Would you support a Classic+ Fresh Server?

[Martymark]

"You think you want this, but you don't." - J Allen Brack, disgraced and fired Blizz CEO

[Deathsenemy]

No. Wow classic is good because it was made by old Blizzard in the end of the 90s/early 2000s. Modern blizzard would fuck it up completely.

I would love a Classic+. Add in the content left out of original that I remember always being curious about. But like you, they would fuck it up. They would try to Retail it in to the ground.

[jellmoo]

No we shouldn't, but when attempting to recreate something in the spirit of another thing, yes, consensus on what "in the spirit of that thing" means is generally a good fucking starting point.

How, exactly, are you going to decide on any change at all without having common ground to stand on?

How do you balance Rogues? Which faction is getting better storytelling? Was that kast Raid good? Should Mythic + be dropping better or wrose gear? What's the next class that should be added? Should the next expansion be Light and Void or Dragon themed?

There is no such thing as consensus. You don't need it. Blizzard takes feedback and build s something based off of that feedback. Will everyone be 100% ecsttic? Of course not. Exactly how it's been with the game since day one. The concept of Classic + doesn't need magical consensus that no part of the game has ever had.

So you want expansion sized content without paying for it. Got it.

When did I ever say that? I literally never said that there wouldn't be a cost associated with it.

Continued development = Expansions, else there's no monetary value, and thus no chance of it happening.

Why? No really, why does it have to mean an expansion? There are a myriad of other ways they could tackle it. Make it a rolling patch release eith smaller incremental costs per patch, for example.

And yet..

Hubris: 1
Random Internet Poster: 0

Please, please explain to me how detailing my opinion is an example of hubris? BEcause I can very miuch explain to you how you trying to tell me that you know what I'm asking for better than I do really is.

And what kind of new stories?

Could you perhaps be talking about going to the unexplored world of Outland? Meeting the Blood Elf civilization and seeing how they've been? Maybe seeing Illidan and Kael'thas and what they've been up to?
Then maybe going to Northrend and tackling the undead problem? Even meeting the dragonflights for the first time in build up to yet another new story?

No. New stories. Not stories we've already played through time and again. Literally NEW stories. Fork the game at TBC. It never happens. WotLK never happens. The stories go in a different direction. Do you really not understand this point?

Because I could tell you where you could find that, but I think you get where I'm going with this. They've already built on Classic as a base. No, they never stopped designing WoW with the spirit of Classic in mind. What makes you think they'd do it any differently? You can't seem to answer this, or maybe you don't want to, because you know the answer is "They wouldn't." and you don't want to admit that.

Your inability to understand what is being asked for doesn't magically mean you've found the answer to the question.

It's ok buddy. We all have our issues, this just happens to be yours.

And sticking your head in the sand and pretending to understand what's being discussed is yours. A pity.

[jellmoo]

SNIP

What is to be gained by continuing this conversation? You either do not understand what is being proposed or you are wilfully attempting to distort it for no apparent reason. You seem to be convinced that this one singular thing requires absolute consensus in order to be feasible, when literally nothing else does.

You seem intent on putting words in my mouth. Or trying to ridicule the idea of DLC, because yeah, that's never been done before.

Why are you arguing here? If you have some ridiculous hatred of the idea of Classic +, that's fine. Argue that it would be a waste of resources. Argue that you would rather Blizzard do other things with their time. Argue that you simply don't like the idea if you must. But please stop trying to convince people that they don't know what they want or what they are asking for.

[Kauko]

Why are some people so obsessed with replaying the whole vanilla... ? Go play some other game, there are hundreds...

[Soimu]

Yes, i want a fresh start because i have made the mistake of starting on a pvp server when classic launched and by the time i realized my mistake it was to late to start over.

[Xalvia]

not with current blizzard, they would ruin it

[Ragnarohk]

Classic+ Fresh would mean everyone starts at level 1 and things are added as additional / new content in the vanilla wow client. More / changed raids, more / changed dungeons. Game mechanics added / altered. New zones, new lore, new quests etc. Game / class balance changes. More QoL things like AoE looting, larger stack sizes, etc.

