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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    The tree won the popular vote for the mount, it's a VERY unique mount, noone uses it. Lets start there, explain why the mount winning the competition isn't used everywhere all the time, or even better, used anywhere, at all?

    2. How many upsales can you really do on a Sword? Not that many it turns out, why do you want EXACTLY the CM sets and the mage tower appearances? Because they are rare and unique, that creates value even if you don't want to admit it. For nearly any class, you can find better looking weapons or armor elsewhere in the game.

    3. There is nothing wrong with an incentive to act every once in a while, the problem is if every reward is FOMO. One or two things per expansion is a good thing.
    1. Tree mount is not content. Also like someone mentions below, its big and it doesnt fly.

    2. Artificial scarcity is artificial value. It's not real. It's fabricated. Real value is something that is hard and remains hard - XIV does it right, WoW does fomo.

    3. There is everything wrong if it's gone forever, it creates the sense for potential new player that they are late to a party and rightfully so. We've seen tons of questions like that and whenever asks I tell them it is too late indeed.

    PROPER way to create incentive once in a while is repeating seasonal events. Not fomo.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    But isn't marketing, if they re add stuff in the next expansion, why I should play now?

    Just wait for 10.0 or 11.0 and resub when they decide to repurpose them.


    I would like to get CM MoP on other char but I did only on my main and this is fine.

    If people don't work for unique stuff in a mmorpg and just wait the lazy way is really fun?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Original conditions can't be replicated, different classes balance, talents etc etc.

    Is like Classic And TBCC isn't the original version so you can replicate it.
    How about you play whenever you want and not feel arbitrarily "forced" to based on some sort of time-limited event? That's all this fomo stuff promotes. Nobody is impressed by you being subbed to a game at a certain point in time.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Long as its roughly as challenging I don't see the issue but I see the progress as getting it being more important then the rewards. The rewards are a nice capstone to the process but not the important part. I just want the most character customizations possible. I wouldn't lose sleep if people could build their own aetish or had access to my naxx weapons or the host of other items I was lucky enough to be a pack rat and kept.

    Edit because I dont want to risk getting another post. Similar enough it not perfect.

    The problem is to make it roughly as challenging it was.

    Tower Mage was made with the Artifact / Leggo / Concordance Legion / Relic / Diffent Balance Class


    How can they make it in 9.1.5 similar? You can already basically going with


    HoAzeroth
    WoD Ring
    MoP Back
    Azerite Gear
    Covenant(?)

    Could be stomped with closed eyes or could be scaled to 60 so badly that will be like Torghast 9.0 with classes like rogue fucked

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    1. Tree mount is not content. Also like someone mentions below, its big and it doesnt fly.

    2. Artificial scarcity is artificial value. It's not real. It's fabricated. Real value is something that is hard and remains hard - XIV does it right, WoW does fomo.

    3. There is everything wrong if it's gone forever, it creates the sense for potential new player that they are late to a party and rightfully so. We've seen tons of questions like that and whenever asks I tell them it is too late indeed.

    PROPER way to create incentive once in a while is repeating seasonal events. Not fomo.
    1. We didn't get flying until recently, noone was using it when we couldn't fly either, people VOTED for this and still don't want it.

    2. MMO, everything is artificial, including the content, and you get the mage tower back now, but you are here complaining anyways, so obviously you wanted the skins, not the content?

    3. If everything stays you are overwhelmed and you could never farm it all anyways. And to your last point, you feel that is the right, way, I feel FOMO is the right way, there is no way to measure who is right since it's subjective, and most things come back all the time. It's just a few things per expansion that stay gone, as it should be.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Communism View Post
    Why not? All the players that have had them for the last X years have had their 'prestige' of owning and earning them at the time. I know a fair few people that didn't play Legion or much of it and would like to have the chance to get these, including myself.

    Make the OG a Feat of Strength, or a title or make new versions of the skins with a recolour.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly this.
    ^

    Speaking as someone that did the Warlock green fire quest and the mage tower on my bear when both were current, I'm in favour of this solution.

