Page 8 of 23 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Interesting. I hadn't entirely looked into the nitty gritty.

    I'm not going to make a judgment either which way on that, but I do know that the power we held in Legion with the different systems is not the same as now, so I'm wondering if they're adjusting for that or if it's really a nerf.

    Regardless, I do maintain that post-Antorus Mage Towers were an absolute joke of a faceroll, and I don't think many would defy me on that. With that acknowledged, I really don't see what prestige there is in those skins, other than "You had to be there," and I don't think playing a game at a certain point of time is any kind of measure of skill or overcoming any challenge.
    Well if it is indeed harder then I have to eat my own internet words which is impossible so if so, I'll eat a snickers instead. But, I doubt it looking at the numbers. But I'll have bar ready!

    Just think if they made it harder. Oh boy the forums. I highly doubt blizzard would take that risk on content thats literally gone and then revived.

    Personally I wouldnt make a fuss IF they make the skins obtainable again, I just dont think they should. It would open up Panderas Box and I dont think the devs want that. "Hey how about Amani War Bear, old Naxx and CM modes? Bring it back, or else!"

    And yes, it was indeeed easy in 7.3. I did my MM Hunter the first day so I got the achievement for getting it early which is cool in itself. I just think expansion features as current should give unique rewards.

    Talking about rewards. The artifact appearences we got from MT fits different tier sets and tints of them from the Legion raids. Seeing the new recolored Tier sets, maybe they make a TW tint of the appearences of the artifact weapon to fit those new sets? A compromise most can live with?

    We'll see I guess!
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-09-11 at 01:16 PM.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  2. #142
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    19,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    Legion Classhall sets were loosely based off MoP challenge armor sets. (It would've been nice to just have a recolour but whatever) Or multiple mounts ingame that were limited time and got recolour and released again. I think this is the easiest solution and least offensive. I wouldn't want them to put lackluster rewards for the challenges. Otherwise barely any incentive to go play it.
    Minor point of order, the Legion Order Hall sets were recolors of the challenge mode sets, without the particle effects and certain elements removed a la the difference between Heroic and Mythic raid sets.

    edit: @Doffen My (often nonfunctional) crystal ball says you might be on to something regarding MT arti reskins, sans particle effects like the lightning effect on Shattered Reckoning. An ensemble reward, then the 'ghetto arti recolor' reward (or vice versa), to give the content longevity and encourage players to do it on all three specs, rather than, say, paladins just speccing Ret and shitting all over the challenge by ignoring multiple mechanics and never needing to run through it again.

    Or they're hitting the "in case of emergency" button and bringing them back in full because things are a lot worse on the subscriber/engagement front than we think. I just don't see them only putting the armor sets in there, especially for hybrids where the challenges are wildly different between each spec, because they'll just pick the path of least resistance and never touch it again (defeating the idea behind bringing it back and putting work into rebalancing it for the substantial loss in player power since 7.3).
    Last edited by Thage; 2021-09-11 at 01:32 PM.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I personally have no problem with literally any of that, so long as it's earned in some way. Corrupted Ashbringer and Atiesh are kind of a difficult one there, though, considering they're content from something that would eventually be easily steamrolled solo after WoTLK. Any prestige they have isn't particularly from being difficult to get, considering people got them in TBC, but time-locked. If I believed in parallel universes where similar things happen with slightly different outcomes, I would honestly believe there's one where Blizzard never removed old Naxx in WoTLK and Corrupted Ashbringer and Atiesh would've been just as "special" as Thunderfury or Val'anyr is today.

    People honestly have to stop associating time locks with prestige tbh. The BfA pre-patch mounts are no longer available, but they were piss-easy to get; basically a participation award. Are they prestigious?
    Yeah thats the same with the pvp items though. Getting 2k is something anyone could do lets be honest. Sit down and play everyday some arena and you will get there eventually. The prestige is more from having played class X in season Y to get the transmogg gear. Same also for the challenge mode gear, just make it avaible now, no one cares anymore. Heck my gladi mount also wont lose value just cause everyone could get it now. Its the memorys of getting it not the thing itself.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Yeah thats the same with the pvp items though. Getting 2k is something anyone could do lets be honest. Sit down and play everyday some arena and you will get there eventually. The prestige is more from having played class X in season Y to get the transmogg gear. Same also for the challenge mode gear, just make it avaible now, no one cares anymore. Heck my gladi mount also wont lose value just cause everyone could get it now. Its the memorys of getting it not the thing itself.
    As somebody who absolutely loathes PvP, I really can't comment on that. All I know is that I think it's a shame so many good skins disappear behind elite rating. With 0.1% PvP experience, I decided near the end of BfA S1 that I wanted to get that Plate set because it looked so good, but I had no idea how to get started because I had such an aversion to any PvP activity.

