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  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    It sounds counter productive I know but anyone who had a hand in producing torghast, covenants, renowned,conduits, the legendary system, domination shards, and the maw are better off not touching the game at all.
    Indeed. In some cases, at least, less is more, so if devs are hellbent (as they seem to be) on keeping the game as a glorified raid simulator, then they should better drop the most annoying and pointless features. Sometimes I think about coming back, but then I remember that I will have to go through tedious, cheap !@#$ like Korthia or Choreghast, shell out a metric ton of $$ to buy leggo bases, do the same 8 dungeons ad nauseam while raid is on lockout... Bleh.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    He's trying to say, "it's okay now, you can all come back, Blizzard has changed I swear".

    The mass exodus probably hit him very hard and he wants, no need people to come back to the game because he himself is incapable of leaving.

    You can see it very clearly, he's agreeing with everyone who has something positive to say while brushing off everyone negative as someone who quit years ago but who can't let go and come here out of hate.
    It's a pretty basic tactic when you want to paint a prettier picture, you make sure that every one knows that everything ugly isn't actually part of the picture.

    This is a "please come back" thread, not a back and forth. It's blind fanboyism, not a nuanced discussion.
    yes, ofc. but what he gets out of that? for him personally? no one is so stupid and believes he can „convince“ some inet jerks to come back, to save his beloved game (not talking bout me, i am still subbed at the moment, since 16 years, but it gets harder and harder… thats why I complain). and even when he convince every mmoc user its like a drop in the water. i cant really follow the rationality in that mindset, tbh.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Do you currently raid on 1 or 2 characters? Class design is pretty well balanced right now, so it would be a good time to get into raiding. The SL raids are also really good too. Lots of cool new mechanics.
    I dont play any characters in retail. I cleared Castle Nathria mythic on my resto shaman and quit after that and I only played resto shaman because there wasnt a single dps spec that was enjoyable. Castle Nathria was a bad raid and the new one looks bad as well.
    Also if a class is balanced has nothing to do with its class design. Its just numbers.
    The game is most fun when its not perfectly balanced btw. Just look at Wotlk, MoP and Legion.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    He's trying to say, "it's okay now, you can all come back, Blizzard has changed I swear".

    The mass exodus probably hit him very hard and he wants, no need people to come back to the game because he himself is incapable of leaving.

    You can see it very clearly, he's agreeing with everyone who has something positive to say while brushing off everyone negative as someone who quit years ago but who can't let go and come here out of hate.
    It's a pretty basic tactic when you want to paint a prettier picture, you make sure that every one knows that everything ugly isn't actually part of the picture.

    This is a "please come back" thread, not a back and forth. It's blind fanboyism, not a nuanced discussion.
    No you're completely wrong.

    Like I tell my employees all the time, life will always be better if you can find the positives in it, rather than always focusing on the negatives. They really took that to heart and now its a part of our company culture. "Always be positive." They are happier, more productive and my company is doing great.

    I feel that the WoW community as a whole would benefit more and the community would be much better if we reduce the amount of negativity towards the game, the developers and the company behind the greatest mmo of all time. Thats why I am engaging in dialogue with people who share the optimism. Optimism is contagious, and i'd rather have a community that is optimistic and positive about the game than a community that is always bashing it and calling out all the negatives.

    There are negatives of the game. I hope you don't think my views are all peachy and rosy about the game, but id rather focus on the things that are great, rather than the things that are not and build from there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    yes, ofc. but what he gets out of that? for him personally? no one is so stupid and believes he can „convince“ some inet jerks to come back, to save his beloved game (not talking bout me, i am still subbed at the moment, since 16 years, but it gets harder and harder… thats why I complain). and even when he convince every mmoc user its like a drop in the water. i cant really follow the rationality in that mindset, tbh.
    I'm not trying to convince anyone to come back to the game. I'm just being optimistic and positive. I'm happier when i'm positive and not negative all the time. Humans generally are happier just the same by adopting this philosophy.

    Stop focusing on all the negatives in life, and look and find the positives

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post

    Stop focusing on all the negatives in life, and look and find the positives
    I found a brand new "positive" for myself called New World

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    No you're completely wrong.

