BM M+ Legendary (9.1)

[Clash the DK]

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information between Wowhead and Icy Veins.
What is the consensus for best BM Legendary for M+ right now?

This is for my alt Hunter, so he's obviously behind. Currently using a 225 Rylakstalker with NF Covenant. About to craft a new max level Legendary. So I'm not sure if Rylakstalker is still best. Or the new NF Legendary is better now? Or if the Bag of Munitions Legendary combined with Necrolord is now tops for M+?

[Eapoe]

Hunter Discord is your best bet for information.
Last I heard, it’s Elder Antlers for pretty much everything if you’re NF.

[Jin]

Not that usefull when you pull more then 5 mobs, which often Happens in M+, while i would say discord is your best bet, be prepared for some elitist jerks there.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I got this from method.gg website:

LEGENDARIES
Soulforge Embers - Using Flare into Tar Trap dots up to 5 targets, it's currently the best legendary for every scenario. The downside of that legendary is the positioning of the trap, which makes your gameplay inconvenient. You can use a second Flare into the same Tar Trap.

Rylakstalker's Piercing Fangs - During Bestial Wrath, the pet's critical damage is increased by 20%. This is slightly worse than Soulforge Embers for single target, but more reliable since you don’t have to play with Tar Trap. It also scales well with critical strike.

In patch 9.1 we got 4 new legendaries for each covenant:

Kyrian: Pact of the Soulstalkers - gives 10% increased critical strike buff for the whole party for 10 seconds. This legendary has high potential to be played in raid but needs specific comp in order to out-dps other legendaries.
Night Fae: Fragments of the Elder Antlers - gives double the dmg of Wild Spirits when it hits less than 5 targets. This legendary is really good for high burst which is needed for this raid tier.
Venthyr: Pouch of Razor Fragments - with every Kill Shot proc it dots up to 6 targets for 60% of Kill Shot dmg for 6 sec. It gives more sustained dmg but still depends a lot on RNG and loses value on a single target.
Necrolord: Bag of Munitions - Death Chakram applies Explosive Shot on up to 2 targets. This legendary adds more burst every 45 seconds but 2 targets is too few in order to even consider switching to Necrolord at the moment.

Raiding
Night Fae - Fragments of the Elder Antlers / Rylakstalker's Piercing Fangs- depends if you can get the full value of Antlers if not go Rylak.

Kyrian - Rylakstalker's Piercing Fangs

Venthyr - Pouch of Razor Fragments

M+
For fortified weeks no matter what covenant you are, Rylakstalker's Piercing Fangs is the best choice. However, as Night Fae Fragments of the Elder Antlers might be a good option for Theater of Pain and Mists of Tirna Scithe.

For Tyrannical weeks as Night Fae Fragments of the Elder Antlers, for other covenants Rylakstalker's Piercing Fangs.

I think the Critical Strike legendary (Rylakstalker's) pairs extremely well with the Kyrian Covenant ability. I've seen a massive upsurge of Kyrian BM Hunters this patch.

[Aurora]

I've tried both and Antler's sims higher (~150 dps) and seems to be better in most situations for Night Fae. Noticeable increase in raids and marginal in m+.

I think it's close enough for it to be a playstyle decision with Rylak offering more consistency while Antlers has a higher ceiling but requires smart planning and placement for wild spirits.

[Fastlane_hellscream]

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information between Wowhead and Icy Veins.
What is the consensus for best BM Legendary for M+ right now?

This is for my alt Hunter, so he's obviously behind. Currently using a 225 Rylakstalker with NF Covenant. About to craft a new max level Legendary. So I'm not sure if Rylakstalker is still best. Or the new NF Legendary is better now? Or if the Bag of Munitions Legendary combined with Necrolord is now tops for M+?

This site gives information for every spec, of what the top 50 M+ players are using in their keys!
https://murlok.io/hunter/beast-mastery/mm+

[Puri]

Generally it depends on the instance and the affixes. If you do an instance where you constantly pull more than 4 mobs you want Rylaks. In tyricannical weeks with in instances with nasty bosses you usually want Antlers.
If you don't want to deal with the hassle you might want to simply use Rylaks, it does not focus all your damage into Wild Spirits where you are depending that the tank does not move the mobs out (because he is oblivious or because he has to kite or whatever) and thus has a more general approach.