    I think the fact that druids have virtually no customization for their forms (which they spend most of their time in) makes it a shame new players need to run through most of an old expansion from years ago to get a new model. The fact that the only alternative bear form with unique animations (werebear) was from the Magetower and was unobtainable for new people who didn't play a druid in Legion is aggravating.

    The green fire quest awarded a title/achievement while current, and is now unattainable. The green fire itself though is still available for anyone that wants it, minus the challenge of course. Instead of needing to use just about every skill in the warlock's toolkit you simply one shot the boss now and I'm fine with that. Anyone that didn't play in MoP, rolls a lock should be able to go farm the book and get green fire if they want it. For those like myself that did it when current they got to experience a memorable challenge and have a spiffy "Black Harvest" title- hell, let new players get the title too. Doesn't ruin my experience any.
    Last edited by SidFwuff; 2021-09-17 at 03:54 PM.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    1. We didn't get flying until recently, noone was using it when we couldn't fly either, people VOTED for this and still don't want it.

    2. MMO, everything is artificial, including the content, and you get the mage tower back now, but you are here complaining anyways, so obviously you wanted the skins, not the content?

    3. If everything stays you are overwhelmed and you could never farm it all anyways. And to your last point, you feel that is the right, way, I feel FOMO is the right way, there is no way to measure who is right since it's subjective, and most things come back all the time. It's just a few things per expansion that stay gone, as it should be.
    1. Again, mount is not content. It's irrelevant in terms of this discussion.

    2. No. Feelings aren't artificial. Pixels are. And I have 36 mage tower skins. I've done them all. And I still think its stupid it was removed.

    3. Nonsense. XIV does this right. There is no such thing as "overwhelmed" despite having thousand systems you could learn. One step at the time.

    You dont seem to understand yet again, that for game longevity and GAME VALUE no content should be ever removed (with exception of extreme cases). It discourage new players from even trying because so much cool shit was removed.

    BUT if devs regret adding something into game then they need to learn insight and think longer before adding something in game, otherwise its just FOMO. Short term profit, long term shot in foot.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  7. #427
    I don't really care about rarity or exclusivity. I have tons of things that aren't available anymore, yet I wouldn't mind if blizz brought them back and other people could enjoy them too. I don't use the tree because it's just too big. What makes something appealing to me is its aesthetics. I like matching weapons to outfits to mounts.

    So for example, I have the necro-knight's garb from naxx40. This robe is unobtainable now. I don't like this robe because of its unavailability but rather how good I think it looks. I use either the pvp skin/purple tint of the frost spec artifact or the pvp skin/purple tint of the arcane spec artifact to go with this robe since either works well with it. And mount-wise I use the court sinrunner, an easy to acquire reputation mount since it's coloration works perfectly.

    Rarity means nothing to me, yet aesthetics mean everything, especially when it comes to matching my transmog. If I didn't have the mage tower skins already, I wouldn't care about them because they were unavailable or uncommonly used, but rather I'd care about them due to their aesthetics matching my outfits.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2021-09-17 at 05:30 PM.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    The problem is to make it roughly as challenging it was.

    Tower Mage was made with the Artifact / Leggo / Concordance Legion / Relic / Diffent Balance Class


    How can they make it in 9.1.5 similar? You can already basically going with


    HoAzeroth
    WoD Ring
    MoP Back
    Azerite Gear
    Covenant(?)

    Could be stomped with closed eyes or could be scaled to 60 so badly that will be like Torghast 9.0 with classes like rogue fucked
    It seems simple enough to disable any legendary effects that are not legion based. There is code in the game to allow it already. It won't be a perfect replica of course but I believe it will fall under " close enough" when you compare it to a full mythic raider on the last patch walking over the challenges for the rewards.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    1. Again, mount is not content. It's irrelevant in terms of this discussion.

    2. No. Feelings aren't artificial. Pixels are. And I have 36 mage tower skins. I've done them all. And I still think its stupid it was removed.

