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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Gotcha. You're 1 sub.
    He's not alone Jay. According to Blizzard's own api millions of characters have stopped logging in during 2021.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Makes sense. I suppose I agree with you on some level now that I understand the context. Maybe some of those systems can be eased up from the beginning of the next expansion. I guess I don't play a whole lot of alts that I really noticed much of the grind. I've always expected grind since its an MMO, but on my main, ive gotten basically everything I could want since i spend the majority of my time on that character.

    At least 9.1.5 eases up earlier, and come 9.2 you can have a bunch of alts ready for the new raid content.
    Aye that's something positive for Shadowlands at least, but for me to be positive about 10.0, I really hope they start off with that sort of player friendly system from the beginning. I'll be excited if they do, but I don't really expect it.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Aye that's something positive for Shadowlands at least, but for me to be positive about 10.0, I really hope they start off with that sort of player friendly system from the beginning. I'll be excited if they do, but I don't really expect it.
    Yeah. Gotta wait for 10.0 and see. They've fixed things mid expansion before, the real test will be if they learn their lesson, or if they put something players don't like on the ptr/beta and actually change it before it goes live next time.

  4. #624
    Id argue 9.2 is the real test. Prior to the scandalo, 9.2 was a re doubling down of 9.1. Remember ion desperately wanting to talk about 9.2 in his preach discussion about 9.1? I remember.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-09-18 at 02:25 PM.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Yeah. Gotta wait for 10.0 and see. They've fixed things mid expansion before, the real test will be if they learn their lesson, or if they put something players don't like on the ptr/beta and actually change it before it goes live next time.
    Exactly. I really hope they pull it off, as there's no game I'd rather be playing than WoW, but I've sorta made my peace with it if they don't manage to.

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Id argue 9.2 is the real test. Prior to the scandalo, 9.2 was a re doubling down of 9.1. Remember ion desperately wanting to talk about 9.2 in his preach discussion about 9.1? I remember.
    Was rather amusing... turned into ion showing his demented logic to try and salvage their shit systems.

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    Critic reviews are worthless, even more so when it involves an MMO or a "payed service" game. All I see is a bunch of shilling and a bunch of reviews that come across like a 3rd grader was writing a book report on a book they really didn't bother to read.

    Id love to see these critics stick with the game the full life span and report on the games progress every couple months and I guarantee their initial scores would not hold up.
    Thats what i told that mod before, critic reviews are worthless to a MMORPG compared to user reviews.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Thats what i told that mod before, critic reviews are worthless to a MMORPG compared to user reviews.
    And user reviews are useless when there's kneejerk reactions and review bombing.

    But by all means, continue your strawman argument.

    side note, a bit weird to claim "critics don't even stick with the expansion to give a proper review!" while letting users slide on their reviews that also came during the first patch, and are still coming out while the expansion isn't even finished, which still isn't a proper review.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    This is quite an interesting way of looking at it, i like it. Whenever a jury trial is in the news the thing I think is important is how long the jury deliberated. As that, to me, is an indication of how strong or weak the evidence is.

    I mean 57% of reviews are bad, whereas only 5.5% are good is quite telling.
    The date of the reviews are even more interesting, the majority of positive reviews no matter if user or critics is from 2020.

  10. #630

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    And user reviews are useless when there's kneejerk reactions and review bombing.

    But by all means, continue your strawman argument.

    side note, a bit weird to claim "critics don't even stick with the expansion to give a proper review!" while letting users slide on their reviews that also came during the first patch, and are still coming out while the expansion isn't even finished, which still isn't a proper review.
    Lmao, come on dude, you certainly know this is not really a review bombing when it comes to SL and metacritic, blizzard just got what they deserved, they asked for this, its customers were very paitent in all the years.

    We had some bad expansions, but this time the red line was crossed, enough is just enough.

    Here is some proper review bombing https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ma...rse_revelation

    lets skip the payed critics and go to he audience comment section:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ma...iews?type=user

    Also try to type this on youtube.

    Both different types of media, both got good critic reviews, both are hated by the audience with a passion.

    And both things did go woke, too. Shit hit the fan during this summer for wow, a game like wow cannot go woke it does not fit at all it will never work. The game is ruined.

    This will not end well, you know it, i know it.

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    They turned things around with BFA. Why couldn't they turn it around in shadowlands? And what "foundations" of this expansion are flawed, especially given the light of the recent changes?
    Did you play the same bfa and sl for that matter as all the other people that quit? If you've played the game for a long time it's hard to defend/justify much of anything anymore.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Lmao, come on dude, you certainly know this is not really a review bombing when it comes to SL and metacritic, blizzard just got what they deserved, they asked for this, its customers were very paitent in all the years.

    We had some bad expansions, but this time the red line was crossed, enough is just enough.

    Here is some proper review bombing https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ma...rse_revelation

    lets skip the payed critics and go to he audience comment section:

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ma...iews?type=user

    Also try to type this on youtube.

    Both different types of media, both got good critic reviews, both are hated by the audience with a passion.

    And both things did go woke, too. Shit hit the fan during this summer for wow, a game like wow cannot go woke it does not fit at all it will never work. The game is ruined.

    This will not end well, you know it, i know it.
    The only thing that is obvious to see here is your bias towards the situation.

    The rottentomatoes you linked literally mirrors the same kind of reviews that Shadowlands is getting. Nonsensical short comment of hate, and then a 0 review. Again, review bombing.

    All you're doing is being accepting of one side because it echoes what you WANT to hear, and then dismissing the other side with either comments that you cannot back up (paid reviews) or comments that also dismiss the user reviews but that's ignored (giving a review before the content is even done).