    Like I tell my employees all the time, life will always be better if you can find the positives in it, rather than always focusing on the negatives. They really took that to heart and now its a part of our company culture. "Always be positive." They are happier, more productive and my company is doing great.
    That is a horrible I mean horrible culture, ever heard of balance? You may as well lock yourself in a room with laughing gas it would make just as much sense. Congratz your employees are now scared of giving you bad news or focusing on it which could make you and the company better.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    That is a horrible I mean horrible culture, ever heard of balance? You may as well lock yourself in a room with laughing gas it would make just as much sense. Congratz your employees are now scared of giving you bad news or focusing on it which could make you and the company better.
    How is it horrible when my employees are happy and come to work with a great attitude more often than not? We foster transparency but we focus on what we are doing well and we constructively give feedback highlighting the positive aspects. Even if the news is bad, there is no need to point fingers, place blame, back bite, gossip or do all other manner of negative actions that create animosity and distain among employees.

    The workplace is a much better environment when people are treating each other with respect, and again, focusing on the positives, rather than the negatives. We adopted this culture about 3 years ago, and I can tell you, my company bottom line has seen a significant increase YoY. I attribute a large driver of that with company culture.

    So yeah, be positive and optimistic. You will be happier and more successful if you do.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    How is it horrible when my employees are happy and come to work with a great attitude more often than not? We foster transparency but we focus on what we are doing well and we constructively give feedback highlighting the positive aspects. Even if the news is bad, there is no need to point fingers, place blame, back bite, gossip or do all other manner of negative actions that create animosity and distain among employees.

    The workplace is a much better environment when people are treating each other with respect, and again, focusing on the positives, rather than the negatives. We adopted this culture about 3 years ago, and I can tell you, my company bottom line has seen a significant increase YoY. I attribute a large driver of that with company culture.

    So yeah, be positive and optimistic. You will be happier and more successful if you do.
    How do you know they are happy? you told them not to talk about it or show it when they are not.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    How do you know they are happy? you told them not to talk about it or show it when they are not.
    Nope, I never told them anything of the sort. I told them to focus on being positive. That doesn't mean they clam up and never express if they are happy or not. They have weekly 1:1s with their supervisors and are encouraged to talk about any problems they may be having, but the focus is on helping them improve those areas, and creating a work environment where they can accomplish what they need to in their job and be successful. The 1:1s tone is always positive, even if negative things need to be discussed.

    Getting rid of negativity in the work place does wonders for employee productivity. When employees feel positive, more and better work gets done. I assume you have never run a business with multiple employees, but if you do in the future, remember to be positive and be a good constructive boss / owner. Your employees (and bottom line ) will thank you. My employees net promoter score of their work environment has risen exceptionally since the shift in culture.

    So yeah, I think we are doing something right

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    No you're completely wrong.

    Like I tell my employees all the time, life will always be better if you can find the positives in it, rather than always focusing on the negatives. They really took that to heart and now its a part of our company culture. "Always be positive." They are happier, more productive and my company is doing great.

    I feel that the WoW community as a whole would benefit more and the community would be much better if we reduce the amount of negativity towards the game, the developers and the company behind the greatest mmo of all time. Thats why I am engaging in dialogue with people who share the optimism. Optimism is contagious, and i'd rather have a community that is optimistic and positive about the game than a community that is always bashing it and calling out all the negatives.

    There are negatives of the game. I hope you don't think my views are all peachy and rosy about the game, but id rather focus on the things that are great, rather than the things that are not and build from there.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not trying to convince anyone to come back to the game. I'm just being optimistic and positive. I'm happier when i'm positive and not negative all the time. Humans generally are happier just the same by adopting this philosophy.