    I would honestly argue for having there be a specific, strict rating requirement, be that 1800 or 2000 or 2200, and after that, you get a token that you can use to buy either the current season elite PvP gear or a past one.

    And sure, I think it would be cool if challenge modes returned and the armor and mounts with them. For me, having carrots to chase ingame for people willing to work for them is far more important and interesting than having them just locked away "because you didn't play back then."

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauzhi View Post
    Whats a casual?

    I'm a casual player, managed to get 3 aplearances for my shaman. Didn't had any alt because...its hard to gear up tons of alts and get 36 appearances with a casual schedule.
    Everyone has a different definition.

    Mine is:

    Someone who doesn't do organized (non queue) group content. So, you are never on anyone else's schedule. But that's just my definition, and as I said, I was 36/36 in legion with all gear from such activities.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Well if it is indeed harder then I have to eat my own internet words which is impossible so if so, I'll eat a snickers instead. But, I doubt it looking at the numbers. But I'll have bar ready!

    Just think if they made it harder. Oh boy the forums. I highly doubt blizzard would take that risk on content thats literally gone and then revived.
    I get your apprehension. Those seem like hefty nerfs, and I definitely wasn't speaking with those stats in mind, merely the hypothetical situation where they bring the challenges back but with scaling so it can't be overgeared like it was in Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Personally I wouldnt make a fuss IF they make the skins obtainable again, I just dont think they should. It would open up Panderas Box and I dont think the devs want that. "Hey how about Amani War Bear, old Naxx and CM modes? Bring it back, or else!"
    It's funny because while you think that spells disaster that you want to avoid, I would consider it great, because yeah, why not bring all that back, and the rewards with them? Imagine if people joining today could see somebody with challenge mode gear, and they ask "Wow, that's cool, how do you get that?" and instead of telling them "Make a time machine lol," you could tell them "Oh yeah, you level to 60, find a group of players and go to Pandaria and there you can queue for timed, challenging dungeons and if you score high enough, you can get this set, too."

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    And yes, it was indeeed easy in 7.3. I did my MM Hunter the first day so I got the achievement for getting it early which is cool in itself. I just think expansion features as current should give unique rewards.
    We fundamentally disagree then, but it's fine. And yeah, I did one Mage Tower challenge when it was more or less current, otherwise I kind of just went back during Antorus. 2-shot it in tank spec and I hadn't played tank that entire expac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Talking about rewards. The artifact appearences we got from MT fits different tier sets and tints of them from the Legion raids. Seeing the new recolored Tier sets, maybe they make a TW tint of the appearences of the artifact weapon to fit those new sets? A compromise most can live with?

    We'll see I guess!
    It's possible, but personally I don't see it as likely, especially considering the Mage Tower appearance already had several skins to unlock. No idea, though.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Regardless, I do maintain that post-Antorus Mage Towers were an absolute joke of a faceroll, and I don't think many would defy me on that. With that acknowledged, I really don't see what prestige there is in those skins, other than "You had to be there," and I don't think playing a game at a certain point of time is any kind of measure of skill or overcoming any challenge.
    It only made the ones that were already easy to do (like WW monk) even more easy honestly.

    There were still some that were absolutely suffering to do, like sub rogues.

    And either way, there was no point at which you could ignore mechanics to get them done, they were still tightly tuned in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    And yes, it was indeeed easy in 7.3. I did my MM Hunter the first day so I got the achievement for getting it early which is cool in itself. I just think expansion features as current should give unique rewards.
    Do you mean the achievement got timestamped early? There wasn't an achievement for getting them done early.

  8. #148
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    8,909
    I get both arguments. When they implemented them initially they said they'd be removed, so lots of players who pushed themselves to obtain them probably cherish the exclusivity, and I doubt Blizzard will reverse that decision as a result.