-Yes
-No
-Maybe

For me, id like to see something like that. I'd make a character on that type of realm / game.

No

That would require a whole new team to develop new content. I doubt Blizzard will pour resources into it, and if they do, it would be at the expense of Retail.

Everybody wants something different and nobody would agree on what is "the spirit of classic" to start with. It's a phrase that keeps being repeated over and over and Classic just proved it wrong. Slowly adding QoL changes is basically going through the retail expansions, and that's fine.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I always vote for more WoW instead of less. So, yes, go for it. I have my doubts Blizzard of today has the capacity to generate content in the spirit of Classic for Classic+ but why not.

[Nak88]

After checking some polls on r/classicwow and r/classicwowtbc it is so clear that Classic Fresh is only wanted by a tiny but very loud minority.

[facefist]

Why would they make a new path from there? Classic is mostly dead anyway, other than 'new' TBC servers.

No, they're not going to make a Classic+, no how much people dream about it.

I have always wondered why people in forums so often have hard time to answer the question asked. This is something you rarely see in real life, but happens online all the time.

OT: I would probably enjoy such servers for a short time, so I support that idea even though I think its not financially clever for Blizz.

[akaTheDude]

NO, I prefer TBC over classic. Now if it was TBC+ I would be game.

[jellmoo]

I don't have to. You already admit that I was right.

Since I haven't actually done that... Okay... Sure.

There is nothing to be gained from this conversation. There's nothing to be gained from any conversation on MMO-Champion. What, exactly, are you trying with this other than deflecting that you do, in fact, have no answer to the questions I've asked - Which are VITALLY important in understanding what "in the spirit of Classic" means?

Because this question is utterly meaningless to the conversation at hand since it's already been answered many posts ago.

I understand exactly what it is you want. You want your perfectly envisioned World of Warcraft, built all over again from the ground up, magically following the perfect story that would make you giddy like a teenager again - What you call "In the spirit of Classic." Somehow, despite every directional arrow pointing away from that being a possibility, that's what you want, insist, DEMAND we discuss in this topic, and not how fucking silly it is to ask for that. Not how many different versions of that exist in the multitude of people asking for it. Not that every person would envision Classic+ as a different thing. Not how "in the spirit of Classic" is such a loosely defined thing that even ATTEMPTING to build any content around it would be a time bomb in every player waiting to go off once they decided it "wasn't Classic" enough. Not that the story building team that would do it would be the exact same story building team that "ruined" Retail, in your eyes, and how likely it would be that they simply ruin it again for you.

And, once again, you really prove that you haven't the foggiest fucking idea of what's actually being discussed, you simply assume something and roll with it despite people saying "No, that's not actually what we're talking about". Again and again, you assume you know better. Which is why this conversation is so utterly pointless. You simply continue with your intellectual dishonesty about the topic, continue to put words in people's mouths, and continue to pretend to be the smartest guy in the room.

Everything has been explained to you, yet you ignore what's being said and continue to insist that people are asking for things they aren't and have crafted this weird narrative of people 'demanding' things.

Yes, seeing as how you DON'T want to discuss any of that, I can see why this conversation seems pointless to you. What, exactly, do you want to discuss? I'm all ears, since I have no fucking idea what your ideal version of Classic is and how you specifically would want Classic+ to exist.

If you would like to have an honest discussion I would be more than happy to talk about what Classic + could entail. How it could be built, the structure of distribution, what sort of lifecycle it could have. But I have no interest in having a discussion if you are going to continually try and tell me I've said things I never did, not actually listen to what you're being told, or just in general be a giant dick about it.

I refuse. I will point out how silly your ask is and I will not stop until you stop asking for Classic+, or answer my questions. Because if you can't answer my questions, you have no business telling me I'm putting words in your mouth. I mean - You have no business doing that regardless. I've literally pointed out EXACTLY where and when you said what you said and why. You have repeatedly refused to respond when I directly ask you for answers.

List out your questions then and I will fucking answer them, because at this point I have zero idea what questions you are talking about.

