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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    He man's remake didn't fail because it's woke, it failed because it had a completely misleading marketing campaign and people didn't get what was expected. You'll note that She-ra, a show that dipped significantly into woke, did quite well, was greenlit for four additional seasons and considered successful enough to go from almost zero product development to quite a bit, including secondary comic books and the like.

    You yourself are currently using an avatar from a show wherein the bisexual creator was very specific (to the point of arguing with executives) about the protagonist being bisexual.
    He-Man was a bait and switch that went full woke. As for She-Ra of course it got green lit, all these woke shows continue to get seasons after seasons even if it brings on next to no views..

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Are you coming at this from a bad faith pov or do you actually not know?

    The batwomen series, the recent all girls remake of pop culture movies, Marvel(the hero), the he-man remake, the black widow movie. I mean i could go on and on.
    But that is my exact point. Something like ghostbusters did poorly because it was shit, not because it was woke. Captain Marvel is one of the highest grossing movies in the MCU lineup. Black Widow is one of if, not the highest performing movie released during the pandemic in most countries, and absolutely destroyed most other movies released this year (it is only finally going to be passed by Shang-Chi's release)

    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    He-Man was a bait and switch that went full woke. As for She-Ra of course it got green lit, all these woke shows continue to get seasons after seasons even if it brings on next to no views..
    He-man was poorly recieved because it was a bait and switch, not because it was woke. People did not like getting a He-man show that was not about He-man. She-ra was greenlit for a single season, it was then greenlit for 4 more because it did very well. Netflix has no problems canning shows if their test season doesn't perform well, or they don't have confidence a show can continue to pull numbers.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    I disagree with you 100%.

    BFA was actually a good expansion, and heres why:

    • Raids were fantastic. Some of the better raids the game has ever seen mechanics / astetics wise.
    • Character Balance almost perfect. From both a PvE and PvP perspective, classes had their strengths and weaknesses, and there were hard counters to certain classes, which made them interesting and fun to play.
    • Azerite Abilities. Chooseable azerite abilities that changed up the class gameplay a bit was a lot of fun, and theorycrafting the best ones was HUGE in the community.
    • Zones were fantastic. Its not really arguable that the zones in BFA were some of the best, most well designed zones the game has ever seen.
    • M+ seasons were varied and fun. Each season had a unique theme, and it fit within the context of the patches.
    • Islands. Not perfect implementation, but they were still fun, and rewarded fun toys, cosmetics and mounts. It wasn't meant to be a means to gear up and power up alts.

    Was everything about BFA good? No. But to call the entire expansion shit is just disingenuous and unfair at best. I think this is one of those cases of "show me on this doll where blizzard hurt you". You can't just say definitively that the entire expansion was "shit" when clearly there were things about it that was actually good.

    What about BFA do you think was "shit?". It was the proper south seas expansion the community wanted.

    What a bunch of crap from a blizzard employee desperate to do PR here

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    I disagree with you 100%.

    BFA was actually a good expansion, and heres why:

    • Raids were fantastic. Some of the better raids the game has ever seen mechanics / astetics wise.
    • Character Balance almost perfect. From both a PvE and PvP perspective, classes had their strengths and weaknesses, and there were hard counters to certain classes, which made them interesting and fun to play.
    • Azerite Abilities. Chooseable azerite abilities that changed up the class gameplay a bit was a lot of fun, and theorycrafting the best ones was HUGE in the community.
    • Zones were fantastic. Its not really arguable that the zones in BFA were some of the best, most well designed zones the game has ever seen.
    • M+ seasons were varied and fun. Each season had a unique theme, and it fit within the context of the patches.
    • Islands. Not perfect implementation, but they were still fun, and rewarded fun toys, cosmetics and mounts. It wasn't meant to be a means to gear up and power up alts.

