Mage tower is returning but without artifact skins

[Segus1992]

So aparently they are bringing back mage tower but not artifact skins only some random recolours of raid gear

this proves they learned nothing and 9.1.5 is another casual-hate patch .

there is no hope for those devs they only cater to toxic elitest not to casual players

Yes, casual hate. Anything that doesn't give everything in the game to those that never play is casual hate.

I'd argue that if Blizzard caved and gave the Mage Tower appearances that were said to be exclusive again to those that didn't do them during the many month window they were available, many more would complain.

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While it is true that better gear makes the fights easier, they're incredibly difficult regardless. It's a solo player skill check. That is absolutely casual content. Don't whine because you're bad at the game lmao

While I'm not exactly a terrible player, I got all 36 of the appearances, many of which were on classes I had little to no experience on at all, with (for the final patch) very average gear. 'Incredibly difficult' might be a tad exaggerated.

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I think they should put all the removed content back in, including the rewards, such as the legendary cloak, Challenge mode dungeons, incl. rewards, etc. Since they have the scaling tecchnology now, there's no harm in doing it.

The removal of content only makes people spend less time in the game, because there's less worthwhile rewards to hunt for.

Scaling content is never going to be able to ensure the difficulty stays the same. Time exclusive rewards also entices people to play while they're available. If they're always available there's no reason to do them while they're current, and people end up playing less as a whole.

[Yarathir]

Scaling content is never going to be able to ensure the difficulty stays the same.

Can't get much easier than SoO Challenge Modes and post-haywire artifacts Mage Tower unless they explicitly nerf the content into the ground.

And it kinda would if you just make a template.

Time exclusive rewards also entices people to play while they're available. If they're always available there's no reason to do them while they're current, and people end up playing less as a whole.

FOMO treadmill is weak game design.

[Lorgran]

The mage Tower IS casual content, it gives casuals a reason to gear up, I can state this definitely since I'm a casual and I have all 36 appearances from Legion Mage Tower

Tell yourself whatever you want, but you're not a casual (or you might be now, but you weren't during Legion)

[MrLachyG]

the irony when i have 36 skins

but im not toxic d.... who cares about others having what i have

sure - lets make more people play FF then wow just so you can feel special

its pathetic on blizzard side - but fits well this pathetic expansion

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you have the same leggo every guardian had to faceroll that stuff

luffas.

12 pages in and you still haven’t given a source for what you claimed in your opening post

[Segus1992]

Can't get much easier than SoO Challenge Modes and post-haywire artifacts Mage Tower unless they explicitly nerf the content into the ground.

And it kinda would if you just make a template.

Template is not the same as scaling content. It can absolutely get easier, as evidenced by how wonky the difficulty in Proving Grounds has been.

FOMO treadmill is weak game design.

Weak because it doesn't work or weak because you don't like it? Because it does work.

[Eazy]

Artifact skins shouldn't be obtainable. They were limited for Legion and that's totally fine.

[Mendzia]

Nothing should ever removed from the game.

So you still want to obtain realm first/Old School Ride/old Gladiator season etc. achivements too?
These examples are also no longer obtainable.

It's all about collecting items, mogs, achievements etc.

Not for me.

It's stupid wasting menpower for something limited just some people could feel special.

I do not like pet collecting and would want to remove this 'feature' completely.
So what?

[Yarathir]

Template is not the same as scaling content. It can absolutely get easier, as evidenced by how wonky the difficulty in Proving Grounds has been.

It is if you are scaled down to a template at any point, but yes, I know that's not traditional 'scaling.' Point is, there are plenty of ways to bring it back and make it more challenging than it was and keep it that way. And no, mage towers weren't ever prestigious after 7.2- no more so than the BfA pre-patch mounts were, and I doubt I'd find anyone calling those prestigious, lol.

Weak because it doesn't work or weak because you don't like it? Because it does work.

Weak because it doesn't actually keep people playing for the quality of the content, just pressuring them with time limits. It's an archaic crutch.

[Segus1992]

It is if you are scaled down to a template at any point, but yes, I know that's not traditional 'scaling.' Point is, there are plenty of ways to bring it back and make it more challenging than it was and keep it that way. And no, mage towers weren't ever prestigious after 7.2- no more so than the BfA pre-patch mounts were, and I doubt I'd find anyone calling those prestigious, lol.

Would you say Tier 3 is prestigious? There's hardly any prestigious PvE rewards in the game except the relatively recent AotC rewards. Mage Tower is the top of a very low bar.

[Yarathir]

Would you say Tier 3 is prestigious? There's hardly any prestigious PvE rewards in the game except the relatively recent AotC rewards. Mage Tower is the top of a very low bar.

No, I don't think tier 3 is prestigious. Nor do I think challenge mode sets are, or the of the Black Harvest title, or I'll go even further: Scarab Lord.

Mythic raid achievements right now seem like the closest to prestigious in PvE and Gladiator stuff in PvP.

So if your attempt was to go "Gotcha, then we should return all this other stuff too!" Then I'm gonna say "Sure, we should."

[m4xc4v413r4]

Is this an argument for or against bringing them back?

It isn't either, if you actually read it you would see that I didn't talk about that at all. This is an argument against people that make dumb excuses.

[Segus1992]

No, I don't think tier 3 is prestigious. Nor do I think challenge mode sets are, or the of the Black Harvest title, or I'll go even further: Scarab Lord.

Mythic raid achievements right now seem like the closest to prestigious in PvE and Gladiator stuff in PvP.

So if your attempt was to go "Gotcha, then we should return all this other stuff too!" Then I'm gonna say "Sure, we should."

