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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Psychotrip's Avatar
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    What's an aspect of the "new" lore that still confuses you?

    This started as a reddit post and it got pretty popular so I thought I'd share it here:

    TL;DR What are some aspects of WoW's newer lore that still confuses you? How can we explain it? Is it even worth trying? Or should we just accept that we've effectively been in a new universe since the end of Legion?

    As the title says, I'm curious about certain aspects of wow's newer lore, particularly the things that directly contradict what we THOUGHT we knew about the universe.

    I was an avid rper in WoW until a couple years ago when Chronicle came out. In my opinion, it just changed so many core aspects of the lore that I kind of stopped caring about it. Still, every now and then I poke my head back in just to catch up on the lore. It only seems to have gotten more confusing.

    Obviously, Warcraft is no stranger to retcons, but the core worldbuilding was pretty stable between WC3 until around Legion. I feel like the "cosmic forces" introduced in Chronicle really threw everything off the rails, at least for me.

    But if I had to narrow down the things that make me scratch my head, it would have to be the new lore on Arcane magic, and how its portrayed as a force of order and the opposite of Fel magic.

    Arcane magic was portrayed as chaotic from the RTS games until at least Legion. It was actually a core part of the lore. Originally, it was described as pure magic from the Nether, with Fel being Arcane in either its most corrupt or its purest form (depending on your perspective). This is expanded upon in the now non-canon WoW RPG, but playing WoW classic makes it very clear that the magic lore was intended to be canon.

    This is why Archimonde mocks Dalaran for "stealing our fire", its the original reason why demons are attracted to the arcane (they're sustained by it), it's why Dalaran kept getting attacked by demons and why the Guardians Of Tirisfal formed, its why various arcane themed bosses are chaotic in nature (Anomalous, for example), and why its described as being addictive and mutagenic. Its why mages were described in vanilla wow as drawing their powers from the nether.

    The arcane makes no sense as a force of order. Its just a lazy retcon so they could establish this new "cosmic force" nonsense. Maybe they just dont have the nuance to explain why titans utilize it as well? It just contradicts so many aspects of classic wow lore that its hard to rationalize.

    Even the wowpedia article borders on nonsense at this point, waffling between describing it as volatile, unstable, orderly, or simply as pure magic (which begs the question of what magic even IS now in this post cosmic force lore).

    Speaking of which, I also find myself wondering exactly what separates these cosmic forces aside from aesthetics.

    Death seems pretty lively, and more centered on domination than the act of not being alive (what does death even mean aside from existing in the shadowlands)? How is UNdeath a force of death? Isnt it a middle ground between life and death? If necromancy is simply death magic, then why are so many of its spells disease-based? Diseases are living things. Death magic literally creates life.

    Life seems pretty deadly if you consider Elune as a life goddess (in the old lore she wasnt solely tied to any of these forces since they werent so rigid beforehand). Maybe they should've named it "nature" instead? Life just feels too specific and limiting.

    Light just seems just as intent on domination as Death, but its glowy instead of spooky? It seems to leave things pretty lifeless as well when its overused. Void seems pretty chaotic, and I'm pretty sure there are old gods of chaos (c'thun) and Death (Yog) unless thats been retconned.

    Most of the forces seem to want roughly the same thing (domination) in slightly different ways, making them feel less like primal, fundamental forces and more like petty warring states with different colored flags. And that's ignoring just how much of this contradicts the lore as presented in vanilla.

    So what are some aspects of the "new" lore that still confuses you? How do you explain these changes in universe? Were our characters simply misinformed? How do you make sense of the cosmic forces, their powers, and their motivations? How do we explain the Jailer and his influence on the story since the formation of the legion all the way to warcraft 3? How did no one catch onto this millennia-long cosmic scheme?
    Some people really like flavor. Occasionally subsisting on nutrient paste just doesn't feel the same as eating a steak. I get that flavor isn't for everyone, but I doubt removing all cosmetic indicators from the game would be appealing either. Nobody want to log in, queue to fight modestly sized blue checked box boss #7, initiate combat using an attack sequence of abilities 1-7 with a 13 beat repeat coda intermittently, and collect item level 630 slot 7 gear either.

