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  1. #21
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarparadox View Post
    I read your post and it sorta pissed me off. First Ones, they are like Titans, but ya know, more Titany than Titans, "after-life" but like not really THE after-life, just a world that runs on souls....what trash writing. I wouldn't be upset if Blizz reveals none of this is true; it was all part of a nightmare, that N'zoth actually won in BFA and we've been sleeping this whole time and at the end some big character wakes us up, and we can get some semblance of good writing again. Cause screw all this "lore" in Shadowlands.
    Yeah, I have to agree. There are some bits that I think are kind of interesting, like the Dreadlords, but I still feel like they take it too far. This whole "master plan beyond all other plans that sees what every faction ever would do somehow" bullshit that the Jailer pulls is really, REALLY stupid and convoluted.

  2. #22
    I prefer to ignore the mess that is the "One Burning Legion for each timelines" and all the Jailer being behind everything nonsense.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Prolly the biggest question at all - why is the writing team not replaced yet? I am SO confused.
    Can I get an amen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Why was the Horde entirely co-opted by Alliance flunkies (ie. Undead and Blood Elves)?
    Because they're the most popular Horde races, and Blizz panders hard to the Horde playerbase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  4. #24
    More confusing is how people find every excuse to post about their disdain for the direction of the story and the WoW development team in every single thread they post in, and still wonder why people attack them for it. It's becoming the "how do you know somebody is a vegan? They won't stfu about it" meme.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    I'm kind of wondering what happens with the forsaken and the shadowlands. Like, are they hanging around as a blue person in bastion potentially, and then they get zapped back into their body? Is there a grace period where they're not 'processed' yet in the shadowlands, and that's the only time they can be resurrected?
    The 1st gen Forsaken were killed and instantly raised by the Plague, their souls never left their bodies.
    The 2nd gen were corpses raised by the Val'kyr under Sylvanas, so we can assume that they were snatched by mawsworn kyrians and delivered to the corpse.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Can I get an amen?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because they're the most popular Horde races, and Blizz panders hard to the Horde playerbase.
    If that were the case most of the content would be for Blood Elves, then Humans, and then Kaldorei.

  7. #27
    Can we stop this pointless idolization of Warcraft 3?

    Ever since TBC, not Sl, not BfA, not Legion, not Wod.... SINCE TBC Warcraft 3 is barely canon anymore.
    You can take certain moments out of it and consider them "flashbacks" but as a 'telling of canon events' it's very dated, borderline non-canonical.

    This is what they wanted to fix with the remake, tho, they fucked it up.

    WC3 aside most complaints about lore is literally people refusing to read the new lore.
    It's not so hard.

    In fact, most of the things present in the lore (like multiple afterlives and a death realm) is literally present in almost any real world religion in some way.
    You ever heard of Tartarus? With God of War being popular don't anyone dare tell me that Greek mythology is bullshit because it has multiple planes for the afterlife.
    Or everyone's beloved Norse mythology. That one has that too.

    Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

  8. #28
    Why has it been Sylvanas and Anduin nonstop for 3 expansions.

    I liked them both back in the day, but but as the main characters of the game nonstop. Jeez.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Can we stop this pointless idolization of Warcraft 3?
    You do realize that Blizzard keeps doing it, right?

  10. #30
    WoW is the only game that lore is divided between books and the game

    People need to buy books to understand the lore of the game LMAO Thats why everyone play the game and says that lore is trash or is confusing, because the other half of history is released in books
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    This race is an abomination and atrocity. This race doesn't belong in World of Warcraft at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Got ganked by a Vulpera, huh?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    WoW is the only game that lore is divided between books and the game

    People need to buy books to understand the lore of the game LMAO Thats why everyone play the game and says that lore is trash or is confusing, because the other half of history is released in books
    I don't know if you read the books. But much of the books are not canon either.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    I don't know if you read the books. But much of the books are not canon either.
    Uh, most if not all of the books released in the past 15 years are canon...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    You do realize that Blizzard keeps doing it, right?
    Incorrect.