    Stop focusing on all the negatives in life, and look and find the positives
    yeah i understand all of this (regardless if i believe it or not), but:

    why are you here telling us this ?
    whats your goal with this ?
    why you invest that much of time, just to let some internet jerks (you never will meet in rl) know this ?

    i mean, i dont ask the question „why post something on an internet forum?“. the answer is obvious. but you replied many many times in this thread and you obviously invested time. so there have to be a strong motivation. but what is this? and dont tell us, your motivation is to let some ppl know what game or things you like or why ppl should support that game. such things you do for 5 or 10 or 30mins of investment. before ppl realize „ok, not everyone has my opinion and whatever this leads to, i am way too lazy to keep going discussing opinions“.

    but you didnt just stop at page 3, as usual. so, whats exactly your motivation or hope what comes out of this or whats driving you ? i dont get it.

    its like telling some strangers on the street you are super happy with some new choclate cookies from subway. thats ok. but when you are running still 5mins later behind that stranger and still telling him WHY EXACTLY you are super optimistic with that new subway cookies, while the stranger said „i dont like cookies“ i start asking myself for the motivation behind this.

    above you just told me what you NOT do/want (convince someone). but WHAT do you do/want?
    Last edited by Niwes; 2021-09-15 at 10:05 PM.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Nope, I never told them anything of the sort. I told them to focus on being positive. That doesn't mean they clam up and never express if they are happy or not. They have weekly 1:1s with their supervisors and are encouraged to talk about any problems they may be having, but the focus is on helping them improve those areas, and creating a work environment where they can accomplish what they need to in their job and be successful. The 1:1s tone is always positive, even if negative things need to be discussed.

    Getting rid of negativity in the work place does wonders for employee productivity. When employees feel positive, more and better work gets done. I assume you have never run a business with multiple employees, but if you do in the future, remember to be positive and be a good constructive boss / owner. Your employees (and bottom line ) will thank you. My employees net promoter score of their work environment has risen exceptionally since the shift in culture.

    So yeah, I think we are doing something right
    I have two actually, I have also been an employee and have had "positive no negativity bosses before" then your business is successful thanks to very good supervisors. I commend you on at least hiring competent managers because I shutter to think what your company would be like if you had to manage everything. I hate to break it to you but you didn't get rid of negativity your employees are working hard for balance and kept you in your own laughing gas bubble for the good of the company.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    How do you know they are happy? you told them not to talk about it or show it when they are not.
    Yeah "company culture" can be a very dangerous thing. People should be encouraged to be themselves, forcing people to behave a certain way will wear them down over time and they'll hate coming to work but keep smiling because they're told to.
    If someone's true self is too much or too little you don't keep them around. There are other jobs where they'll be a better fit and they'll be happier for it.
    If someone has an easier time seeing negatives than positives you use that instead of trying to squelch it. They'll probably be great when put in a position where they can make improvements to the company instead, of being told to shut up and smile.

    Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity. Everything in moderation is the way to go
    Last edited by Echocho; 2021-09-15 at 10:08 PM.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    yeah i understand all of this (regardless if i believe it or not), but:

    why are you here telling us this ?
    whats your goal with this ?
    why you invest that much of time, just to let some internet jerks (you never will meet in rl) know this ?

    i mean, i dont ask the question „why post something on an internet forum?“. the answer is obvious. but you replied many many times in this thread and you obviously invested time. so there have to be a strong motivation. but what is this? and dont tell us, your motivation is to let some ppl know what game or things you like or why ppl should support that game. such things you do for 5 or 10 or 30mins of investment. before ppl realize „ok, not everyone has my opinion and whatever this leads to, i am way too lazy to keep going discussing opinions“.

    but you didnt just stop at page 3, as usual. so, whats exactly your motivation or hope what comes out of this or whats driving you ? i dont get it.

    its like telling some strangers on the street you are super happy with some new choclate cookies from subway. thats ok. but when you are running still 5mins later behind that stranger and still telling him WHY EXACTLY you are super optimistic with that new subway cookies, while the stranger said „i dont like cookies“ i start asking myself for the motivation behind this.

    above you just told me what you NOT do/want (convince someone). but WHAT do you do/want?
    Simply put, I feel that positive change in a toxic negative community has to start somewhere. The more positive threads, and positive discussion about the game that happens, and the more it drowns out the negative, the happier the community will be.

    Its just that simple.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Yeah "company culture" can be a very dangerous thing. People should be encouraged to be themselves, forcing people to behave a certain way will wear them down over time and they'll hate coming to work but keep smiling because they're told to.
    If someone's true self is too much or too little you don't keep them around. There are other jobs where they'll be a better fit and they'll be happier for it.
    If someone has an easier time seeing negatives than positives you use that instead of trying to squelch it. They'll probably be great when put in a position where they can make improvements to the company instead, of being told to shut up and smile.

    Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity. Everything in moderation is the way to go
    The way he describes it seems that people just keep him out of the loop because he is the always positive guy because it would be a horrible place to work otherwise. It's like having the joker as a boss both creepy and the opposite of positive.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I have two actually, I have also been an employee and have had "positive no negativity bosses before" then your business is successful thanks to very good supervisors. I commend you on at least hiring competent managers because I shutter to think what your company would be like if you had to manage everything. I hate to break it to you but you didn't get rid of negativity your employees are working hard for balance and kept you in your own laughing gas bubble for the good of the company.
    Agree to disagree

    My employees are genuinely happy. They do a good job, and they enjoy coming to work. And we provide means to help employees not only in their work life, but also to strike a good home / work life balance. They appreciate that.

    Its fun being a business owner though right? Tons of benefits of owning your own company.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Yeah "company culture" can be a very dangerous thing. People should be encouraged to be themselves, forcing people to behave a certain way will wear them down over time and they'll hate coming to work but keep smiling because they're told to.
    If someone's true self is too much or too little you don't keep them around. There are other jobs where they'll be a better fit and they'll be happier for it.
    If someone has an easier time seeing negatives than positives you use that instead of trying to squelch it. They'll probably be great when put in a position where they can make improvements to the company instead, of being told to shut up and smile.

    Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity. Everything in moderation is the way to go
    I have no time nor desire to employ people who constantly project negativity in the workplace. Those employees don't last very long, and its unfortunate.

  16. #476
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Glad you're feeling optimistic. I do think that this is probably the wake up call that Blizzard needed to go back to basics and that's great. The problem I have is that when I reflect on my time in WoW, I haven't truly enjoyed myself since MoP. There have been moments where I've had fun, sure, but for the most part I was chasing what I once felt for the game.

    I've been playing Final Fantasy 14 for the past 2 years alongside WoW and I've just found that the game is more in line with what I want from a MMO. I don't want it to demand my time, but instead invite me to invest in it's world. WoW hasn't done that for a long time and while these changes are a step in the right direction, they don't give me a whole lot of confidence that they'll make the right changes to spark my love for the game again.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Agree to disagree

    My employees are genuinely happy. They do a good job, and they enjoy coming to work. And we provide means to help employees not only in their work life, but also to strike a good home / work life balance. They appreciate that.

    Its fun being a business owner though right? Tons of benefits of owning your own company.
    Again how do you know? you sent the message I want to focus on the positive perhaps you don't remember the power disparity between employee and boss. You know what I get it it's really stressful starting and running your own company as it is without having to deal with other problems but you officially cut yourself off with your attitude. You should pray that your managers never leave your company or that you keep getting lucky when hiring new ones.

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    where they can make improvements to the company instead of being told to shut up and smile.

    Toxic positivity is just as bad as toxic negativity. Everything in moderation is the way to go.
    Those overwhelmingly 'positive' folks positively remind me of that Halloween episode of The Simpsons when Ned Flanders is the world ruler.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  19. #479
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Agree to disagree

    My employees are genuinely happy. They do a good job, and they enjoy coming to work. And we provide means to help employees not only in their work life, but also to strike a good home / work life balance. They appreciate that.

    Its fun being a business owner though right? Tons of benefits of owning your own company.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have no time nor desire to employ people who constantly project negativity in the workplace. Those employees don't last very long, and its unfortunate.
    As their employer you have no real clue on how they actually feel. Especially when you yourself said you fire people who are negative. So your employees are obviously not going to feel open to being honest with you. Actions speak loader than words, so while you may say that you want people to be open, if you fire people who say stuff you don't like, then they won't actually feel comfortable being open.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As their employer you have no real clue on how they actually feel. Especially when you yourself said you fire people who are negative. So your employees are obviously not going to feel open to being honest with you. Actions speak loader than words, so while you may say that you want people to be open, if you fire people who say stuff you don't like, then they won't actually feel comfortable being open.
    I rather have a negative employee than an happy employee who says nothing because the opposite of love isn't hate it's apathy. The people who are negative about WOW obviously still love and care about game otherwise they would not talk about it anymore and move on.

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