I feel optimistic about WoW

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People whine about timegating but they've been exposed to it already, its just timegates they personally like despite the fact many hate on timegating.

[bledgor]

I've enjoyed Shadowlands, not my favorite expansion but a solid one. 9.1 was a solid first patch, enjoying the +20 push currently, and 9.1.5 has solid improvements coming (though honestly only a few will affect me).

Only thing I could really want from a .5 patch that isn't in it is a new pet battle dungeon/content. Dream come true would be a new pet "raid", or a successor to the MoP celestial tournament, or finally putting pet battles on a phone app.

[Atriel]

If you're legitimately trying to argue there's no difference between Tier set bonuses, which change every single raid patch, and entire expansions built around a single borrowed power system, then you're either so far out of the conversation that there's no point in continuing, or just so incredibly disingenuous that there's no point in continuing.

I'm curious, what exactly it means to you then, considering that a ton of the legendary powers we have this expansion are just re-used tier set bonuses from past expansions? Tier bonuses have always been borrowed powers, they are power changes to your class since as soon as you take the gear off, you lose it.

A lot of the really good powers from Legion artifacts became baseline or worked into class rotations as necessary. I'm not expecting much from the Covenant powers after the expansion since they are so thematically tied to the Covenants, but who knows, Ion said they wanted the abilities to be prevalent in some form after the expansion... so, who knows.

[Drindorai]

I'm curious, what exactly it means to you then, considering that a ton of the legendary powers we have this expansion are just re-used tier set bonuses from past expansions? Tier bonuses have always been borrowed powers, they are power changes to your class since as soon as you take the gear off, you lose it.

Because outside of very specific situations, tier sets change every patch. And if they don't, Blizzard was relatively quick to rebalance the newer raid tier gear to be better.

You have a piece of static gear now that you're never going to ever change beyond upgrading it another 20 ilevels every 6 months because it's the best for the entire expansion. What fun it is to just upgrade the exact same item slightly more for 2 years.

A lot of the really good powers from Legion artifacts became baseline or worked into class rotations as necessary.

Yes, Legion started this problem. I am not excluding it from my criticism. It's like everybody just forgot the criticism we all had during BfA when Legion removed all of its insane borrowed powers from the artifact weapons and Blizzard has scrambled to bring them back in new, more convoluted, borrowed power ways in BfA and Shadowlands now. Legion gets a pass from a lot of people for some reason but people will complain about stuff like the cloak or necklace and then just forget that Artifact Weapons were the absolute worst in this regard.

Legion started this awful trend. It just got a pass because it was the first time it was this blatant.

[bledgor]

I'm curious, what exactly it means to you then, considering that a ton of the legendary powers we have this expansion are just re-used tier set bonuses from past expansions? Tier bonuses have always been borrowed powers, they are power changes to your class since as soon as you take the gear off, you lose it.

A lot of the really good powers from Legion artifacts became baseline or worked into class rotations as necessary. I'm not expecting much from the Covenant powers after the expansion since they are so thematically tied to the Covenants, but who knows, Ion said they wanted the abilities to be prevalent in some form after the expansion... so, who knows.

I'm still of the belief we will get a new talent tree row with all 4 covenant abilities being the choices, with the explanation that because of our helping them they empowered us to carry it beyond the shadowlands.

[Atriel]

Because outside of very specific situations, tier sets change every patch. And if they don't, Blizzard was relatively quick to rebalance the newer raid tier gear to be better.

You have a piece of static gear now that you're never going to ever change beyond upgrading it another 20 ilevels every 6 months because it's the best for the entire expansion. What fun it is to just upgrade the exact same item slightly more for 2 years.

Tier sets were supposed to be making a comeback in 9.2, so we will have to wait and see how that is handled. Will it be even more stuff dumped on up with tier sets, legendaries, binds, covenant powers?

I'm fine with some borrowed power theme in expansions (I think Legion did it best), but BfA was the expansion that started the excessive system upon system dump that has come back more prevalent in SL.

[arkanon]

Bellular did a video about it if you care to know the truth. Data doesn't lie.

Sure you'll probably be able to spin it in a way where you can continue to believe what feels true to you. Everyone else knows that they lost half or more of their players so I don't think anyone cares whatever your personal delusion says.

Unfortunately, they are just hand waving it away as they dont consider it "factual data". As i have said before, people clinging on to hope are desperate to ignore that data because they dont like what it shows.

[Bee76]

With all the positive changes to the game coming in 9.1.5, I can't help feel optimistic about the game and the direction they are heading in with it.

I'm excited to see what 9.2 brings, and 9.3, and eventually a new expansion in 10.0. I bet they will plan some massive expansion for 10.0 to celebrate 20 years of WoW.

Do you feel optimistic about WoW and where its headed?

Well, a lot of problems were already present with 9.1 on the way. So there was no time to change that was i consider real bad 9.1 patch. And for me its a good news that 9.1.5 is even worse and underhwelming. It means for me they are working on somethin gbetter with 9.2 and dont waste to much ressources to somehow repair that 9.1 failure.
I said it before the release of 9.1, that the first possible patch that will be better might be 9.2 and im still conviced that they can bring something great for 9.2.

But 9.1...lol content. 6+ Week of daily grinding per char to upgrade your gear to norm raidlvl...yay....oh of course after the reknown timesink

So, yes and no. Im completly not exited about 9.1.5 to arrive, this is a garbage patch so far and underwhelming. But i have a lot of hope for 9.2

[arkanon]

What they're saying here is that after the release of TBC more people subbed to the game and they played a lot more than they did before the release.

"More people played our game AFTER launch than BEFORE we launched it!"

And the fans go wild!