    I only see players bringing up how "oh but back then it was so good, so simple, now it's shit even tho I refuse to read any of it".
    Like, yknow, the start of this thread?

    I'm not saying that it's perfect, there's stuff I don't like, but the old lore had many issues as well and I personally think they expanded on the right things.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by luigisp View Post
    Uh, most if not all of the books released in the past 15 years are canon...
    I remember Illidan's had several inconsistencies with Legion's Maiev. Like it was written with the idae that Maiev would be the bad guy at Legion and someone changed their mind in the middle or something.

    I also remember that before the war Sylvanas had no plans for her to be warchief or that she knew that no one would follow her if she goes to war or something like that. Now we know that everything was her plan from the beginning.

    And do not forget that Tyrande in the last novel is perfectly capable of controlling her thirst for revenge and she can forgive without problems or listen to her allies. Much better than before. Now it turns out that she can't control herself.

    Chronicles is contradicted in Illidian's memoirs with Legion.

    Not that the whole novel is not cannon but there are several "important" themes in the novel that you don't have to take as cannon. Or rather that reading the novel you may end up much more confused than without reading it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Incorrect.

    I only see players bringing up how "oh but back then it was so good, so simple, now it's shit even tho I refuse to read any of it".
    Like, yknow, the start of this thread?

    I'm not saying that it's perfect, there's stuff I don't like, but the old lore had many issues as well and I personally think they expanded on the right things.
    Look at the Cinematics of Thrall and Jaina. They talk about Hijal's events as their good deed together. Not beating the Legion, not beating Arthas no Deathwing. Hijal.

    Or this expansion we have 4 pacts. Uther's, Tyrande's, Kalthaz's and Vash's / Thrall's mom.

    The war fronts are directly based on W3 to the point that they resurrected things to make it look more like the W3.

    Without talking about everything focused on Arthas, you already know that everything was developed in W3.

    And the last "good expansion" by the number the last good is Legion .. and surprise is like 30% W3 if not 50%.


    ____

    PS: If the old tradition had many errors. But it is the one that many entered and we like the most.
    Last edited by geco; 2021-09-14 at 04:16 PM.

  15. #35
    Night Elf mages.

    It'd be like going to Israel and seeing them all tucking into full English breakfasts.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    WoW is the only game that lore is divided between books and the game

    People need to buy books to understand the lore of the game LMAO Thats why everyone play the game and says that lore is trash or is confusing, because the other half of history is released in books
    WoW is not the only game that does this.

    And "this" is called multimedia narrative. It's actually pretty common when it comes to massive franchises.
    Star Wars is one example.

    WoW is not a single player RPG with 150 hours of story. It's an MMO, the way it delivers a story has to match with the fact that it's an MMO.
    So if they want to tell pure story there is a medium for that (or multiple) where gameplay won't restrict them.
    It's pretty simple a concept.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    I remember Illidan's had several inconsistencies with Legion's Maiev. Like it was written with the idae that Maiev would be the bad guy at Legion and someone changed their mind in the middle or something.

    I also remember that before the war Sylvanas had no plans for her to be warchief or that she knew that no one would follow her if she goes to war or something like that. Now we know that everything was her plan from the beginning.

    And do not forget that Tyrande in the last novel is perfectly capable of controlling her thirst for revenge and she can forgive without problems or listen to her allies. Much better than before. Now it turns out that she can't control herself.

    Chronicles is contradicted in Illidian's memoirs with Legion.

    Not that the whole novel is not cannon but there are several "important" themes in the novel that you don't have to take as cannon. Or rather that reading the novel you may end up much more confused than without reading it.




    Look at the Cinematics of Thrall and Jaina. They talk about Hijal's events as their good deed together. Not beating the Legion, not beating Arthas no Deathwing. Hijal.

    Or this expansion we have 4 pacts. Uther's, Tyrande's, Kalthaz's and Vash's / Thrall's mom.

    The war fronts are directly based on W3 to the point that they resurrected things to make it look more like the W3.

    Without talking about everything focused on Arthas, you already know that everything was developed in W3.

    And the last "good expansion" by the number the last good is Legion .. and surprise is like 30% W3 if not 50%.


    ____

    PS: If the old tradition had many errors. But it is the one that many entered and we like the most.
    Oh golly geez, maybe it wasn't Jaina and Thrall who defeated the Legion, Arthas or Deathwing?

    I mean, Thrall did defeat Deathwing but he did it with the aspects with no Jaina in sight.

    So why would they reminisce about events that they literally didn't do together?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Oh golly geez, maybe it wasn't Jaina and Thrall who defeated the Legion, Arthas or Deathwing?

    I mean, Thrall did defeat Deathwing but he did it with the aspects with no Jaina in sight.

    So why would they reminisce about events that they literally didn't do together?
    Nor is it the fault of either of Teldrassil. (So why would they reminisce about events that they literally didn't do together?)
    They are talking about what the Horde and Alliance did together.
    Last edited by geco; 2021-09-14 at 04:27 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Nor is it the fault of either of Teldrassil. (So why would they reminisce about events that they literally didn't do together?)
    They are talking about what the Horde and Alliance did together.
    You're moving the goal post so fucking hard it's ridiculous.

    Those are two separates mentions in that cinematic, I just watched it for you.

    Jaina literally says "WE (as in Thrall and Jaina) once stood together on Mount Hyjal."
    Then Thrall says the whole "Horde and Alliance, it always falls apart" thing. He doesn't start listing off every single achievement and war ever.

    Nobody said in the cinematic that Teldrassil was their fault as that would be stupid af. Thrall didn't even exist in-game at that time (was on Outland) and Jaina was busy doing fuck-all somewhere.

    You can try to wash these together but it just isn't true.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    You're moving the goal post so fucking hard it's ridiculous.

    Those are two separates mentions in that cinematic, I just watched it for you.

    Jaina literally says "WE (as in Thrall and Jaina) once stood together on Mount Hyjal."
    Then Thrall says the whole "Horde and Alliance, it always falls apart" thing. He doesn't start listing off every single achievement and war ever.

    Nobody said in the cinematic that Teldrassil was their fault as that would be stupid af. Thrall didn't even exist in-game at that time (was on Outland) and Jaina was busy doing fuck-all somewhere.

    You can try to wash these together but it just isn't true.
    Same to the theme.
    You didn't complain about the other things. I still see that many references are made to W3 even though it is a game that "is no longer cannon".

    Not only that when things like fans is when they tend to be more like the W3. The whole "Kaldorei Revenge" thing was a "it's cool I know like W3." the whole of "The Honoer's Side" is a "The Horde as they planted it in W3".

    PS: And not to mention that the NPCs have an additional value just for having gone out in W3. Maiev considers himself an "important pj" when he did almost nothing in WoW until very recently.
    Tyrande and Malfurion are not far behind either.

    Instead Shandris and Jarold are ignored. They do not appear in Heros, they do not have their own models.

  20. #40
    The lore makes perfect sense! You just need to stretch it out over several expansions... read a few books... assume motivations that can change on a whim for reasons... wave your hands at some logic... and drink copious amounts of alcohol. Last step is the most important one.

    Biggest issues with the lore is that most of it isn't in the game, or it's not demonstrated well in the game. This current lore narrative should've been stretched out over three expansions at least, as it's completely rushed and not given time to breath. This leads to abrupt character changes and developments that make no sense, in-game events that have zero impact, etc. Also, Blizz needs to stop requiring books to understand the story in the game to an acceptable level... you could even add in-game lore books or resurrect archaeology to allow you to dig up and find lore tidbits to supplement the story.
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    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
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