    Was everything about BFA good? No. But to call the entire expansion shit is just disingenuous and unfair at best. I think this is one of those cases of "show me on this doll where blizzard hurt you". You can't just say definitively that the entire expansion was "shit" when clearly there were things about it that was actually good.

    What about BFA do you think was "shit?". It was the proper south seas expansion the community wanted.
    All of your positive points about BfA are very arguable. I give you the good to very good raids, but that's about it. Azerite was hated from the start of the expansion til the end. It got slightly better with Essences and 8.2, but it was still a huge sh*t show.

    The zones? Some were liked, like Drustvar or Zandalar, yes. But some of the best? No, not really.

    M+? It was just Legion M+ but worse for most people.

    Island were fun? Uhm... maybe in 8.3 when they upped the rewards and reduced the amount of time it takes to finish them, but Islands definitely were not fun in 8.1 and 8.2 unless you liked infinite grinding of the same mobs and places for the same objective again and again and again.

    Warfronts were a fail from the launch of the expansion til the very end. That's why we only got two.

    The narrative of BfA was sh*t as well.

    BfA became tolerable with 8.2 and 8.3 when they fixed most of the horrible design ideas they brought into the game, got extenstive feedback for, but didn't really care in alpha, beta or the first year of BfA altogether. None of the points you listed above except the zones existed in the 8.0 version of BfA. Everything was patched into the game at a later point.

    So... there's a reason why people considered BfA to be the worst expansion of all time - until they released Shadowlands, which is very likely to take the crown now.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2021-09-17 at 09:04 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  5. #565
    Btw @MoanaLisa isnt CURIOUS how


    KALOCY JIM can be scrambled back to I'M JAYLOCK ?

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    But that is my exact point. Something like ghostbusters did poorly because it was shit, not because it was woke. Captain Marvel is one of the highest grossing movies in the MCU lineup. Black Widow is one of if, not the highest performing movie released during the pandemic in most countries, and absolutely destroyed most other movies released this year (it is only finally going to be passed by Shang-Chi's release)


    He-man was poorly recieved because it was a bait and switch, not because it was woke. People did not like getting a He-man show that was not about He-man. She-ra was greenlit for a single season, it was then greenlit for 4 more because it did very well. Netflix has no problems canning shows if their test season doesn't perform well, or they don't have confidence a show can continue to pull numbers.
    Thats what the SJW woke brigade does, they take a beloved well established franchise and converts it, runs it into the ground before moving on. These shows follow the exact same format, Woman is the greatest at EVERYTHING and could do no wrong and all the man are worthless piles of shit and for good measure lets make them a Lesbian as well.

    Netflix doesn't care, it has 210mil subs right now, I highly doubt either show made any splash in the total numbers to warrant more seasons and the majoirty were already subs. Its self life was more likely due to its LGBTQ..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    Btw @MoanaLisa isnt CURIOUS how


    KALOCY JIM can be scrambled back to I'M JAYLOCK ?
    That's who this guy sounded to me like! I always read their posts in a Minkus voice and this is the 1st time in a long while I read a post in the Minkus voice but I could not for the life of me remember who started it lol.

  7. #567
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread is veering way off topic at this point. Return to the topic at hand, namely optimism about WoW in light of future content, as opposed to discussion of real-world politics and/or forbidden topics like gender identity.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    Btw @MoanaLisa isnt CURIOUS how


    KALOCY JIM can be scrambled back to I'M JAYLOCK ?
    Holy shit, it was right in front of us the whole time!

  9. #569
    wow is dead
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1 View Post
    black people have no power, privilege they cannot be racist since they were oppressed
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Men are NOT suffering societal hardships due to being male. That doesn't exist in most 1st world countries.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    This thread is veering way off topic at this point. Return to the topic at hand, namely optimism about WoW in light of future content, as opposed to discussion of real-world politics and/or forbidden topics like gender identity.
    Are we allowed to talk about negatives? Just want to make sure since toxic positivity is often brought into threads that critique the game and that seems to be okay.

