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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Gearing and itemization was almost perfect at the end of BFA.
    Lol, you mean after most guilds were 80-90% done with the progression they were told "now you can pick corruptions, go back to grind?" It was a massive spit to the face to basically force everyone to go back to the content they thought they were done grinding to "optimize" their corruptions. Basically the whole BFA was an exercise in wasting players' time. You got X? Now grind that content again because we put Y in it. For example islands. Fuck them. Every time I thought I won't have to see another island in my life they attached a new carrot to it. That's why if BFA turned anything around was my willingness to play this game. Seems Shadowlands is continuing that path.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    and 9.3
    oh my sweet summer child

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Positive changes of which 99% have been beta feedback and have been GLADLY ignored one year ago? They changed their mind because retail WoW is in shambles, not because they finally realize that their design philosophy is a fail since BfA.
    This, a thousand times this.

    Blizzard are a bunch of idiots who ignore all critical feedback for a whole year and only when the players abandon this sinking ship do they change course. They deserve nothing but contempt and not an ounce of praise for doing what they should have done a year ago. The only thing they're doing in 9.1 is fix their own mess they callously created.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Ah, the duality of the WoW community.

    Players: Blizzard, please make your game less shitty by allowing free Covenant swapping, removing Covenant energy, removing the AOE cap, making Torghast less of a chore and improving Legendary crafting

    ::Blizzard makes the game less shitty by doing all of these things::

    Players: lol just doing it for the PR

    Blizzard:

    don't forget about the people that try to defend everything

  4. #84
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

    I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

    Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?
    How dare you come to this forum and talk positively and optimisticly
    Just kidding

    I agree that the recent weeks were really positive in terms of transparency, communication and listening to player feedback.

    Personally, I still always have an optimistic feeling because the game is so complex and vaste that when a small part becomes not enjoyable for me as a playertype or because I do not like the art style, I just wait for the next xpac or a next content patch for different zones / new ideas and often it is enjoyable again.

    SL theme is better than the MaximumOrc WoD xpac but worse than Legion and Bfa for me. Since the we are currently in another dimmension I am really optimistic that the next xpac will be on Azeroth again most of the xpac duration
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  5. #85
    I think you are naive.

    This is fixing things that should have been fixed a year ago. Nowhere do we see a change in aproach to development of systems.
    In no way am i optimistic about anything changing for the next xpac or next patch.

    While i want to be hopeful, the main issue remains and we are still to see any change on it's aproach.
    Alts are still terrible on SL btw. You give them a win far too easily.

    Lets see how they handle set bonuses first huh? Cause domination gear and gems hasn't been going so well.

    I mean cmon... they are just reverting the screwing of the pooch they did by themselves. AoE cap? GCDs? Unpruning? It's not cause for celebration to have the game return to the place it was before Legion. We wasted 5 years in an unecessarely bad game. I am not happy about that, i'm pissed.
    They still have much to prove. Reverting decisions that should never have happened and adding a few customizations do not detract me from the fact the looting system is frustrating and their new systems are clusterfecks that do not take into accounts alts, off specs or peoples prefered playstyle (aka gems and domination gear force pvp'rs and mythic+ to raid).

    Honestly, it reminds me of Legion, the root of all these issues, which all ignored cause we got a shiny artifact weapon! Yaaaay!
    Be better. Learn.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-09-13 at 10:28 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Gearing and itemization was almost perfect at the end of BFA. The randomness, and cool effects from the corrupted gear, and changing Azerite armor was almost universally praised by the players.
    Is this some kind of joke? Azerite Armor and Corruption were hailed as two of the worst things Blizzard ever added to the game.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0.
    Oh no sisters... Who's gonna tell him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
    It's a Horde symbol but the middle part can also be called the "Eye" of the zone (AZSHARA), it's a play on words
    No, it is happening. The zone changed, it belongs to the Goblins now and is their home. Hearthstone is having a mechanical themed expansion soon, November's cardback is Goblin influenced and revealed concept art shows Goblin machinery. It's a HS expansion, sorry.

  8. #88
    I will have an optimistic view of WoW if 10.1.5 doesn't need to claw back all the shitty aspects of 10.0 and 10.1. Until then I'll just keep remembering all these easy wins they're putting out now have been begged for by the playerbase for ages and they've ignored us, or are merely repeats of past easy wins that they keep fucking up.