[DazManianDevil]

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information between Wowhead and Icy Veins.
What is the consensus for best BM Legendary for M+ right now?

This is for my alt Hunter, so he's obviously behind. Currently using a 225 Rylakstalker with NF Covenant. About to craft a new max level Legendary. So I'm not sure if Rylakstalker is still best. Or the new NF Legendary is better now? Or if the Bag of Munitions Legendary combined with Necrolord is now tops for M+?

With the target cap looking to come off Beast-cleave in 9.1.5 I would place my bets on Rylak's as a long term investment in M+.
That being said, Antlers is clearly amazing for the duration of 9.1.
While Antlers is only good 1-4 targets, people often forget WS is target capped to 5, so saving it for "big AoE pulls" is inherently stupid, given that it doesn't actually do AoE.
I can't speak for every NF Hunter, but Dreamweaver Antlers is hard to beat. Solid 2min CDs for small packs, maw mobs or bosses depending on route, plus you get a pseudo cheat death with pod.

[Puri]

While Antlers is only good 1-4 targets, people often forget WS is target capped to 5, so saving it for "big AoE pulls" is inherently stupid, given that it doesn't actually do AoE.

Not quite right, only the AoE effect is capped to 5 targets. And with stomp BM has an uncapped AoE that triggers the primary effect of WS on every target.

[DazManianDevil]

Not quite right, only the AoE effect is capped to 5 targets. And with stomp BM has an uncapped AoE that triggers the primary effect of WS on every target.

Primary effect being Wild Mark, 5% bonus damage taken?
I hadn't actually considered the 5% boost to Stomp, so you're right in that it would do more damage on large packs, but the real value of Spirits being the GCD trigger explosion is still target capped, so hitting 5 targets or 20 targets isn't much different.
I'll concede your point, tho for the OP my original opinion that Antlers is amazing and currently out-performs Rylak's is still true. 9.1.5, I may sing a very different tune, we'll see.

[Bloodyleech]

Primary effect being Wild Mark, 5% bonus damage taken?
I hadn't actually considered the 5% boost to Stomp, so you're right in that it would do more damage on large packs, but the real value of Spirits being the GCD trigger explosion is still target capped, so hitting 5 targets or 20 targets isn't much different.
I'll concede your point, tho for the OP my original opinion that Antlers is amazing and currently out-performs Rylak's is still true. 9.1.5, I may sing a very different tune, we'll see.

If there are 10 targets, each one getting hit by stomp, you'll do 10 cleaves, meaning 50 instances of damage with one stomp. Atleast this is the way it is worded in the tooltip.
"Each ability hitting a target" means, for me atleast, when one ability hits 10 targets, it will trigger 10 times.
I can be absolutely wrong tho, but MM wouldn't have been that strong if this wouldn't be the case.

[Puri]

Primary effect being Wild Mark, 5% bonus damage taken?
I hadn't actually considered the 5% boost to Stomp, so you're right in that it would do more damage on large packs, but the real value of Spirits being the GCD trigger explosion is still target capped, so hitting 5 targets or 20 targets isn't much different.
I'll concede your point, tho for the OP my original opinion that Antlers is amazing and currently out-performs Rylak's is still true. 9.1.5, I may sing a very different tune, we'll see.

No, you're mistaken, a single event of hitting several targets will also proc the nature damage on more than the 5 targets. Just looking at a random log on warcraftlogs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...87&end=5841133 (just to add Wilde Geister=wild spirits)

[DazManianDevil]

If there are 10 targets, each one getting hit by stomp, you'll do 10 cleaves, meaning 50 instances of damage with one stomp. Atleast this is the way it is worded in the tooltip.
"Each ability hitting a target" means, for me atleast, when one ability hits 10 targets, it will trigger 10 times.
I can be absolutely wrong tho, but MM wouldn't have been that strong if this wouldn't be the case.