    It's not going to end well because you don't actually want to look at what's being said, the fact that you have to fall back to using the excuse of "Well it went woke!" tells enough, since you're falling back to a boogeyman phrase.

  14. #634
    I gave SL a zero on Metacritic.

    The game made me regret buying it and every hour I spent playing it. It made me regret playing at the end of BfA in preparation for it. In this way, it was functionally as bad as a product could be. How could anything else merit a lower score -- the game made me quit, AND it killed my dog, maybe?

    To me, the 10s are far less defensible.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    Get your COVID booster. It works so much better than horse paste.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The only thing that is obvious to see here is your bias towards the situation.

    The rottentomatoes you linked literally mirrors the same kind of reviews that Shadowlands is getting. Nonsensical short comment of hate, and then a 0 review. Again, review bombing.

    All you're doing is being accepting of one side because it echoes what you WANT to hear, and then dismissing the other side with either comments that you cannot back up (paid reviews) or comments that also dismiss the user reviews but that's ignored (giving a review before the content is even done).

    It's not going to end well because you don't actually want to look at what's being said, the fact that you have to fall back to using the excuse of "Well it went woke!" tells enough, since you're falling back to a boogeyman phrase.
    Explain why the majority of youtube streamers are tearing both the He-Man series AND Shadowlands apart? No bias at all, its the reality, you can just type in the YT search He-Man revelations or Shadowlands limit the search to the last 2 months and good luck finding any positivity. Its a shit show. Reception is worse than disney Star Wars.

    Today i searched for some clips on youtube what the best or most influencual MMORPG was....wow was never mentioned anywhere nobody likes to talk about it, outside of dedicated forums, i am pretty sure wow was very influencial and good back in the days, but now its a shame to even talk about it on some youtube channels?

    I am not the one living in a bubble.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Explain why the majority of youtube streamers are tearing both the He-Man series AND Shadowlands apart? No bias at all, its the reality, you can just type in the YT search He-Man revelations or Shadowlands limit the search to the last 2 months and good luck finding any positivity. Its a shit show. Reception is worse than disney Star Wars.
    As soon as you actually explain why their opinion is more valid. Remember, this is your point that "user reviews>critic reviews". My opinion was both are flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt, user reviews because people are prone to review bomb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Today i searched for some clips on youtube what the best or most influencual MMORPG was....wow was never mentioned anywhere nobody likes to talk about it, outside of dedicated forums, i am pretty sure wow was very influencial and good back in the days, but now its a shame to even talk about it on some youtube channels?
    What the hell does this even have to do with reviews? Nor does it have any semblance of reality. Took me 5 seconds to look it up on google and see multiple places listing WoW among the "Best MMORPGS 2021".

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    I am not the one living in a bubble.
    If you have to use the term "woke" to argue, I'd say you at least shoving yourself in a bubble to avoid hearing anything that dares to disagree with you.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I can see the zero, though I'm personally loathe to give out such a score because I figure there's always SOMETHING worthwhile about a game or expansion, particularly as regards WoW, like the art or soundtrack.

    That said, SL did also cause me to quit WoW and regret playing at all after Legion (my wife quit early in BfA, she saw the writing on the wall long before I did). The other two times I've come close to packing it up with WoW was late Wrath (saved by LFD) and late Cata (saved by LFR). Since those particular systems which enticed me to stay have been neutered and nothing offered in their place, BfA and SL are easily the worst WoW has ever been, for me.
    Maybe a 1 for some nice artwork in revendreth is fair. And also to make sure the rate counts.

    BfA had many flaws and felt like a degenerated legion expansion, but the art was again top notch and it greatest strength were big world pvp events along with beautiful designed world zones, while systems, game and class design were trash.The only strenght of SL is, it made me appreciate the other bad expansions more, you know those with design flaws and content cut, that could be still fun in one way or another.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    As soon as you actually explain why their opinion is more valid. Remember, this is your point that "user reviews>critic reviews". My opinion was both are flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt, user reviews because people are prone to review bomb.
    Review bombing is not only not bad, it's actually good. Those critic reviews are crammed into the top of the 0-10 range. User reviews that don't try to suck up to game companies don't suffer from that malfunction. They give a more honest measurement of game quality. And since all games can be reviewed bombed, it doesn't unfairly burden any game.

    The term review bombing is really just an attempt to delegitimize opinions that differ from your own.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    Get your COVID booster. It works so much better than horse paste.

  19. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Review bombing is not only not bad, it's actually good. Those critic reviews are crammed into the top of the 0-10 range. User reviews that don't try to suck up to game companies don't suffer from that malfunction. They give a more honest measurement of game quality. And since all games can be reviewed bombed, it doesn't unfairly burden any game.

    The term review bombing is really just an attempt to delegitimize opinions that differ from your own.
    Let's be honest, the negativity around review bombing was due to things outside the scope of the game.

    We hate this company's decision, let's review bomb all their games.

    ^ This was not only unfair to the quality of the game in question, it was downright juvenile in its approach.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Review bombing is not only not bad, it's actually good. Those critic reviews are crammed into the top of the 0-10 range. User reviews that don't try to suck up to game companies don't suffer from that malfunction. They give a more honest measurement of game quality. And since all games can be reviewed bombed, it doesn't unfairly burden any game.

    The term review bombing is really just an attempt to delegitimize opinions that differ from your own.
    Except reviewing bombing doesn't affect the critic review score, only the user side, so it shoots a bit of a contradiction into your idea there.

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