I mean hell, you literally DIRECTLY misunderstood part of my post not more than a post ago. You straight up ignored a post of mine two pages ago. You then apparently tried - and failed - to find any posts from me when one exists only a PAGE BEFORE, IN RESPONSE TO YOU. You're not providing any revelations here that you're confused. But the fact is: You need a reality check. What you ask for is absolutely insane.

Maybe, just maybe, that's also on you for not being clear about what you were saying? And I don't remember missing a post of yours, but even if I did, I am not under any obligation to respond to every single thing you post. Sorry dude, I will reply to something I feel like replying to and not stuff I don't.

Please explain *why* what is being asked for is 'insane'.

[The Stormbringer]

So, I don't think this will ever happen, but I'll play along with the 'what if' scenario and answer: Maybe. It depends on a lot of factors. One would be the graphics, as modern graphics would help pull me in. Another would be Transmog and the Barbershop, as I like my characters to look good. If just about everything else runs with the Classic/Vanilla philosophy and plays like Classic did, but just with added content, probably, yeah.

Might want to add an actual poll next time, though.

[jellmoo]

Why should I try, yet again, to tell you why it is absolutely fucking nuts for Blizzard to follow one person's idea of what is good for the game? You've made it clear you've dug your head ENTIRELY in the sand. As far as you're concerned, they should just charge ahead and have no questions whatsoever about what "in the spirit of Classic" means - After all, YOU know, and that means Blizzard should just follow your lead, right? The potentially millions of people who disagree with literally every word that comes out of your mouth be damned!

Again, putting words in my mouth. I have NEVER said that. I've never implied it. I've never even hinted at this. You have created this weird head canon of a narrative that simply doesn't exist. To be perfectly clear:

- I am by no means, an arbiter of what Blizzard can/should develop
- I am not dictating what Classic development needs to be
- I am not dictating what a potential Classic + should be
- I am not attempting to direct anything, anyone, anywhere

All I am saying is that the concept of continuing Classic with new content would be cool. I would like that. I would be interested in that. I would like to see divergent stories, quests, characters and gameplay. That's it. I'm not dictating what it should be, nor am I saying anyone HAS to do this. This is just something that I personally would be interested in. And given threads like this one, I don't believe I am alone in this.

There's absolutely no point discussing. You're simply wrong. Nothing you've said is truthful. Maybe if you read my posts you'd see the questions you missed - But you have no interest in that. I know this because the posts are STILL THERE. You absolutely COULD go read them if you felt like it - And you choose not to. I'm not going to repeat the same exact things yet again.

I can't read questions that are badly formed, incoherent, or not even questions. And I have little interest in answering questions I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED.

You don't want an honest discussion. Why would I attempt to have one when you're not attempting it?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[jellmoo]

You're just the innocent arbiter of what "should" be in Classic+ by means of what's "in the Spirit of Classic."

Don't worry, you're coming across loud and clear. We got it.

Again. I never said that. I never implied that. I have no idea where you keep getting that idea, but it simply is not true. If that's what you think, then either I didn't explain myself well or you simply misunderstood. Let me be as crystal clear as I can possibly be here:

I, BY NO MEANS, CONSIDER MYSELF THE ARBITER OF WHAT CLASSIC + CAN/IS/SHOULD/WOULD BE.

I hope that clears this up.

Which is not how this discussion began whatsoever. You're being entirely dishonest.

You said that's what EVERYONE wants.

Again. I never said that. I very literally never said this. You even qupted the part where I very clearly did not say this. Please show me where I used the word 'EVERYONE'. Please. Point it out.

When I tried to argue that everyone wants something DIFFERENT out of Classic+, you rebutted, saying all of those things were the same. That everyone wanted the same thing, which was Classic+, and the details would be worked out later. This is entirely dishonest at it's core, and shows just how self centered your idea was to begin with - Everyone would just "get on" with what you had in mind for Classic+, details be damned. I told you so. Not a single person would agree on ANY direction to take Classic+, whether it be new races, new classes, new mechanics, new story, new ANYTHING - You'd never get a single soul to agree 100% on any new anything added to Classic+ as "in the spirit of Classic."