If I recall correctly, MM was only dominant in 9.0 with a bugged Serpent Stalker's legendary, as the application of SS was counted as an "ability used". Once that was hotfixed, MM damage fell off a cliff as far as Spirits is concerned. I can only speak from my own experience but the MM in my guild laughed off the hotfix, until he saw his damage during WS and I started to beat him on every single raid fight and M+ run. BM gang for the win once again /s

No, you're mistaken, a single event of hitting several targets will also proc the nature damage on more than the 5 targets. Just looking at a random log on warcraftlogs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...87&end=5841133 (just to add Wilde Geister=wild spirits)

Interesting, you've gotten me to consider crafting Rylak's and going into some keys to see for myself. +1

[Bloodyleech]

If I recall correctly, MM was only dominant in 9.0 with a bugged Serpent Stalker's legendary, as the application of SS was counted as an "ability used". Once that was hotfixed, MM damage fell off a cliff as far as Spirits is concerned. I can only speak from my own experience but the MM in my guild laughed off the hotfix, until he saw his damage during WS and I started to beat him on every single raid fight and M+ run. BM gang for the win once again /s

Yeah, but wasn't this just the ST-portion that got nerfed with this fix - as I didn't play MM, I don't know if this affected AoE at all (except the "AiS-tab-AiS" multidotting)? AoE MM Wild Spirits is still very strong tho

[DazManianDevil]

Yeah, but wasn't this just the ST-portion that got nerfed with this fix - as I didn't play MM, I don't know if this affected AoE at all (except the "AiS-tab-AiS" multidotting)? AoE MM Wild Spirits is still very strong tho

I seem to recall a video put out by Limit Max saying they only brought MM Hunter to Generals for the insane WS cleave on transition, and once it was nerfed their niche was gone.
Still good, but for a while it was absolute bonkers on that fight, since each trick shot empowered AS would also apply SS to each target, and each application of the SS would trigger the explosion.
But seeing as their logs are private and I haven't had access to them since 8.3 I'll just speculate.

[KrayZ33]

Pretty sure that's wrong.
I was Kyrian in the beginning, switched to night fae once it was fixed.

But Trick shot doesn't apply SS to each target, only the main target.

The bug was that SS would trigger wild spirits an additional time.

AiS -> SS = 2 triggers
This has been changed.

And in Beta, Rapidfire could trigger it with every shot.

[thunderdragon2]

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information between Wowhead and Icy Veins.
What is the consensus for best BM Legendary for M+ right now?

This is for my alt Hunter, so he's obviously behind. Currently using a 225 Rylakstalker with NF Covenant. About to craft a new max level Legendary. So I'm not sure if Rylakstalker is still best. Or the new NF Legendary is better now? Or if the Bag of Munitions Legendary combined with Necrolord is now tops for M+?

id trust icyveins over wowhead as the owner of trushot lodge updates icy veins regularly i dont know who dose wowhead, but yeh ask in class dic also sim it

[Lady Atia]

You always want to play with the NF legendary. From the Hunter Discord:

"A lot of people are confused about Antlers vs Rylak's for BM M+, because M+ is full of high target count packs which essentially means Antlers is not working which means it cannot possibly be a good legendary, right?

To try and fix doubts about this, I picked a high-overall BM M+ log in a timed Fortified Mists+20 key to try and represent something like a worst case scenario for Antlers since Mists has numerous large pulls where Antlers would not be working.

Findings

To calculate Antlers value on 1-4 targets, you can literally just double Wild Spirits damage and you're done, but since there were several instances in this key where Antlers did not work at all, I went through every individual WS and filtered out the ones where Antlers would not have worked, and then I doubled the remaining Wild Spirits damage to arrive at a theoretical Antlers increase of 5.1% for this dungeon.

Now, calculating Rylakstalker's benefit is quite difficult to do manually, but WoWAnalyzer can tell us the DPS increase of Rylak's in a given log, and it comes out to 4.17%.

So even in a key like Mists+20 Fortified which was timed and had 4 no-antlers wild spirits casts, and only 3 bosses, Antlers still comes out to ~1% more overall.

Additionally, when analyzing WS I was looking at the target count at the beginning of the pull, not taking into account the fact that often, smaller mobs will die in the middle of the pack before WS is over, actually giving you some Antlers value towards the end of WS when only <5 mobs might be alive still.

Now add the fact that this is the only dungeon with only 3 bosses and that it specifically has a lot of 5-7 target packs in the maze gauntlet before 2nd boss and so on, and you can easily imagine Antlers winning by even larger margins on other keys, and don't even get me started on Tyrannical."