    3. Nonsense. XIV does this right. There is no such thing as "overwhelmed" despite having thousand systems you could learn. One step at the time.

    You dont seem to understand yet again, that for game longevity and GAME VALUE no content should be ever removed (with exception of extreme cases). It discourage new players from even trying because so much cool shit was removed.

    BUT if devs regret adding something into game then they need to learn insight and think longer before adding something in game, otherwise its just FOMO. Short term profit, long term shot in foot.
    Uhhh Choice Overload/Overchoice would like to have a word with you. I mean you jumped on the FOMO train so fucking hard maybe you should learn other core game system concepts.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    1. Again, mount is not content. It's irrelevant in terms of this discussion.

    2. No. Feelings aren't artificial. Pixels are. And I have 36 mage tower skins. I've done them all. And I still think its stupid it was removed.

    3. Nonsense. XIV does this right. There is no such thing as "overwhelmed" despite having thousand systems you could learn. One step at the time.

    You dont seem to understand yet again, that for game longevity and GAME VALUE no content should be ever removed (with exception of extreme cases). It discourage new players from even trying because so much cool shit was removed.

    BUT if devs regret adding something into game then they need to learn insight and think longer before adding something in game, otherwise its just FOMO. Short term profit, long term shot in foot.
    1. The mount is demonstrating that people wanted a tree, but when everyone has a tree, the tree has no value, so noone wants the tree.

    2/3. There is such a thing as overwhelmed, if you start WoW today, or FF14, or any old MMO, you easily have 10 000+ hours of old content to do, where do you even start? At that point not starting is easier, and you get what the poster above me said, choice overload. Something like the mage tower could be a good place to start though since that was going away, giving you a natural jumping on point.
    You also have to remember that you are not the only type of player around, there are many types of players, some enjoy content that goes away, some enjoy stuff you can grind forever, some enjoy hard, some enjoy easy. Why remove the option from one of these groups? It's a trivial amount of content compared to what is in the game.

    Also, you did the mage tower, 36/36 yeah? Why did you do that? Because you loved the content? Because you found all 36 weapons beautiful? No because it going away prompted you to act, sometimes having to act is a good thing.
    Last edited by Sialina; 2021-09-17 at 07:35 PM.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    Uhhh Choice Overload/Overchoice would like to have a word with you. I mean you jumped on the FOMO train so fucking hard maybe you should learn other core game system concepts.
    I play PoE. I do not consider "choice overload" is to ever be a problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    1. The mount is demonstrating that people wanted a tree, but when everyone has a tree, the tree has no value, so noone wants the tree.

    2/3. There is such a thing as overwhelmed, if you start WoW today, or FF14, or any old MMO, you easily have 10 000+ hours of old content to do, where do you even start? At that point not starting is easier, and you get what the poster above me said, choice overload. Something like the mage tower could be a good place to start though since that was going away, giving you a natural jumping on point.
    You also have to remember that you are not the only type of player around, there are many types of players, some enjoy content that goes away, some enjoy stuff you can grind forever, some enjoy hard, some enjoy easy. Why remove the option from one of these groups? It's a trivial amount of content compared to what is in the game.

    Also, you did the mage tower, 36/36 yeah? Why did you do that? Because you loved the content? Because you found all 36 weapons beautiful? No because it going away prompted you to act, sometimes having to act is a good thing.
    1. Tree mount doesn't demonstrate anything. Quite literally. People simply picked whatever they liked from choices presented. That doesn't suddenly make their fav mount.

    2/3. Its just a buzzword. You should be happy that you have so many hours of content. And if you ever feel like you are getting to much things to do, do them one by one. Its as simple as that.

    WoW is already extremely braindead simple compared to XiV not to mention PoE that was literally made to be extremely overwhelming. NEVER remove content. It won't make game better it will only make it worse, especially if done just to reap profits from FOMO.

    I did 36 towers because I like challenge, never used a single weapon appearance from it
    (well maybe aside from guardian druid but I dont play guardian so it was maybe couple of minutes).