Again, Jesus Fucking Christ, I never said that. You are making stuff up because I think you may be having a different conversation in your head than we are having 'out loud'. All I said was that we did not need consensus, because like literally every other thing in the game, including Classic, there has never been consensus. All of this other narrative trappings you are attaching to this discussion is your weird home made smokescreen.

Then you had this hilarious exchange, where you stated these two things back to back and didn't even bat an eye:

Apparently you are suffering from memory loss, because then you forgot it fucking happened. Every time I've referenced it since, you've pretended it didn't happen. You directly told me "Don't tell me I'm misunderstanding what I'm asking for!" and then turned IMMEDIATELY around, and told me yes, I in fact, understood EXACTLY what you were asking for - And it was exactly the opposite of what you said previously.

Because context is important? Because they aren't actually at odds with each other at all? I don't know what to tell you, your lack of ability to understand what is being said isn't really my problem. I'm not going to attempt to answer a point of yours that isn't worth addressing because it doesn't make sense.

And finally, when asked directly multiple times:

You JUST SO HAPPEN to clip the entire answer and not bother to read it. Every time.

Don't pretend to be arguing in good faith. You haven't even given it an attempt.

There isn't a question there. What the flying fuck do you expect me to answer? It';s a rambling mess of random thoughts. It's verbal diarrhea. If you want somebody to answer a question, ask it. Directly. This is just your stream of conciousness flowing into a jumble of words. Of course I'm going to snip it. There's nothing there to work with.

You haven't answered SHIT. You literally cut every single one of those posts and responded to one TINY section.

You want a discussion? Have a discussion. Don't cry when someone tries.

I have literally answered every question you have asked. If you wish to ask more questions I will happily answer those as well. What I won't do is sift through a bunch of meandering thoughts, you constantly putting words in my mouth, or misrepresenting what I'm saying. If you actually want to discuss what Classic + could be, why I think it would be cool, how I think it could work, I'd be more than happy to have that discussion.

If all you want to do is bitch and moan, continue trying to state that I said things I never said, and stomp your feet on the floor and act like a child, then I think we're done here.

[crakerjack]

I’m not against a refresh classic, but I don’t think I’d partake. That being said, they shouldn’t waste their time making new content for classic. I could see them redoing classic and adding newer QoL changes like dual spec and reduced mount prices. I’d consider trying classic again if they added some QoL.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Why would they make a new path from there? Classic is mostly dead anyway, other than 'new' TBC servers.

No, they're not going to make a Classic+, no how much people dream about it.

Because everyone made a huge stink about the phrase "you think you do but you don't" in reference to Classic.
So which is it?
Do you want classic or not?

Classic is the product that is supposed to be the king of WoW and people spent immense time trying to convince Blizzard to support it, and now its just dead.
Like, log on a classic server now.
Chances are you will be one of less than 50 total players on.

That is not good, no matter how you slice it.
They should have never made separate products.

That's not how the progressing version of the game works, and that isn't how Classic into TBC worked originally either.

But anyway, at this point just pack up and move on imo.
This product clearly has a shelf life, so you are going to need to figure out a way to rerelease it every 2 years, or make the servers more sustainable.

My vote is just add all the content removed from Classic and TBC back into the modern game and be done.
Seems like a great opportunity for Chromie Time.

[Utrrabbit]

Classic+ would just be a retcon nightmare, they won't be able to add stuff to it without affecting the subsequent expansions.

If they ever want to make this i could see a seasonal thing with periodic server resets, but way too much work for something that's played by a fraction of the players when they have huge issues with the game as a whole.

No it would not. Cause it would stick in vanilla world and they would just add in stuff that they originally were going to. Like the raid that was supposed to be in SW. It would be vanilla with no new expansions and they would create new raida/dungeons in the vanilla world that had no affect on expansions. It would be a seperate world.

[jellmoo]

I’m not against a refresh classic, but I don’t think I’d partake. That being said, they shouldn’t waste their time making new content for classic. I could see them redoing classic and adding newer QoL changes like dual spec and reduced mount prices. I’d consider trying classic again if they added some QoL.

Out of curiosity, why would you say that it would be a waste of time for them to make new content?