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  1. #1

    So how good is Rae'shalare ?

    Its weird I cant seem to find much info about just how good this legendary is.

    Im fairly geared and have a 252 bow with sub optimal stats. Using the sim droptimizer on raidbots shows Rae'shalare 246 verision as a -15 DPS downgrade.
    Is it just comparing stats and not simming the wailing arrow portion ?

  2. #2
    246 rae'shalare sims ~80dps better for me than 252 bow for BM and ~40dps for MM and I'm 250 ilvl with high versatility. And thats for pure single target, for cleave or aoe it's value only goes up so yeah it's good.

    It's simming with the wailing arrow but for MM it might not sim better or be on par with 252 bow on single target depending on gear. But you should remember it's aoe dmg + silence so it has it's value even if it sims slightly worse.
    Last edited by mmocfd1b0ab5a3; 2021-09-09 at 04:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Simcraft is imperfect. Rely on your own playtests.
    TEAM BUYER'S REMORSE
    Avoid the Odyssey NEO G9 Until They Un-Broke the HDR
    Remember: Opinions can't hurt you.
    Woman in Tech. Don't @ me with your vitriol for not agreeing blindly with your position.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Simcraft is imperfect. Rely on your own playtests.
    I dont have it I was just curious if its actually good or a repeat of sunwell.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by minkage View Post
    I dont have it I was just curious if its actually good or a repeat of sunwell.
    Repeat of Sunwell? Thoridal was the -best- bow in the game, bar-none. Golden Bow was inferior due to the fact that Steady/Arcane shots didn't scale from weapon DPS.
    TEAM BUYER'S REMORSE
    Avoid the Odyssey NEO G9 Until They Un-Broke the HDR
    Remember: Opinions can't hurt you.
    Woman in Tech. Don't @ me with your vitriol for not agreeing blindly with your position.

  6. #6
    Blademaster furfmonkey's Avatar
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    now if only it will drop

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Simcraft is imperfect. Rely on your own playtests.
    This is spectacularly terrible advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by minkage View Post
    I dont have it I was just curious if its actually good or a repeat of sunwell.
    Thori'dal was a major upgrade over any other option at the time.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bepples View Post
    This is spectacularly terrible advice.
    Yes and no. It is imperfect. Mostly because most players don't know how to set up sims for specific situations.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Repeat of Sunwell? Thoridal was the -best- bow in the game, bar-none. Golden Bow was inferior due to the fact that Steady/Arcane shots didn't scale from weapon DPS.
    Golden Bow had less weapon DPS than Thoridal. So, it not scaling would've been good for Golden Bow.

    I remember Ammo DPS not counting, that's why Thoridal is superior and not a semi-upgrade/sidegrade. Even then however, Thoridal has more DPS. So ye, it's better but it's because the fact that steady shot did scale with weapon dps.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-09-10 at 10:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Bit of revisionist history going on.

    Back in the day it was widely talked about how everyone was let down by Thoridal and how Golden Bow was a better choice. I was certainly active on the wow and mmochamp forums back then and it was a big talking point in hunter circles.

    I dont doubt that you guys are correct as every facet of the game has been mathed out by very clever people BUT for the longest time Thoridal was considering a joke legendary.

  11. #11
    To add to the discussion about Golden Bow vs Thoridal:
    Talking to guild members who played back then, the issue came down to the fact that Thori is a lego with a 1% drop chance, while Golden Bow is rare with a higher drop chance and the dps was just barely lower than Thori. The drop rate and closeness to dps differences made Golden Bow much more attractive to people simply because it was more likely to obtain it.
    Was Thoridal better? From what I heard, yes; but, it wasn’t lucrative enough in dps or drop chance to be something that pops out and people were really wanting to get.

  12. #12
    It's not really much of a "legendary" in the old sense. It's certainly not something you'll be using for the rest of the expansion.

    If you go by ilvl, just add about 8 to it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by minkage View Post
    Bit of revisionist history going on.

    Back in the day it was widely talked about how everyone was let down by Thoridal and how Golden Bow was a better choice. I was certainly active on the wow and mmochamp forums back then and it was a big talking point in hunter circles.