    Personally, if it's updated to still be challenging, I wouldn't mind one bit. I think the challenge is the important part, not the FOMO.

  9. #149
    Its weird to me that people are advocating for old stuff to be reintroduced when it should be new stuff available each time something like this comes around. 100 percent of the player base needs new stuff, you're going to get considerably less engagement by bringing back old stuff.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    Its weird to me that people are advocating for old stuff to be reintroduced when it should be new stuff available each time something like this comes around. 100 percent of the player base needs new stuff, you're going to get considerably less engagement by bringing back old stuff.
    I think it's more about bringing things back that shouldn't have been removed in the first place, tbh.

  11. #151
    ah yes, because getting any artifact skin was only possible for elite players, that's why I have all of them and yet didn't raid in Legion, only did mythic plus with friends for fun on the weekends and never did any high ones, and literally leveled characters from classes I didn't have maxed just to go do the tower. Especially during the last patch it was available you could literally go from getting max level to having gear good enough to do it easily in 1 to 2 days depending on your luck and if you had saved catchup gear on other chars like those tokens that you turn into gear that were account bound. Also at that point the weapon was in catchup mode and you could level it more in 1h than you could before in 4 months.

    I love when people cry and make up excuses for their own lazyness and/or skill level.
    The only "difficult" tower was the healer one if you had really bad gear. Every other was easily done if you just learned how it worked and put in some time to do tries/train the execution. All of them had tricks to make them easier, like specific builds or ways to avoid attacks, some were made basic by specific legendaries but that I'm not even counting because not everyone had those legendaries. Even though, at that point you could just choose whatever you wanted AFAIR...
    Last edited by m4xc4v413r4; 2021-09-11 at 02:26 PM.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by m4xc4v413r4 View Post
    ah yes, because getting any artifact skin was only possible for elite players, that's why I have all of them and yet didn't raid in Legion, only did mythic plus with friends for fun on the weekends and never did any high ones, and literally leveled characters from classes I didn't have maxed just to go do the tower. Especially during the last patch it was available you could literally go from getting max level to having gear good enough to do it easily in 1 to 2 days depending on your luck and if you had saved catchup gear on other chars like those tokens that you turn into gear that were account bound. Also at that point the weapon was in catchup mode and you could level it more in 1h than you could before in 4 months.

    I love when people cry and make up excuses for their own lazyness and/or skill level.
    The only "difficult" tower was the healer one if you had really bad gear. Every other was easily done if you just learned how it worked and put in some time to do tries/train the execution. All of them had tricks to make them easier, like specific builds or ways to avoid attacks, some were made basic by specific legendaries but that I'm not even counting because not everyone had those legendaries. Even though, at that point you could just choose whatever you wanted AFAIR...
    Is this an argument for or against bringing them back?

  13. #153
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Newcastle, UK
    Posts
    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Why do they need to make new rewards for stuff that are more than 3 years old just so people who didnt want to play Legion can now just log in and do an easier version of an expansion feature and earn those unique rewards that were relevant then? It does not make sense.
    It's not like they have to but they have created achievements for old content long after the content stopped being current.

    I got an ach for Winterspring Frostsaber years after I got it during Wrath and that shit was changed to a daily quest for a week or 2, after I had to spend months grinding.
    Last edited by Malania; 2021-09-11 at 02:48 PM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    So aparently they are bringing back mage tower but not artifact skins only some random recolours of raid gear

    this proves they learned nothing and 9.1.5 is another casual-hate patch .

    there is no hope for those devs they only cater to toxic elitest not to casual players

    Blizzard said at the end of Legion that they were not allowing you to ever earn those skins again - I am sorry op but you missed your chance at getting them. It would be like them bringing back the AQ 40 mount or giving people the title from the Green Fire quest - the prestige and glory from earning it while it was current content will be removed. Usually i'm the 1st one to jump on the blizzard hate wagon but this is not one of them. I always said there should be things in the game that should be badges of honor for those tho went through the content while it was current and while it sucks for those who did not earn them, its really too bad because everything else in this game can be earned by less skilled players in the future.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the irony when i have 36 skins

    but im not toxic d.... who cares about others having what i have

    sure - lets make more people play FF then wow just so you can feel special

    its pathetic on blizzard side - but fits well this pathetic expansion
    Are we pretending that FF14 doesnt have exclusive items as well or does Feast top 100 glamours no longer exist?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by TidalConflux View Post
    Are we pretending that FF14 doesnt have exclusive items as well or does Feast top 100 glamours no longer exist?
    God, the Feast is bad too.