    So you are wrong. I have missed FOMO stuff in the past like CMs skins. People did them on multiple characters.
    I only did it on one because challenge itself didn't change.

    Mage tower was different because even if scenario itself was the same, whole tactics was different.
    I had TONS of fun doing them for healers and spec I never played (mmoc clarifications: played any serious content with).
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I play PoE. I do not consider "choice overload" is to ever be a problem.

    - - - Updated - - -



    1. Tree mount doesn't demonstrate anything. Quite literally. People simply picked whatever they liked from choices presented. That doesn't suddenly make their fav mount.

    2/3. Its just a buzzword. You should be happy that you have so many hours of content. And if you ever feel like you are getting to much things to do, do them one by one. Its as simple as that.

    WoW is already extremely braindead simple compared to XiV not to mention PoE that was literally made to be extremely overwhelming. NEVER remove content. It won't make game better it will only make it worse, especially if done just to reap profits from FOMO.

    I did 36 towers because I like challenge, never used a single weapon appearance from it
    (well maybe aside from guardian druid but I dont play guardian so it was maybe couple of minutes).

    So you are wrong. I have missed FOMO stuff in the past like CMs skins. People did them on multiple characters.
    I only did it on one because challenge itself didn't change.

    Mage tower was different because even if scenario itself was the same, whole tactics was different.
    I had TONS of fun doing them for healers and spec I never played (mmoc clarifications: played any serious content with).
    1. The tree proves that something everyone has, has little to no value, so you are wrong.

    2. You didn't do the 36 towers because you liked the challenge, if you did, I want to see something else you did in every spec, any challenge, whole game, go ahead, show me.

    Also, Fomo is also a buzzword, so YOU are wrong.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I play PoE. I do not consider "choice overload" is to ever be a problem.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I play world of warcraft. I do not consider "FOMO" to ever be a problem.

    Do you understand why you can't handwave problems like this? The effects of FOMO are personal, not universal. Just like Choice Overload. The FOMO limited availability doesn't cause me stress, its a motivator just like how choice overload to some people is an opportunity to do w/e they want and focus on gameplay they like(especially in PoE).

    Worse yet is these 2 systems which can both cause stress or motivation, often can't coexist. As systems get added choices of content go up, and as content choices go up(assuming they are all desirable) choice overload goes up. So to prevent too many options of content type sometimes you remove some. The other option is to put a hierarchy of content types but then the ones near the bottom don't see much engagement. Balance in game systems is usually important for the best possible engagement levels from all player types(not saying blizzard has this balance correct all the time).

  14. #434
    I need Light BLUE version of mage tower glaives on my DH, not some shitty gear recolors. the bear is the only "worth it" reward tbh

    i dont get why does timealking has to be seasonal, why cant we just que any expac timewalking anytime we want? damn Blizz and the stupid timegating for everything..

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    idc about this shit I just want them to bring back the MoP hunter challenge mode set
    same, one of the few hunter sets that is an ACTUAL hunter set

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    1. The tree proves that something everyone has, has little to no value, so you are wrong.
    Nope, it doesn't prove anything, Its literally irrelevant to discussion so you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    2. You didn't do the 36 towers because you liked the challenge, if you did, I want to see something else you did in every spec, any challenge, whole game, go ahead, show me.
    Wow never had anything challenging per spec prior to mage tower. Or even after that.
    Or challenge itself was the same regardless of class/spec.

    I only care about challenge. So you are wrong again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Also, Fomo is also a buzzword, so YOU are wrong.
    Buzzword is excusing trash game design thinking it doesn't matter lol. Of course it matters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    I play world of warcraft. I do not consider "FOMO" to ever be a problem.
    Because you lack of insight. Just as game devs that now reap "rewards" of it. Just like every decision they regretted in the past is a result of lack of insight.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Nope, it doesn't prove anything, Its literally irrelevant to discussion so you are wrong.


    Wow never had anything challenging per spec prior to mage tower. Or even after that.
    Or challenge itself was the same regardless of class/spec.

    I only care about challenge. So you are wrong again.


    Buzzword is excusing trash game design thinking it doesn't matter lol. Of course it matters.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because you lack of insight. Just as game devs that now reap "rewards" of it. Just like every decision they regretted in the past is a result of lack of insight.
    Oh, oh, so you never did anything else in wow on all 36 specs, what a massive coincidence, you sir, are a hypocrite and you have lost this argumentation, the only reason you did the quest on 36 specs is because it was going away. You lost this argumentation, badly.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Oh, oh, so you never did anything else in wow on all 36 specs, what a massive coincidence, you sir, are a hypocrite and you have lost this argumentation, the only reason you did the quest on 36 specs is because it was going away. You lost this argumentation, badly.
    If you were talking about challenging content then there was none. Hypocrite, dont make me laugh Don't use words you don't know the meaning.

    If you are talking about any content then i literally did everything on every spec or class. For example I have couple of MoP cloaks, 3x dps ones 1 tank 1 healer. 13 WoD rings (hunter dupe as ally hunter has one as well). All class campaigns, all class mounts, 12 garrisons to maximum (for maximum profit), 13 class halls to maximum.
    Heroic raids on hunter, warlock, shaman, mage, priest, dk. Mythic raids on hunter warlock and DK.
    M+ at ~10 on every class, M+ keystone master twice on hunter and warlock during BfA.

    YEAH BUT U DIDNDU OTHER
    When a damn mage tower was the only solo challenge per spec lol. Everything else was not repayable enough to be different experience.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Because you lack of insight. Just as game devs that now reap "rewards" of it. Just like every decision they regretted in the past is a result of lack of insight.
    Really? you missed the obvious mockery I was making of your argument? You some how missed that wasn't my point? Because I tend not to use handwave style arguments against personal opinion styled effects.

    Then you bust out 'lack of insight' which is the biggest meme of hindsight styled arguments. Oh you got a negative result? Insight bro. Its legit meant to include everything but mean nothing constructive at the same time. In this conversation you actually have shown a lack of understanding of the impact of different systems to the point where you didn't even know one of PoE's core anxiety causers existed, while saying it was meant to be "overwhelming". (also NEVER remove content? How many ultimatums you run this league? When was the last time you ran an actual Synth map? No, I don't mean the unique maps but the collapsing ones you have to reach the end of.)

    You pretty clearly don't want to discuss things in good faith, you just want to slap your predetermined label on this topic and ignore the entire discussion as your mind is made up. Have a good one, I guess.
    Last edited by Elbob; 2021-09-19 at 12:00 AM.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentavius View Post
    So tired of this counter argument. Its not remotely disrespecting or devaluing those who earned it when current. They've had it to show off for years now and half of them did it later once it was made easier by purchasable legendaries etc anyway. For many, myself included, not having completed the MT is entirely based on time I had to play back then. I managed to get pathfinder finished and do the story elements but outside of that I barely stepped into the dungeons or raid (even on LFR).

    You may as well complain that iPhones get cheaper over time so yours stops being such a testament to your wealth or love of style over substance. At least I understand more the Elite PvP gear being exclusive, as at those ranks everyone is geared and its entirely skill based (well, that and playing the right class and specs).
    why do u think about a old iphone being cheap over the years is the same that removed content back after a time

    Temporary rewards motivate people to get them for various reasons, some just don't think it's worth the effort or didn't play at the time, it's a shame


    if you tell me that it is an event that occurs for 1 week only once a year, like other events, and you only have that period of time to purchase, then for me it's okay

    now want to put a reward that was announced as temporary and would never return, and that many people only took or did N things to acquire just to be exclusive to that period and then come back with the same rewards? for me its lack of respect and should not happen

    I do not say anything to return the content with new rewards, I believe it would even be a good idea, as the challenge mode/mage tower etc.
    the same reward after announcing it as exclusive? no thanks

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