    I dont doubt that you guys are correct as every facet of the game has been mathed out by very clever people BUT for the longest time Thoridal was considering a joke legendary.
    Revisionist history? No. Here you go, circa 2008:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...acked-up-to-be

    Thori'dal wasn't the monstrous DPS increase that, say, Warglaives were. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the optimal choice, and the best bow available at level 70.
    TEAM BUYER'S REMORSE
    Avoid the Odyssey NEO G9 Until They Un-Broke the HDR
    Remember: Opinions can't hurt you.
    Woman in Tech. Don't @ me with your vitriol for not agreeing blindly with your position.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Simcraft is imperfect. Rely on your own playtests.
    Imperfect yes, but the best we have if used properly - while "own playtests" are a lot less reliable, and a lot more error-prone. Not to mention that telling someone who's clearly looking for advice to just trust their own testing seems a little bit foolhardy advice.

    Simcraft is very useful for relative comparisons. The absolute numbers aren't nearly as interesting. But yes Simcraft needs proper configuration, and proper evaluation of results vis-a-vis practical use cases; if those are handled properly, it's THE best tool we have available for analyzing and making such decisions as OP is asking about.

    My advice would be to check with peer-reviewed resources like e.g. Simcraft results on the class Discord. Those tend to be among the most reliable sources of information when it comes to gearing, and are checked and rechecked by the community on an ongoing basis.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by minkage View Post
    Bit of revisionist history going on.

    Back in the day it was widely talked about how everyone was let down by Thoridal and how Golden Bow was a better choice. I was certainly active on the wow and mmochamp forums back then and it was a big talking point in hunter circles.

    I dont doubt that you guys are correct as every facet of the game has been mathed out by very clever people BUT for the longest time Thoridal was considering a joke legendary.
    It's both hilarious and outrageous that you're accusing other people of revisionist history. You can still see those old MMO champion threads easily with a google search and the consensus is Thori'dal was a major upgrade. In addition to the one that's linked to you in this thread already go and check the wowhead comments on the Thori'dal page (sort by Old).

    The only people pushing the point that Thori'dal was weak were greedy Warriors and Rogues who wanted the bow for themselves and Hunters who fell for their disinformation campaign, evidently not understanding their own class or just even glancing at the tooltips for Thori'dal and Golden Bow. Grats on being part of the latter, I guess.

    It's one thing to just be misinformed and wrong about something. It's a whole new league when you're confidently incorrect and accusing others of being wrong or even deliberately misleading when you evidently haven't done any investigating whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Was Thoridal better? From what I heard, yes; but, it wasn’t lucrative enough in dps or drop chance to be something that pops out and people were really wanting to get.


    This is a simulation of Hunter BiS gear. Saved DPS is Thori'dal, Active DPS is Golden Bow. 5.5% is an enormous DPS increase from one item. In fact it's the biggest single DPS increase of any item for Hunters in BC. Thori'dal was absolutely something Hunters went crazy over, to the point where there was a forum-wide witchhunt when a guild very famously gave it to a Rogue instead at one point (Vicarious; they wanted to reward the Rogue's long-term loyalty to the guild).

    On that note, just to pre-empt this point that will undoubtedly come up in this thread: No, the world first Thori'dal drop was not given to a Rogue. Several Thori'dals had dropped by the time the Vicarious incident happened and they all went to Hunters. The world first Thori'dal went to Stefang of Last Resort, a Hunter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    It's not really much of a "legendary" in the old sense. It's certainly not something you'll be using for the rest of the expansion.

    If you go by ilvl, just add about 8 to it.
    It depends on whether they allow it to be upgraded in the future. It certainly doesn't have the same staying power other legendaries in the past have had such as Dragonwrath.

    Labelling the bow as legendary is very questionable. Other classes have epic weapon upgrades that are far larger e.g. Rogue daggers. It's effectively legendary for flavour purposes only. That and apparently screwing Hunters over because Rae'shalare can't drop from the Great Vault while all those other better weapons can.
    Last edited by Bepples; 2021-09-11 at 03:58 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Revisionist history? No. Here you go, circa 2008:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...acked-up-to-be

    Thori'dal wasn't the monstrous DPS increase that, say, Warglaives were. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the optimal choice, and the best bow available at level 70.
    That wasn’t its problem. It’s that it dropped from the last boss of the last raid of the expansion so it was literally useless from a raid progression perspective.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by World Peace View Post
    Simcraft is imperfect. Rely on your own playtests.
    thats a negativ IQ play
    I.O BFA Season 3


  18. #18
    Heroic version is ~200 DPS increase for me over my 252 vault bow

  19. #19
    for me, 252 best in slot stats outsims a 246 rae by 101 dps. only thing beating the sim on my 252 bow is the 259 mythic rae version.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    for me, 252 best in slot stats outsims a 246 rae by 101 dps. only thing beating the sim on my 252 bow is the 259 mythic rae version.
    Link this sim please

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