[Kalocy Jim]

Unfortunately, they are just hand waving it away as they dont consider it "factual data". As i have said before, people clinging on to hope are desperate to ignore that data because they dont like what it shows.

We've already been through this. Claiming "data" that shows a decline in active characters played does not = subs lost. The only thing that can be reasonably extrapolated from that is that people are playing less alts.

There is not easy money mission table in Shadowlands, lol.

[Relapses]

"More people played our game AFTER launch than BEFORE we launched it!"

"All expansions should have just as many players as they did at launch for the entirety of their existence. If even one player unsubscribes, Blizzard has FAILED and we need to let them know they FAILED at every given opportunity."

Look, I can do that too!

[Drindorai]

"All expansions should have just as many players as they did at launch for the entirety of their existence. If even one player unsubscribes, Blizzard has FAILED and we need to let them know they FAILED at every given opportunity."

Look, I can do that too!

This is such a ridiculous caricature of what people are actually saying that it's basically just lying.

I can't believe people are seriously still not willing to acknowledge that something has gone wrong in the development of Shadowlands and are still denying people are leaving because of it.

[Relapses]

This is such a ridiculous caricature of what people are actually saying that it's basically just lying.

I just responded to obvious hyperbole with even more hyperbole. But hey, apparently if I do it I'm "lying;" if somebody with a negative opinion cites unsourced, completely erroneous data they're "telling an uncomfortable truth."

I ask again the same thing I did a few pages ago: How is any of this any different than a conspiracy theory?

[Drindorai]

if somebody with a negative opinion cites unsourced, completely erroneous data they're "telling an uncomfortable truth."

Loving that editorialization.

Someone said this a few pages ago but it bears repeating: Just because the data doesn't come from Blizzard itself, does not mean the numbers and the methodology used to find them are not factual.

I ask again the same thing I did a few pages ago: How is any of this any different than a conspiracy theory?

I'm not indulging in your denialism just because you can't come to terms that people are leaving the game en masse.

[Relapses]

Loving that editorialization.

Oh okay, I meant "random balding English YouTuber's meaningless, mostly incoherent rambling." Is that better?

[Drindorai]

Oh okay, I meant "random balding English YouTuber's meaningless, mostly incoherent rambling." Is that better?

Bahahahaha! Love that you were so upset you had to include this.

I don't even like Bellular and find his channel mostly clickbait bullshit, but that doesn't mean the data that he spent a good 30 minutes exhaustingly explaining how he came to is fake.

But if he makes people like yourself that upset that you're like having a 4chanish freakout and calling him bald, then that bumps him up a bit in my standing.

I would encourage you to play a video game, anything, that isn't just World of Warcraft. Not even another MMORPG, but just another video game besides WoW.

[Relapses]

Bahaha. Love that you were so upset you had to include this.

Upset? Since when did accurately describing a YouTuber become evidence of emotion? Projection much?

[Kalocy Jim]

Loving that editorialization.

Someone said this a few pages ago but it bears repeating: Just because the data doesn't come from Blizzard itself, does not mean the numbers and the methodology used to find them are not factual.



I'm not indulging in your denialism just because you can't come to terms that people are leaving the game en masse.

You don't have to have a law degree to understand that active characters =/= subs.

This is anecdotal, but I personally know players who had 50 active characters on their 1 subbed account because they were exploiting alt usage to make gold. I've known several others who are simply altoholics that have the compulsive need to have 12 characters, 1 of each class to have gear and viable in an expansion.

Just because people for <insert reason here> are not playing multiple alts, doesn't mean the game is dying, they are hemorrhaging subs, or in any sort of free fall decline.

Again, stop using "data" to back up your false narrative. And in any case, why would you? What point or purpose of "proving" that there has been a sub loss do for you? Is it to just stroke your ego and say "hah i told you so!"? I don't get on why you are so hellbent on showing the world (more specifically people on this forum) that the game is / has lost subs. You might want to go outside sometimes, get some nice fresh air.

[arkanon]

We've already been through this. Claiming "data" that shows a decline in active characters played does not = subs lost. The only thing that can be reasonably extrapolated from that is that people are playing less alts.

There is not easy money mission table in Shadowlands, lol.

So you believe that people are LESS likely to play a second or third character LATER in an expansion that at launch? I ask because my experience is that people play MORE alts, and do more content on those alts as catchup gear comes in, and as they are able to gear them more quickly. They also tend to get "bored" of their main and start trying other classes out.

- - - Updated - - -

This is anecdotal, but I personally know players who had 50 active characters on their 1 subbed account because they were exploiting alt usage to make gold. I've known several others who are simply altoholics that have the compulsive need to have 12 characters, 1 of each class to have gear and viable in an expansion.

Wow! that means the subs might be far lower than we thought, most of the data i have seen is based on 1-3 characters per account. But 12-50? thats crazy.

[Drindorai]

It always amazes me when WoW fanboys think people are critical of the game just to...stroke our egos? As if WoW failing does anything for me.

They can never imagine in their bubble that perhaps people are pointing out the current direction of the game is bad, and people are thus leaving, in hopes of Blizzard actually fucking listening for once and changing things.

Sure, there are a small subset of people like Heelvsbabyface who have a financial incentive to constantly speak negatively about the game. It's how he makes his Youtube earnings. Even Bellular, when he does criticize WoW, does a wild and often hypocritical swing back to insane positivity any time a single thing is changed that he wanted. It's why I generally don't like his content. But shockingly someone I don't like can make a good point.

But yes, random forum posters are doing it because...it boosts our ego. You caught us. In 4k no less.

Definitely isn't because we once loved the game and want it to get better. The people who truly don't care about WoW have left and don't talk about it anymore.

Goddamn.