  9. #89
    I'm not feeling optimistic at all. To me all the recent changes being made give me that vibe of being done in a hurry only to stop the sub numbers plummeting and not becoming a new norm. That, plus for some reason I feel like they actually did have some list of "things the community is most pissed off about", which they only now decided to start crossing the things off of. A "break glass and do this to make the comminuty happier if things go haywire" kind of thing. I also can't resist the feeling that "under the hood" they still think like their decisions were correct but because of the whole situation, only now as an exception they're like "we think we're right, but here you go".

    My subscription recently ran out and I didn't extend. Not planning to play until the end of the expansion either.

    The moment when I may think about coming back is the announcement of the next expansion. If there's yet another temporary, borrowed power, convoluted system with arbitrary restrictions, I'm just going to pass. To me, it's gotten to the point where "no new systems" would be a valid selling point for a new expansion. Also, new expansion announcement is to me going to be a real test whether they actually listen to the community about the whole "too many new systems" crisicism happening ever since Shadowlands beta (alpha?), as the period after release of Shadowlands is probably the moment when they roughly decide what to put into the game for the next expansion.
    Last edited by jackk445; 2021-09-13 at 10:44 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    10.0 is the only real shot to make it popular again. And I think it needs to focus on making the game more social. More people talking to each other, in a friendly manner. For instance by making the guilds attractive to casuals.
    The problem is that "Social" is a playerbase-issue, the players (And gaming in general) changed since the early days of WoW, you can't force players into being friendly (They never talked much before, either), and at this stage of WoW's lifespan, they're better off catering to the players they have, not the ones they would like to have.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    They turned things around with BFA. Why couldn't they turn it around in shadowlands? And what "foundations" of this expansion are flawed, especially given the light of the recent changes?
    Here's the greater point - let's give your argument the benefit of the doubt and say that 8.3 was the absolute pinnacle of WoW. They still threw out all that progress with the next expansion and started rebuilding and rebalancing what are functionally the same systems. That's a problem. As soon as they get their wheels rounded, so to speak, they throw them out and reinvent them again, starting from a square. It's a bumpy ride for the players.

  12. #92
    It's fine to feel that way but i don't think praising the devs for 9.1.5. is the way to go.

    Either their system designers of the last 5 years where simply incompetent or they release broken systems on purpose to fix later, i won't praise them for either.

  13. #93
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    and... it's those people that quit the game that are now feeling optimistic about it?
    let them quit, since the big streamers abandoned WoW the toxicity in-game has gone down greately in my own opinion and i meet more like-minded players like myself just playing it for the cosmetics like mounts, x-mogs and pets.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Asked to explain, but instead just continues to not do so. You literally can't explain your blind hatred without resorting to memeing and use of vague things like "unfun".
    1. I never used the term "unfun."
    2. I do not "hate" WoW. Wouldn't be here if I did.
    2. "Unfun" is nevertheless a completely legitimate critique, and I find it telling that people that are still ardently dedicated to WoW think that you need to be able to quantify what "fun" is. Completely robotic and disconnected.

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord
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    The sad thing is you kind of have to wait until 10.0 to see how they handle things.

    Contrary to the ball fondling that Legion gets on these forums as of late, it was just as trash as BFA (maybe even more so) in how it handled it's systems. Pretty much everything was fixed at the very end, just like in BFA. BFAs biggest fault was following Legion and having horribly tuned Azerite traits on armor out of the gate. All in all, Legion/BFA/Shadowlands have had an approach of taking feedback and ignoring it until the end.

    Players aren't always right though. Just go back and look at how much people loved Torghast on beta?

    A lot of the 9.1.5 changes should've been in at the start, or shortly after 9.0 being released. My issue with Blizzard as of late is they invalidate the progress people make half way through a patch, by allowing everybody to catch up as quickly as possible. Why break your back grinding Korthia or doing Torghast every single week when a patch half way through the tier makes it way easier? Just feels like they're disrespecting your time. I feel especially bad for those who grinded AP in 9.0 to get cosmetic items given how awful it was to get AP.

    This isn't me saying Blizzard is going to get everything right either. Players are oftentimes wrong in the feedback they give and sometimes things don't work (it's fine to make mistakes). There are lots of things that should be fairly obvious though from both feedback and making the game feel better to play, and it just feels like as of late they know what these things are, but dangle them as features to be released in a later patch. That might have worked when we were all stupid in Legion, but dangling that for going on 6 years just isn't going to work anymore.

    10.0 will be the real test though. Somethings were fixed in 9.1, but that was nearly 7 months after launch, while the majority of the things that would've made Shadowlands a lot better of an experience aren't being fixed until nearly a year after release? Do you really want to continue a game that you pay a subscription to that has super infrequent patch updates and doesn't fix huge issues with the game until a year (or more in previous expansions?) after it's launched? I think people trying other MMOs right now isn't simply because other MMOs are better, it's just because people are growing bored with the model we are currently getting and aren't going to continue with the status quo that Blizzard has adopted since pretty much Legion.

    I think some of you are missing the point when Blizzard does patches like 9.1.5 as well. These are things we've wanted (and I wanted as well) since pretty much the beginning. Had they happened a few months in, I doubt many people would've grumbled that much, but all of this is happening a year later is the problem. You can't blame people for being annoyed about potentially losing a year of having the game in a better state. It's like the fun button isn't allowed to be pushed for a few patches.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Uvania View Post
    let them quit, since the big streamers abandoned WoW the toxicity in-game has gone down greately in my own opinion and i meet more like-minded players like myself just playing it for the cosmetics like mounts, x-mogs and pets.
    tbh kinda reverse for me. since the story campaign ended i see a lot more people with various types of bad attitude in LFR.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    The sad thing is you kind of have to wait until 10.0 to see how they handle things.
    Precisely. It doesn't matter how fantastic 9.3 is, just as it didn't matter for 8.3 or 7.3. If they're just going to throw out all that progress again and start over again so we can hope that the game is enjoyable by X.3 again... I'll pass.

    I was burned on this cycle during BfA - shame on Blizzard, for that. But I was fooled again during Shadowlands - shame on me for that.

    It's not going to happen a third time.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

    I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

    Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?
    I feel scorn that anyone can be so willfully blind as to be optimistic.
    Scorn and the dreadful exhaustion you only feel watching people commit to the same mistakes over and over again no matter how much you try and stop it
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.
    I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.
    Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?
    9.1.5 changes are fine, but it's mostly band-aids so the patient doesn't hemorrhage to death. The soonest you'll see any major changes is 10.0 - and this will be the actual, real test of WoW's new direction (if there's any...). You have to understand that listening to player feedback (given already in beta!) to appease the playerbase is the easiest thing in the world. Should they get any props for doing the easiest, most obvious thing in the world...? Personally, I'm doubtful.

  20. #100
    OP should have just made a thread titles something like, "Reasons to be excited for WoW's future" and not included a question for posters to answer if the answers they don't like are just going to make the OP buttmad.

    Also just to be clear:

    Blizzard doesn't (or rather--shouldn't) get credit for doing something that should have been done in the first place. Things people were screaming at them during the Alpha and Beta and not only were ignored, but told they were just flat out wrong. Only to now be brought into the game just coincidentally at the onset of absolutely horrific real life news and player numbers falling off a cliff.

    You do not get praise for undoing the awful gameplay changes you intentionally included in the first place.

    Now, if 10.0 comes around and they get a bunch of negative feedback about their inevitable new borrowed power system and then actually change it before the expansion launches? Then you can get credit.

    But not when this is the 3rd expansion in a row of them pulling this and then having to 'pull the ripcord' by undoing all the awful stuff and admitting, by their actions, that the testers actually were right all along. And then declare these changes with an air of, "Oh we listened guys, aren't we great?"

    They don't even just do this with the gameplay, but the story as well. I still vividly remember that interview where smug ass Ion Hazzikostas and Josh Allen were all but laughing at a question someone asked about adding in more Void Elf customizations so people could look like a High Elf on the Alliance and then their answer was, "Play a Blood Elf" and then gave a half-assed lore defense as the reason to not have them. But hey? Bad PR? Players leaving? Oh well now suddenly Void Elves are getting all of the things those people were asking for. Interesting that. I don't recall the story really changing in this regard to accommodate the new 9.1.5 customizations.

    I'm totally sure the story will address this, though.
    Last edited by Drindorai; 2021-09-13 at 11:52 AM.

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