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  1. #1

    Open covenants effect on raiders

    For a mythic completion raider in the upcoming tier? Based on class... are you looking forward to possibly swapping for every boss for progression if necessary for mechanics?

    Also is the balance there or the niches to be filled in lower roster guilds that this would've helped in sanctum progression had you been able to swap your main roster over covenants now?

  2. #2
    It wasn't necessary before, and it's not necessary now.

    Will people swap? I'm sure some will. Others won't bother, for two reasons. 1) Many classes/specs actually already have one Covenant that's a clear winner; 2) it's too much of a hassle to do all the time just for minor gains when two or more Covenants are close in performance.

    What we'll see a lot more, I reckon, is people who'll play on one Covenant for a while, then switch to another for a while, and so on. Or people who'll raid on one, M+ on another, PvP on a different one, etc. But even there it's not usually a super big spread, and many classes/specs will again be on one clear winner.

    If you're someone who's in the market for actual top-tier competition in terms of WoL ranks or M+ score or whatever, you'll do what you have to - but then again that was always the case, and those people know and accept that.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    If you’re in a mythic raiding guild, chances are you’re playing your class correctly and which covenant you pick won’t matter. World first is another story, but as long as someone can play their class really well, it doesn’t matter. I’d argue most are already playing the highest simming covenant to begin with.

    I predict more people will raid after the patch goes live and we can easily switch between covenants.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  4. #4
    Who in their right mind would not be looking forward to being able to swap covenants at will?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    It wasn't necessary before, and it's not necessary now.
    This couldn't be more wrong it was completely necessary then and now. What if I am a dps warrior who wants to raid, but then I like to pvp on my off nights? I would need 2 different covenants to complete those two tasks at the best of my character's ability, so I would be gimping myself no matter what if I was forced to choose, and stick with, a single covenant. Maybe I prefer to tank m+ competitively as well on off-nights. Oops, requires a different covenant as well feels bad too bad.

    This sort of scenario (aka problem) is present on the majority of classes as well.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    This couldn't be more wrong it was completely necessary then and now.
    I think you're unclear on the meaning of the word "necessary".

  6. #6
    I can't really see that happening for my class at least... maybe some gain a benefit but there is a clearly defined BiS and always has been for most. I am looking forward to unlocking some of the transmog myself.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Who in their right mind would not be looking forward to being able to swap covenants at will?

    - - - Updated - - -



    This couldn't be more wrong it was completely necessary then and now. What if I am a dps warrior who wants to raid, but then I like to pvp on my off nights? I would need 2 different covenants to complete those two tasks at the best of my character's ability, so I would be gimping myself no matter what if I was forced to choose, and stick with, a single covenant. Maybe I prefer to tank m+ competitively as well on off-nights. Oops, requires a different covenant as well feels bad too bad.

    This sort of scenario (aka problem) is present on the majority of classes as well.

    Someone doesn't know how PVP warriors work, all of them have been viable in PVP already this xpac. At least 3 of them were in the AWC this season

    Quit making up strawmen to dunk on

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Swapping covenant for each boss is like a bit too much. I’m sure they will add something like a betrayal status.
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  9. #9
    I probably won't. Because Venthyr is best for everything I do on my spec.

    About the covenant swapping... People need to remember you will need a high enough renown to actually swap without any repercussions.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Players who reach a high Renown threshold will be able to freely switch among any of the four Covenants without cooldown or restriction, as well as use cosmetic rewards that they have earned from one covenant even if they are currently a member of a different one. Both the Covenant switching and the use of cosmetic rewards will also apply to alts once the Renown threshold is reached on one character. (This feature will be available in a later PTR build)
    We probably won't see much changes between the bosses in the raid... but pretty sure we will see people swapping covenants for m+.

  10. #10
    Changing every boss on farm nice for parsing is one issue guilds will have to deal with, but frankly that's their culture problem to handle, not Blizzard's.

    The ability to change for when you are progressing on a boss (and thus expecting at least one night of wipes) will be a significant boon to everyone.