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    "How could anyone think this is good idea?"

  3. #3
    The most confusing of all this is that we do not know what is canon and what is not. Not what forces are for.
    Elune is from life but can use: Death, Arcane, Dark and Light. So what does it mean to be from life? a Nationaldiad?

    Or is it that now Elune can no longer use all powers and all those events are no longer cannon.

    It is not so bad that things change in the cannon if it were not for the fact that they do not tell us what change and what not.
    For instance:

    Does Maiev hate the Arcane or not? he changes every time he goes out.
    Does the Mak-Gora use magic or not? it changes every time it comes out.
    The triology of the ancestors is or is it not cannon? Because in Cronicas it says that it was a different time line or something like that.

  4. #4
    All of warlords of draenor, its like….why…why was that an expansion. Its like they tried so hard to make garrosh into a super villain just to have him die like a bitch on a hill, and now we dont even go back there? Its been take over by light zealots, so why?

  5. #5
    Prolly the biggest question at all - why is the writing team not replaced yet? I am SO confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  6. #6
    Why was the Horde entirely co-opted by Alliance flunkies (ie. Undead and Blood Elves)?

    When they joined up, the point was made that they allied with the Horde - they weren't members of the Horde outright. This was forgotten somewhere along the way, and because of that, we're all complicit in genocide.

  7. #7
    Why did they make Tyrande and Malfurion more annoying than ever, but not kill either of them yet?

  8. #8
    What is a soul? Can souls exist in multiple parts of the world simultaneously (e.g. Uther in Shadowlands and also in his tomb during the holiday)? Why does a Mourneblade shatter souls? What is the effect of a shattered soul?

    Some of these are at least partially addressed, but for instance in Sylvanas' case, she existed as a banshee but wasn't even her full soul, so could we have just gotten two banshee Sylvanases? Could we shatter her soul further and have a dozen of them?

  9. #9
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Why they decided to add in The First Ones and make the Shadowlands some sort of weird, ordered pseudo-afterlife that runs off of the life-soul-energy-stuff from 'the real world'. It's not a proper afterlife if you can die in it and stop existing.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    What is a soul? Can souls exist in multiple parts of the world simultaneously (e.g. Uther in Shadowlands and also in his tomb during the holiday)? Why does a Mourneblade shatter souls? What is the effect of a shattered soul?

    Some of these are at least partially addressed, but for instance in Sylvanas' case, she existed as a banshee but wasn't even her full soul, so could we have just gotten two banshee Sylvanases? Could we shatter her soul further and have a dozen of them?
    Wouldn't it be better, make you stronger, to have your soul in more pieces, I mean, for instance, isn't seven the most powerfully magical number?
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    All of warlords of draenor, its like….why…why was that an expansion. Its like they tried so hard to make garrosh into a super villain just to have him die like a bitch on a hill, and now we dont even go back there? Its been take over by light zealots, so why?
    This one really isn’t hard. It was a movie tie-in.

  12. #12
    Yeah I agree the whole cosmic forces hurr durr was the dumbest thing they ever did. Back in the day there was magic and then there was like faith magic and nature worship magic and that was it. Anything dark and bad was just dark arcane magic. It made sense and kept things simple.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Psychotrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Yeah I agree the whole cosmic forces hurr durr was the dumbest thing they ever did. Back in the day there was magic and then there was like faith magic and nature worship magic and that was it. Anything dark and bad was just dark arcane magic. It made sense and kept things simple.
    It also allowed for more creative wiggle room. Not all holy magic was tied to the light. It was just positive intent given form. Not all shadow was tied to the void. It was just negative intent given form. It allowed for unlimited forms of religion in an infinite science fantasy universe.

    Now everything feels restrictive and rigid. I hate it.
    Some people really like flavor. Occasionally subsisting on nutrient paste just doesn't feel the same as eating a steak. I get that flavor isn't for everyone, but I doubt removing all cosmetic indicators from the game would be appealing either. Nobody want to log in, queue to fight modestly sized blue checked box boss #7, initiate combat using an attack sequence of abilities 1-7 with a 13 beat repeat coda intermittently, and collect item level 630 slot 7 gear either.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The most confusing of all this is that we do not know what is canon and what is not.
    This. Even what they have previously said is canon and official/authority is no longer canon. All it did is just make me not care anymore about any of it. Shit writing and constant retcon just killed it for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Yeah I agree the whole cosmic forces hurr durr was the dumbest thing they ever did. Back in the day there was magic and then there was like faith magic and nature worship magic and that was it. Anything dark and bad was just dark arcane magic. It made sense and kept things simple.
    Couldn't agree more. The cosmic forces thing just made everything so stupid.

  15. #15
    Yeah I agree with you on cosmic forces. Not necessarily THAT confusing since it's pretty simple, in fact I think it's oversimplifying things and just bad storytelling.
    ...that's just my opinion, anyway.

    All of this cosmological stuff is too boring for me. I'd like to get Warcraft back, please. my thing is killing defias and orcs.

  16. #16
    The cosmology chart gets pretty confusing when you try to put things into the categories. Like what are the old gods, even? They seem pretty darn void affiliated yet cause chaos and death.

    I don't understand the dynamic for how we're supposed to see Sylvanas narratively over the last few expansions. From useful villain as we fought many of the same greater enemies to outright supervillain to...sympathetic? I still don't know where they're going with it. Redeeming her after everything would be like us managing to successfully talk Sargeras out of destroying the universe.

    The dreadlords "working for the Jailer the whole time" is pretty darn confusing when you think back to the Arthas WCIII arc and Kel'Thuzad (who also works for the Jailer) whispering for Arthas not to trust them, because they are the Lich King's (also pawn of the Jailer)'s Jailers.

    Wat.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-09-14 at 02:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Why they decided to add in The First Ones and make the Shadowlands some sort of weird, ordered pseudo-afterlife that runs off of the life-soul-energy-stuff from 'the real world'. It's not a proper afterlife if you can die in it and stop existing.
    I read your post and it sorta pissed me off. First Ones, they are like Titans, but ya know, more Titany than Titans, "after-life" but like not really THE after-life, just a world that runs on souls....what trash writing. I wouldn't be upset if Blizz reveals none of this is true; it was all part of a nightmare, that N'zoth actually won in BFA and we've been sleeping this whole time and at the end some big character wakes us up, and we can get some semblance of good writing again. Cause screw all this "lore" in Shadowlands.
    Last edited by Liarparadox; 2021-09-14 at 02:09 AM.

  18. #18
    I'm glad someone finally pointed this out because I've been taking a look at how different fantasy universes do magic for inspiration and Arcane is literally described as being a force of Order

    Yet it's SIMULTANEOUSLY described as being extremely volatile.

    From the WoWpedia:

    "Order is most commonly perceived in reality as arcane magic. Arcane energy is innately volatile, and wielding it requires intense precision and concentration."

    It doesn't make sense. It cannot both be a "cold and intellectal magic" (also stated on WoWPedia) and "innately volatile."

    Volatility and chaos go hand in hand, not volatility and order.

    What they should have done, is have Arcane be easy to manipulate and control but not as powerful as Fel, with Fel then being difficult to manipulate and controæ but far more powerful.
    And what if it's not bait? What if it truly is my own unfiltered dogshit opinion, hm? What then?

  19. #19
    I'm kind of wondering what happens with the forsaken and the shadowlands. Like, are they hanging around as a blue person in bastion potentially, and then they get zapped back into their body? Is there a grace period where they're not 'processed' yet in the shadowlands, and that's the only time they can be resurrected?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    I'm kind of wondering what happens with the forsaken and the shadowlands. Like, are they hanging around as a blue person in bastion potentially, and then they get zapped back into their body? Is there a grace period where they're not 'processed' yet in the shadowlands, and that's the only time they can be resurrected?
    Look at Jaina's brother. He was dead for years and they could still revive him with his recourses intact and in better condition than the others.

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