Nah, I'm saying that since they obviously don't want to do that, it should be easy to understand they won't do it with this either.

[BicycleMafioso]

Oh, hey. This thread again.

I would love for the Mage Tower to come back. It was honestly my favourite time playing solo in this game, at least after they introduced scaling to old raids making them cake walks where, well, walks were the difficulty level rather than the long fights (which was the part I enjoyed).

I enjoyed the solo aspect and challenge of the Mage Tower immensely. I chose to do them blind, without guides or help. I figured them out by myself, severely undergeared in all but one of the cases (the final spec, Havoc, I even tried raiding to overgear, did not work. I had to wait until artefact overload happened to make it. And even then I needed 386 further attempts to get it.).

So I did not know the tips or tricks, I didn't know the "obvious" things until I discovered them for myself. One example I never figured out was that I could spell reflect the casts during the Prot Warrior challenge; so long had gone in PvE where this spell was actually used as originally intended, that I only used it as a blanket -magic dmg buff. It made it a lot more difficult to actually get to interrupt Kruul. Imagine my face when I read someone talking about it, after I had already attained the skin. Oops.

The one thing I didn't like about Mage Tower, was the limited time of the Mage Tower itself. Not the rewards, but the challenge. Farming that dumb currency over and over again, on 12 characters. Not being able to do the challenge again once you won. It going away in BFA altogether. That was a feelsbad.

I would welcome the Mage Tower back. The rewards? I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I don't like gate keeping or FOMO or any such attitudes. Things in games are for the players of the game to enjoy.
On the other hand, the other leg I stand on in this issue, why would they go back on their word on this specific thing, the one that I have? Why not Atiesh, Corrupted Ashbringer, Plagued Protodrake?Titles? Why not WoD or MoP challenge mode? Why is this one the one the entire* player base seems to think it would be okay to bring back?

I have some other exclusives, and them being exclusive means that I am emotionally invested in them and that they carry cherished memories. Deadly Gladiator title. Swift Zulian Tiger. Brewfest Ram (a mount that people don't even know about, nor know that it is unattainable). Original ZG items.

How should it be implemented then? Hopefully, with some level of timewalking scaling, so that the difficulty is fixed and not able to be outgeared or outleveled. And if that carries the additional bonus of not requiring me to actually level my level 50s to level 60, all the better! I didn't get further than 57 on my main anyway. Would not look forward being forced to raid. But I would also like the repeatable, challenge nature of it that a time walking scaling would create. And one that is far easier for Blizzard to tune.

[Sin of Pride]

Nah, I'm saying that since they obviously don't want to do that, it should be easy to understand they won't do it with this either.

I can easily see them returning it. As for the rest I could maybe see CM sets returning... I would love for gladiator stuff to be made available but I doubt they will allow that.

[Elias1337]

Can't get much easier than SoO Challenge Modes and post-haywire artifacts Mage Tower unless they explicitly nerf the content into the ground.

And it kinda would if you just make a template.

FOMO treadmill is weak game design.

Its not fomo. Its way to keep value to ingame rewards which this game have very very little. If you compare amounth of exclusive what actualy people care about vs rewards to what is there available to farm its super tiny minority of items. But somehow people get butthurt about that 0,01% of exlusive items but doesnt care about anything in rest of 99.99% of farmable items. I really wonder why. Oh wait i dont. Its obviously becouse those items are exlusive which is exactly only reason why all of you want it back. 'Stop acting like it has anything to do with those items appearance. You simply hate that other players have something you dont and thats it.

[fwc577]

I think they should put all the removed content back in, including the rewards, such as the legendary cloak, Challenge mode dungeons, incl. rewards, etc. Since they have the scaling tecchnology now, there's no harm in doing it.

The removal of content only makes people spend less time in the game, because there's less worthwhile rewards to hunt for.

100% Agree. All my toons have cloaks and Challenge mode dungeons done. I hated doing it on so many characters all those years ago, but if some of my new friends wanted to do challenge modes today with scaling tech to get the ports or gear or whatever, I'd be happy to help.

[crusadernero]

So aparently they are bringing back mage tower but not artifact skins only some random recolours of raid gear

this proves they learned nothing and 9.1.5 is another casual-hate patch .

there is no hope for those devs they only cater to toxic elitest not to casual players

Good. Gives people a reason to do it. Sucks you missed out in legion.

[Rendark]

If they're always available there's no reason to do them while they're current, and people end up playing less as a whole.

For some maybe but for others they will play less because they can't get it anymore.

[Yarathir]

Its not fomo. Its way to keep value to ingame rewards which this game have very very little. If you compare amounth of exclusive what actualy people care about vs rewards to what is there available to farm its super tiny minority of items. But somehow people get butthurt about that 0,01% of exlusive items but doesnt care about anything in rest of 99.99% of farmable items. I really wonder why. Oh wait i dont. Its obviously becouse those items are exlusive which is exactly only reason why all of you want it back. 'Stop acting like it has anything to do with those items appearance. You simply hate that other players have something you dont and thats it.

Okay, but I have done MoP CMs and the Mage Tower.

Now what?

"I have no argument and I must assume self-interest."

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Nah, I'm saying that since they obviously don't want to do that, it should be easy to understand they won't do it with this either.

Fair enough, but I think they should do it with all those things.

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It isn't either, if you actually read it you would see that I didn't talk about that at all. This is an argument against people that make dumb excuses.

That's exactly why I asked, though. Because it could've easily been one or the other.

[Freedom]

How the hell did this get past page one with no proof being provided by OP, let alone page 10? Are people that eager to discuss this that they believe the OP's baseless claim so easily?