    But yeah, the ability to swap for M+ or PvP is by far the biggest boon. It was a huge gatekeeping mechanism (especially for pvp, where the best covenant is usually massively ahead)
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  11. #11
    They really should give switching a daily cooldown, just to avoid incentivizing players to do un-fun stuff like switching for each boss.

    Honestly, I'd like to be in every covenant simultaneously as pertains to quests, teleports, world buffs, etc. Whichever covenant is "active" determines the two active abilities you get and your callings, that's it.

  12. #12
    It helps the most the classes where each spec / role prefers different covenant, so for example if you switch between healer and dps you can also switch to the favourable covenant for that role. I think it really sucked covenant wasn't per spec only per class, if you remember artifacts it required extra grind to upgrade off spec ones but you weren't completely locked out of what you wanted.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by h8ryan View Post
    Someone doesn't know how PVP warriors work, all of them have been viable in PVP already this xpac. At least 3 of them were in the AWC this season

    Quit making up strawmen to dunk on
    Kyrian has always been bis every time I ever looked up warrior pvp, and there are so many other examples available to go through, but sure it's a 'strawman' (you don't even knwo what that buzz word means apparently).

    And obviously I'm right since Blizz has pulled the ripcord, and it was very obvious they did not want to, but the overwhelming negative feedback from the playerbase, who must love dunking on that same strawman you mentioned, saying covenants are/were shit the way they pigeon-holed you.

  14. #14
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    Swapping every boss?
    I mean, there will be some people who feel it's necessary, but by and large, it's not that big a deal.
    Like, WF race, sure I can see them saying "after x wipes on boss, ;et's re-evaluate covenants by role/class and mix it up because of explicit reason".
    Outside of that, the only people who would do that are the ones who just want to mimic whatever <insert WF player name here> does.

    I would think the vast majority of players will switch for purposeful content (could be A for open world, B for raid, C for PVP, D for M+) based on what they want to do.
    I even see people switching every few days or every week, just to build each up, see the story, whaever.

    But I don't see many actually switching mid-raid though and making the rest of the raid wait while they hearth out, swap covenants, go dick around with soulbinds/conduits, etc.
    Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that just seems like too much.
    But hey, if that's what you want to do and your raid team doesn't mind, more power to you.

  15. #15
    As a progression raider I don't see that I'll swap covenants between bosses per se, however I would consider screwing around with different play styles just in case they become BiS later on in the 9.1.5 lifespan or into 9.2.

    Mostly interested in the mogs, while I've liked playing Nightbae since launch I don't like the armor sets on an Orc. Venthyr is much more up my ally.
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  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Considering that during progress each boss takes usually a few dozens of pulls (and therefore a few raiding nights) this is hardly an issue. The logs chasers on farm nights are the one screwed by this.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  17. #17
    Yes people will switch for each boss during progression, but they'll be stuck on that boss for hours or days anyway.

    Thing is, second and third kills can be tough too. Everybody knows the fight, but it's still close. So you may still see frequent switching. An 18 hour cooldown would help there.

    Real downside would be if you want to do both PvE and PvP and switch for that, or if you want to play a different spec in M+ and raids. I guess you convinced me. Best to have no cooldown at all. Best gameplay for the most people.

  18. #18
    Raid i doubt youll see much change, people already run their best except maybe some niche changes like if you need grabbyhands from dk for a certain boss. Main change is probably for m+.

  19. #19
    It'll be a bit awkward for sure but it's not much different from when you'd reforge between bosses back in MoP.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Thing is, second and third kills can be tough too. Everybody knows the fight, but it's still close. So you may still see frequent switching. An 18 hour cooldown would help there.
    Help who, exactly? If raid leader feels like it's slowing down the raid, they should handle it within the group itself. If not, then they don't need an artifical limiter and everyone can do whatever they like. And if it makes second/third kills easier... everybody wins?

    Besides, we already have a cooldown on covenant switching - it's two weeks. It's about to be removed and it should not have any conditions attached. If someone wants to change covenants every single boss, it's their own problem - and their group should react to accordingly. No need for external policing of something that will not be a concern to the overwhelming majority, even within mythic guilds.

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