    I'd argue Ultimates are actually more comparable to Mage Towers, though, being that they have challenges to overcome and you get special weapon glamour for it. Difference is that Ultimates are actually challenging while Mage Towers were comically easy for the most part after 7.2.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Heroic Night Hold, it came out about 77-91 days before Tomb came out (Mage tower was released in 7.2, Tomb 7.2.5). Funny though when it was released the mage tower was considered the elitist content where only the super pros could do it. The community didn't like it until Antorus when even in LFR gear most of the classes and specs could knock over the challenge by just looking at it.
    Blizzard openly admitted that it was not something designed to be done by the vast majority of the players when it was first released. That's why I mentioned normal Tomb of Sargeras. That was the point where gear would start to balance it out. But Blizzard applied the one rule that has been a constant in WoW since the very beginning... Good Gear Does Not Equal Good Players. It Just Hides Bad Ones a Bit Better.

    It depended on the challenge though. I did the tanking one on all classes except Monk and that one was definitely a pain in the butt. It took over 100 tries on DK. Druid and DH were much less. Pally was middle of the road and I cannot remember Warrior. The easiest by far was Imp Mother because the instance was flagged as being outdoors so not only did buffs like the Tree thing work there, but also, if the Command Center was up at the same time, you had those swarms of Welps that would just take chunks out of her. That was the bug I referenced earlier that they never fixed. That's why I was actually able to one-shot her as Ele Shaman. Of the DPS ones though, the BM Hunter one with the Fel Tauren and Worm was probably the hardest because of the one-shot mechanic so your interrupts had to be on point. The twins one had too many cheeses to it like the Shadow Priest Suicide one. I had some difficulty with MM Hunter because, while my kiting skills were on point, it was the fact that MM lost its mobility after Wrath until the final tier of WoD, and then lost it again for Legion. The having to start and stop to get some shots off tripped me up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I never implied you wouldn't happy. I'm saying as an owner of that gear that I think challenge mode armor sets have more value being a reward to chase and put in the effort for at any point in time than they have now and would be happy for you if you could pursue it today.
    But you ignore reality. Granted right now it is a single case... Survival Hunter. But say Blizzard completely changes another spec, or even reverts Survival back to a ranged spec. That would mean they would have to completely redo old content again to make it work. I would rather see those resources aimed at new content. It's the same reason why not being able to fly in Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, and the two Draenei Isles does not bother me. It's old content right now. If Blizzard were to integrate those zones into new content, then by all means redo them. Otherwise it's just a waste of resources.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    I say it like this. Pvp items can be made avaible for everyone. Elite sets arent that special anymore anyway since they are raid recolours. However only after stuff like corrupted ashbringer, atiesh, black bug mount and all the other special pve stuff is also made avaible for free
    Only one I would want to stay unique is the items so rare I doubt many wow players know they exist... that would be the costume toys awarded to the yearly winner of the blizzcon cosplay contest where they make their costume an ingame transformation item.

    While neat I think those should remain special.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    God, the Feast is bad too.

    I'd argue Ultimates are actually more comparable to Mage Towers, though, being that they have challenges to overcome and you get special weapon glamour for it. Difference is that Ultimates are actually challenging while Mage Towers were comically easy for the most part after 7.2.
    I would debate that pretty hard... when people say easy mage tower usually they all think feltotem the mage tower you can almost do naked (you can do it naked on a disc priest but the fact they have a dps challenge is lulzy enough)

    You have to substantially outgear mage tower for them to be as easy as ultimates.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Sin of Pride View Post
    I would debate that pretty hard... when people say easy mage tower usually they all think feltotem the mage tower you can almost do naked (you can do it naked on a disc priest but the fact they have a dps challenge is lulzy enough)

    You have to substantially outgear mage tower for them to be as easy as ultimates.
    You think FF14 Ultimates (TEA, UCOB, etc.) are easier than Mage Towers?

  20. #160
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Random
    Posts
    3,456
    How is this in anyway related to casual vs elitist?
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •