I feel optimistic about WoW

[loras]

With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?

Not quite.
While there are definitely some positive changes being made many others persist, with no view of them being changed anytime soon.

Things like:
- Absurd prices for in game mounts that already cost reputation or something similar
- Absurd ilvl scaling that they bandaid with catchup stuff rather than a proper reduction (i.e. pruning of raid finder and mythic ilvl tiers)
- "Stiff" gameplay requirements; time-gating, daily/weekly requirements, absurd time investment demands
- Stacking of stiff systems (AND covenants AND soulbinds AND legendaries ... etcetera)
- Poor storytelling
- Uninteresting worldbuilding (Shadowlands) / lacking immersiom (also related to poor storytelling)
- Poor, clunky, unfun class design; many abilities (like Slam) make me wonder: "Why is this not just integrated into auto attack? This ability has no reason to exist as something active, it only exists to wear down my hands and to keep up pretenses."
- Discouragement of new blood: A lot of people get stuck on lacking gear, confusing systems and unintuitive / uninteresting rotations. Developers ought to remember that all this stuff needs to work for newbies without outside sources, otherwise they're just gonna ditch the game. (Especially DBM's semi-mandatory-ness is a big offender here; they ought to just integrate that stuff, give us some lore-friendly prescience explanation and standardise the effects bosses can have so that you could go in unprepared and succeed based on proper game-to-player communication)
- It feels disjointed, integrate it properly again into a single game rather than giving in to whiny elitists that demand their chosen form of play give the best-in-all cases loot
- Disappointing systems: Legendaries having no aesthetic or other flavor aspect, covenants lacking flavor as well (like they ought to give us some minor bonus or flavor thingy when we're dead elsewhere as well; we're clise to the shadowlands when we walk back to our corpses)

[odamienskii]

Just like flying mounts in 9.1 did not suddenly make WoW this crazy new fantastic experience, the switching of covenants and grindable thorgast in 9.1.5 won't change much either.

I don't think the reason you don't enjoy WoW has anything to do with these things.

I don't think a 9.2 with a new zone, a new raid, a new dungeon and some new story quests will bring many back. I don't think a 9.3 will either.

10.0 is the only real shot to make it popular again. And I think it needs to focus on making the game more social. More people talking to each other, in a friendly manner. For instance by making the guilds attractive to casuals.

In order to make the game more social again they have to take lfg out. the problem is the community isnt forced to be respectful by being lucky to find a good party, you make a lfg for any of the content and it fills within minutes of hundreds of players (mainly bad rerolled alts) Which gives a cycle of invite bad player > get frustrated > deplete key > repeat.

Good players feel a hatred towards pugging and casuals
Casuals feel a hatred towards good players because they are getting abuse when they can/cant get boosted.

All in all the community resents each other, good players will quit. bad players will just go and play with there friends.

There is way too many paths in wow currently for the better players that leave to unsubscription, its all the good players that blizzard have lost, not the casuals, the casuals dont care they are just here to have a laugh with there friends so whether the game is good or not doesnt matter, the only time they will start to realise the game is bad is when there friends are good and they are unsubbing. "where did all my friends go"

They couldnt progress any further because the majority of the player base are players that log in for raid and the first thing they say is "got feast" then they proceed to die repeatidly on every attempt of the boss while doing 3kdps in 250 ilvl gear. but thats ok! they are in a casual guild.... its just a game.

[Kapaya]

Is this your first expansion or what? It's the same shit every time: ignore feedback, end up doing the changes people realized months ago, expansion gets "fixed", promise to listen to feedback, repeat.

[Albertillo]

OP should have just made a thread titles something like, "Reasons to be excited for WoW's future" and not included a question for posters to answer if the answers they don't like are just going to make the OP buttmad.

Also just to be clear:

Blizzard doesn't (or rather--shouldn't) get credit for doing something that should have been done in the first place. Things people were screaming at them during the Alpha and Beta and not only were ignored, but told they were just flat out wrong. Only to now be brought into the game just coincidentally at the onset of absolutely horrific real life news and player numbers falling off a cliff.

You do not get praise for undoing the awful gameplay changes you intentionally included in the first place.

Now, if 10.0 comes around and they get a bunch of negative feedback about their inevitable new borrowed power system and then actually change it before the expansion launches? Then you can get credit.

But not when this is the 3rd expansion in a row of them pulling this and then having to 'pull the ripcord' by undoing all the awful stuff and admitting, by their actions, that the testers actually were right all along. And then declare these changes with an air of, "Oh we listened guys, aren't we great?"

They don't even just do this with the gameplay, but the story as well. I still vividly remember that interview where smug ass Ion Hazzikostas and Josh Allen were all but laughing at a question someone asked about adding in more Void Elf customizations so people could look like a High Elf on the Alliance and then their answer was, "Play a Blood Elf" and then gave a half-assed lore defense as the reason to not have them. But hey? Bad PR? Players leaving? Oh well now suddenly Void Elves are getting all of the things those people were asking for. Interesting that. I don't recall the story really changing in this regard to accommodate the new 9.1.5 customizations.

I'm totally sure the story will address this, though.

I've seen so many messages in MMO talking about how bad is the borrowed power that the recent expansions have, but i don't really understand that concept. I mean, we've been having Tier sets since the beginning of WoW which we just throw away when we finish a raid and get the Tier set of the next one. I think people is following too much what some streamers say...

[Huehuecoyotl]

9.1.5 isn't going to show that they've learned the important lessons, in my mind. Which is why I'm on the edge of cancelling my subscription regardless (I'm at the "why am I still playing this game?" stage).

They need to show that they've learned that layers of RNG don't make for a good game. That making a grind so ridiculous is not the same as making content that can last months (looking at you, mission table). That good gameplay is more important than engagement metrics (things you want to play >>>>> things you feel you have to). That they need to stop making content that they just throw away a couple of months later. That they have to find a way to bring all the different forms of content back to relevance (professions being the main one for me).

On top of that, I'd like to see something around making things account-wide by default. Expecting someone to level a long reputation grind half a dozen times on alts to get recipes for every profession is not good design. Especially if someone has come back from a sabatical and is trying to play catch up. Let's have account wide reputation, and an account wide wallet. If I want to grind something on one toon to use on another, why is that a bad thing?

Which brings me to my final point; they need to show that they've learned to stop treating players like the enemy. Too many design decisions feel like they do them deliberately to wind players up; like souls in the maw that vanish when you're 90% of the way through collecting them. Or the chests on Korthia that vanish when you've just about managed to negotiate the strangely slippery branches to get to them. There's no need for that, and they need to rethink how it ends up making players feel and behave. Because an angry player is more likely to react badly to other players, and we know how that ends up.

So no, I'm not optimistic, not yet. Love bombing us in 9.1.5 doesn't mean they've stopped being abusive.

[Accendor]

With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?

No, for me nothing changed. All the 9.1.5 changes are either way too late or I disagree with them (catchup mechanics).

I am dreading the return of the mage tower, because I just know they will fuck it up.
Everything in 9.1.5 is recycled content that I have played before and we are in a content draught for at least a month already, yet 9.2 is far, far away.
For me personally more than 70% of SLs lifecycle was waiting for new stuff. This expansion is just progressing way, way too slow.

Also I honestly doubt they can fix the story at this point.

[Tojara]

Borrowed power really isn't that bad. Technically tier sets are borrowed power as well, as were world buffs in classic WoW.

Systems that don't go forward wouldn't get nearly as much flak if they actually added other systems in the game that go forward with each expansion. I think people are borderline ill if they think something like corruption in 8.3 should have kept going forward into Shadowlands. I realize most people didn't like it, but corruption was a great temporary system in 8.3.. once they fixed it completely several months into the patch. The issue here is that most of the systems they put in place are great, but takes months or nearly a year to get right, then you don't get them going forward. Not getting them going into a new expansion is fine IMO, but having very little time to actually play with these systems because they're flat out broken or annoying and/or restrictive to play with just doesn't equate to fun.

That's the rub though. For far too long the game has barely evolved and stayed static. WoW has been in a "complete" stat for so long that the game doesn't really feel fresh or fun, nor does it feel like it's building on itself. Some of that lays in the fault of the game being out forever, while another amount of fault lays on the developers for not innovating. I like the classes I play, but I also don't like my class feeling almost exactly the same each and every expansion. Essentially there's little to look forward too.

[Accendor]

I've seen so many messages in MMO talking about how bad is the borrowed power that the recent expansions have, but i don't really understand that concept. I mean, we've been having Tier sets since the beginning of WoW which we just throw away when we finish a raid and get the Tier set of the next one. I think people is following too much what some streamers say...

You first day you do not understand the problem and then judge people who do understand it - gg

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Borrowed power really isn't that bad. Technically tier sets are borrowed power as well, as were world buffs in classic WoW.

Systems that don't go forward wouldn't get nearly as much flak if they actually added other systems in the game that go forward with each expansion. I think people are borderline ill if they think something like corruption in 8.3 should have kept going forward into Shadowlands. I realize most people didn't like it, but corruption was a great temporary system in 8.3.. once they fixed it completely several months into the patch. The issue here is that most of the systems they put in place are great, but takes months or nearly a year to get right, then you don't get them going forward. Not getting them going into a new expansion is fine IMO, but having very little time to actually play with these systems because they're flat out broken or annoying and/or restrictive to play with just doesn't equate to fun.

That's the rub though. For far too long the game has barely evolved and stayed static. WoW has been in a "complete" stat for so long that the game doesn't really feel fresh or fun, nor does it feel like it's building on itself. Some of that lays in the fault of the game being out forever, while another amount of fault lays on the developers for not innovating. I like the classes I play, but I also don't like my class feeling almost exactly the same each and every expansion. Essentially there's little to look forward too.

Just to point this out, they never fixed corruption and it was a terrible system from start to finish.

[Tojara]

Yeah in your opinion.

When they didn't make it completely RnG to get it, upped the sources it could drop from and added a vendor that you could apply every single corruption you wanted on your items it was pretty much fixed. The only issue with it was it was on rotation, but all of those previous changes I listed took months before they were implemented.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean everybody didn't like it. There are probably numerous things in the game from previous expansions you liked that I thought were dogshit.

[Sin of Pride]

I will feel positive about wow when I see an expansion that doesn't launch with terrible broken grindy systems. I'm not pulling the trigger on another expansion till I see them removed.

[Accendor]

Gearing and itemization was almost perfect at the end of BFA. The randomness, and cool effects from the corrupted gear, and changing Azerite armor was almost universally praised by the players. Nyalotha was extremely well done, and the quest daily content was engaging for almost the entire patch life. Also soloable content from the Stormwind and Orgrimmar scenarios was a ton of fun, especially when you did the max.

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If they implemented all the changes that players have "wanted" over the years, the game would be a complete disaster and would have lost much more players earlier on.

Were you completely drunk when you wrote this?

[Shockzalot]

Shadowlands is a turd. No amount of polish will make it shine. The very foundations of this expansion are flawed. Thus, only an expansion has the potential to change the structure enough to warrant interest from people who were turned off by Shadowlands.

I like the tone that these most recent changes set, but it’s impossible for them to “turn things around” at this point in the cycle.

Exactly. I'll be waiting out the next expansion, if it's another Cata, WoD, BFA or SL then that's the end of the road for this day 1 player. In SL I never did more than run five to ten M+ dungeons a week. Nothing compelled me to play and the game and all the covenant bullshit felt like a chore. It'll take a major shakeup in design philosophy to get players back AND retain them past the initial patch.

[Sin of Pride]

Exactly. I'll be waiting out the next expansion, if it's another Cata, WoD, BFA or SL then that's the end of the road for this day 1 player. In SL I never did more than run five to ten M+ dungeons a week. Nothing compelled me to play and the game and all the covenant bullshit felt like a chore. It'll take a major shakeup in design philosophy to get players back AND retain them past the initial patch.

I still don't get the WoD hate train. Remove the garrisons weekly raid reward and it seems a near perfect expansion.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Since there won't be any changes to class design and endgame systems, I've given up on SL in terms of enjoying the endgame.

I am hopeful for 10.0 though.

[Dracullus]

I will feel positive about wow when I see an expansion that doesn't launch with terrible broken grindy systems. I'm not pulling the trigger on another expansion till I see them removed.

This click 20 things quests and 1 hour of Torghast (for like 5 weeks) were indeed terrible grinds.

[Sin of Pride]

This click 20 things quests and 1 hour of Torghast (for like 5 weeks) were indeed terrible grinds.

Choreghast was awful and what hurts the most about that was it honestly was better on alpha then it was on beta and live back when they had more wild powers.

[Goat7]

With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?

You must be new to activision blizzard tactics? brand new, like yesterday.

[Dracullus]

Choreghast was awful and what hurts the most about that was it honestly was better on alpha then it was on beta and live back when they had more wild powers.

So you indeed think 1-2 hour a week (for 5 weeks) is terrible grind.

[Alterno]

I think people who says that they feel optimistic due a single change (which by the way, the community warned was needed even before the release of the xpac) without tanking into account the recent past. They pretty much do the same since they have introduced this kinds of systems. They need to take this system out of the equation and focus more on real content.

It seems for me that wow domination era has ended, it was a long run, but as they said "No king rules forever.". The sad part is that micro transactions it's going to get even worse as they will try to milk the remaining players as much as possible.

[Shockzalot]

I still don't get the WoD hate train. Remove the garrisons weekly raid reward and it seems a near perfect expansion.

It was a good expansion on launch, then it all went down hill from there. The first content patch was a joke and all the content that followed was awful, they rushed out Legion to quickly escape from that failed expansion.