be saved if we get some kind of reason why Tyrande needs to be in the Shadowlands.
    Her failure in killing Sylvanas essentially rests on whether there is any reason Blizzard can come up with that makes Thrabde integral to stopping the Jailer, and not just Sylvanas. At least then you can argue that Elune didn't let Tyrande kill Sylvanas since it would be suicidal and wouldn't actually accomplish anything. That way you also have at least some justification for why Teldrassil had to burn. The vengeance was necessary to make Thrabde follow Sylvanas.

    It would still be dumb, but at least it would be something.
    It's not only that the execution is poor, the whole thing is conceptually poor and should not have been done in the first place. Elune 'leaving the night elves to die' was always a ridiculous plot point from a player perspective in terms of requiring an explanation. The characters can wonder or lose faith because of the extent of the loss they suffered or blame their goddess for not helping as much as they think they should, that's all fine. The absence of Elune's intervention in Teldrassil however never constituted any plothole. Elune did fuck all when the entire universe was on the line in the War of the Ancients besides bubbling Tyrande, when loss would have meant Sargeras destroying everything. Elune also did fuck all in the War of the Shifting Sands which would have by proxy resulted in a void titan. Her not moving her ass except to soothe the victims when a single night elf city was barbecued never required any explanation. Elune didn't do jack before, she didn't do jack now when the stakes were beyond miniscule on any kind of cosmic scale.

    That this explanation ended up being that Elune tried to Fed-Ex their souls but didn't know about the Jailer and they ended up elsewhere is both underwhelming and deeply pointless in doing anything but demystifying the character. It's also not a plothole per se, since her being ignorant is coherent with the story they've presented, but the story didn't require telling in the first place and could've been an entirely internal journey for the night elves to relighting their faith with zero issue. In turn, if Elune were deliberately cast as mostly aloof and they embraced that she essentially railroaded Tyrande into failure to fix her relationship with her sister that'd have a proper ancient Pantheon vibe at least, even if it'd still be much worse than simply never touching the character at all. What I suspect will happen is that those night elf souls will get turned into a WC3 pastiche to kill Archimonde the Jailer.

    Even then all of this tangled bullshit detracts from the core of the situation which is that Tyrande genuinely did absolutely nothing wrong and acknowledgment of this causes the edifice of this plot to collapse. If we'd at least seen Tyrande reach the point of say, the Stonewright, where she went ham on the Horde and really kicked our ass, then started attacking the Alliance when they tried to sue for peace and finally ditched both to go after Sylvanas, killing all in her wake, only for the events of 9.1 to play out there'd be some kind of reasoning for how every single character and the narrative itself treats her as a mad dog despite her doing and saying nothing unreasonable. Instead her entire arc ends up being a toothless and boring version of something a tertiary character that only appeared in one patch went through communicated to us by four paragraphs of optional text. I found that Maldraxxi spider who used the power of Elune to become Batman in her own world and took the lesson not that her actions were wrong but that that kind of power must be one's own after it killed her much more compelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk
    As for Uther I think the story is doing good enough honestly. In this case I do genuinely feel it is on the consumers reading too much into Uther's guilt. He is clearly a devout man, and his failure to uphold his principles is tearing him up inside, especially when it concerns his failure to stop Arthas, which lead to him enacting blatant hateful vengeance on his soul.

    As for the Kyrian/Forsworn questline in particular I agree. It feels to me most like they had a set endpoint that they were unwilling to change, even as the plot leading up to it fell out of alignment. The one Forsworn who goes from desperation in the Necrolord quest to being weirdly judgemental that the Kyrian didn't give him enough of a chance feels very odd especially. It might have been a niggle in the grand scheme, but that part felt like it needed s solid rewrite to make sense.
    If we chisel it down to it being Uther's feelings alone regarding the Light and Arthas, it's fine enough - again we've done it before, and this is a much more competent execution. But given how they bang on and on about redemption afterwards and that it's in the same patch as the aforementioned demonization of Tyrande, I can't really buy it.

    As for the Kyrian plot, the black hole that is the Kyrian dropping people into turbo hell warps every other part of the content. I think the Kyrian send-off at the end of their covenant chapter and campaign where every single character with so much as a bit part gets paragraphs worth of text about their fate, their relationship and what they'll do now is among the best executed wrap-ups of any story area Blizzard have ever done. Yet the actual steps to get there are rushed as all hell and really show the cost of the phantom patch we lost between 9.0 and 9.1. It doesn't help that the guy who's name I forgot who ends up the Forsworn leader is just some pussy and the quest where you beat up people into accepting compassion (and kill like 50 of them as apparently Uther and him are just that unconvincing) is high comedy.

    Blizzard seems to know it too, since in that same massive quest, they sneak this guy in, who's motivation is magnitudes more human, tackles the issue of dropping souls in the Maw directly and has the guy have actual charisma:

    Quote Originally Posted by Achillon
    The soul I bore was a champion of her world. She protected her people and fought against the endless demonic army that invaded her snowy homeland. She gave everything she had to others, from her supplies to her time and energy.
    A soul like that did not deserve any punishment, let alone the torment of the Maw. We had heard as aspirants that souls were being wrongly sent there, but even souls such as hers? It rattled me to my core.
    I had no choice. I knew what I had to do. I joined the Forsworn, pushing for change so that we could save these souls. I did not mean to harm Pallessa in any way, but now I am determined to make it up to her.
    It's a shame that this tackling of the entire overriding stupidity of this plotline and this cool characterization and reasoning for joining the Forsworn instead of 'ree, guess i'll join Satan' is relegated not to the Forsworn leadership but to some random jackoff so irrelevant before this paragraph that he doesn't even have a wowpedia page.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-09-18 at 08:26 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Blizzard seems to know it too, since in that same massive quest, they sneak this guy in, who's motivation is magnitudes more human, tackles the issue of dropping souls in the Maw directly and has the guy have actual charisma:


    It's a shame that this tackling of the entire overriding stupidity of this plotline and this cool characterization and reasoning for joining the Forsworn instead of 'ree, guess i'll join Satan' is relegated not to the Forsworn leadership but to some random jackoff so irrelevant before this paragraph that he doesn't even have a wowpedia page.
    I can't blame them, I couldn't find that dialogue either, I was sure I combed the entire crowd. Maybe some of the dialogue is Kyrian players only? That's certainly too hidden to put something so important, for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I can't blame them, I couldn't find that dialogue either, I was sure I combed the entire crowd. Maybe some of the dialogue is Kyrian players only? That's certainly too hidden to put something so important, for sure.
    I think he's Kyrian-exclusive. I did it on a Kyrian character and from wowpedia the whole Kyrian party bit that I praised is only available to Kyrian characters. I could still get some of their dialogue on the big platform where the Archon restores the plot device but I don't think he was on it.

    It's also possible it wasn't in at launch and it simply wasn't part of the quest when you did it. They've been steadily adding more dialogue as the patch has gone on.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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