  11. #571
    There's nothing to be optimistic about. The game will continue to decline until eventually Blizzard will no longer be willing to deliver quality expansion packs and instead focus on simply selling as many micro transactions as possible, eventually they'll shut down the servers.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    This thread is veering way off topic at this point. Return to the topic at hand, namely optimism about WoW in light of future content, as opposed to discussion of real-world politics and/or forbidden topics like gender identity.
    So only positive vibes no criticism?

  13. #573
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    So only positive vibes no criticism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Are we allowed to talk about negatives? Just want to make sure since toxic positivity is often brought into threads that critique the game and that seems to be okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    How is it running a discussion forum about a game that doesnt allow critisism of said game?

    Is this a North Korean version of mmo-c?
    A lack of optimism is suitable, sure. This warning was more to veer away from discussing specific users, completely off-topic arguments, and so forth. You can be optimistic about WoW, or you can be critical about it, or you can be critical about having optimism. But keep it focused on your own opinion without attacking other people for theirs.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-09-17 at 02:30 PM.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    This thread is veering way off topic at this point. Return to the topic at hand, namely optimism about WoW in light of future content, as opposed to discussion of real-world politics and/or forbidden topics like gender identity.
    How is it running a discussion forum about a game that doesnt allow critisism of said game?

    Is this a North Korean version of mmo-c?

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    How is it running a discussion forum about a game that doesnt allow critisism of said game?

    Is this a North Korean version of mmo-c?
    I mean it is allowed just focus more on the game directly rather then more meta issues with the company is what he is trying to say. That and tone down the infighting between users a little.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    Btw @MoanaLisa isnt CURIOUS how


    KALOCY JIM can be scrambled back to I'M JAYLOCK ?
    My head literally just fucking exploded.... the answer was there the whole time.

  17. #577
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    On top of Blizzard pulling the same ripcord the last 4 expansions because of plummeting subs, they're now going through and removing sexuality from female characters and the world. Blizzard: Giving Jaina a shirt to cover up her bust isn't going to do anything about your public image. In fact, it's only made it worse. People like sexy characters. They just want your employees to keep their dick in their pants and their hands to themselves.

    Blizzard has no clue how to fix its image, and it's only doing things to make it worse.
    The jaina thing happened a couple years ago because of China it had nothing to do with any of the current hubbub.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  18. #578
    I want to be optimistic as hell about the game but with everything going on right now and the state the game is in it's quite hard to be.

    I hope 9.1.5 is the start of them "we're listening" and not just a patch to make us forget what's going on.

  19. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfishcascade View Post
    Theres not a single thing to be optimistic about in retail wow and I doubt there will be for a long time
    Certainly not until 10.0 imo, and this time I will keep a huge magnifying glass on the beta.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  20. #580
    Not me. I've been a wow subscriber for 17 years. I started playing at a time when game time was reimbursed due to server instability and I watched, over time, as the development efforts slowly laxed. I played when the dev decision to minimize talent trees was made due to complexity, difficulty for new players to get started, and fluff talents being useless; and continued to play as they began to introduce the most complex, convoluted and cumbersome systems ever seen in the history of the game.

    During the Nathria raid, I submitted a forum support request because the Revendreth zone was lagged to unplayable for days for no apparent reason, only to get shit on by the wow "MVPs" only to have it finally fixed a couple days later.

    I waited for months for content to come to this expansion, while devs and engineers supposedly were working remotely or from home. Yet, previous expansion content with less modern-day technology used in development and collaboration cycles would pump out in swift cadences.

    Didn't we also see the world news articles plastered all over the world that Blizzard was vigorously hiring staff? Is this now the payoff from that? Where was the staff when wow subscriber numbers were skyrocketing because people were home all the time?

    Really the only thing that will make me come back is something outrageously spectacular, almost to the extreme as there being a World of Warcraft 2

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