Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ...
6
14
15
16
17
18
... LastLast
  1. #301
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    13,395
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    is that a joke or fucking real? i don't need more reason to hate him but fuck that's retard even for him
    apparently it is even worse, he said it was "brilliant", we can see why he think what he is being doing in wow is also brilliant.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Oh okay, I see how it is. I will take your excuse that Alliance players are just tired of their faction being the narrative pushover, but then you'll have to listen to mine.

    Horde players in their right mind are not mad that their leaders don't face consequences, they are mad that they turn into nasty cliche of corrupted villains. Sure people could enjoy Garrosh being an unapologetic asshole, we have a right to enjoy our monsters being monsters. The problem is that instead of having it run along into something interesting, it was cut short by that «oh no he actually hates the Horde and he's corrupted» moment.

    But if you met people who unironically think that Garrosh did nothing wrong, you can put them in the asshole bag with :

    _Sylvanas simps.
    _People who seriously blame Elune for the night elves fate in BFA.
    _People who feel entitled to get Sylvanas head as a trophy for their fireplace whenever housing comes out.
    _Probably some others, like people who think vulperas are furry shits but are okay with taurens and worgen.
    Problem is - those people want to enjoy their villainy and be the asshole but when it comes to punishment they rile up and claim that as “good guys” you should just roll over and take it, or bite the pillow, so to say.

    If Horde gets to be the villain they also should deal with consequences of it. And “Alliance just too weak and cant fight back for realz” is not an excuse because then we get into “WoW and warfare logic” part which always boils down to rule of cool.

    Alliance right now is a hostage of the Horde, being constantly on the ropes and waiting for another mad outburst like a battered wife which waits for her violent drunk of a husband to come home and prays that he was not drinking again this evening.

    Only reason they go with “oh they hated the Horde all that time” is because otherwise, with how high the stakes are there will be an actual civil war in the Horde, some parts of it deserting (not whole races mind you, just parts of them) and neutral factions either being wiped out or siding with Alliance because Horde will essentially default to its “Demon Horde settings” which just dosent fly even in illogical world of current WoW.

    So they HAVE TO say that it was “all that nasty Warchief” because otherwise even those hacks would not be able to weasel the Horde from either being destroyed or defaulting into a world-ending all out war which again, can only end with either Horde being destroyed or Alliance (and most of the neutral factions) being wiped out.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Problem is - those people want to enjoy their villainy and be the asshole but when it comes to punishment they rile up and claim that as “good guys” you should just roll over and take it, or bite the pillow, so to say.

    If Horde gets to be the villain they also should deal with consequences of it. And “Alliance just too weak and cant fight back for realz” is not an excuse because then we get into “WoW and warfare logic” part which always boils down to rule of cool.

    Alliance right now is a hostage of the Horde, being constantly on the ropes and waiting for another mad outburst like a battered wife which waits for her violent drunk of a husband to come home and prays that he was not drinking again this evening.

    Only reason they go with “oh they hated the Horde all that time” is because otherwise, with how high the stakes are there will be an actual civil war in the Horde, some parts of it deserting (not whole races mind you, just parts of them) and neutral factions either being wiped out or siding with Alliance because Horde will essentially default to its “Demon Horde settings” which just dosent fly even in illogical world of current WoW.

    So they HAVE TO say that it was “all that nasty Warchief” because otherwise even those hacks would not be able to weasel the Horde from either being destroyed or defaulting into a world-ending all out war which again, can only end with either Horde being destroyed or Alliance (and most of the neutral factions) being wiped out.
    Yeah. It's a pattern no one wanted to see repeated, especially so blatantly than in BFA.

    Although, I don't completely agree on "If Horde gets to be the villain they also should deal with consequences of it. " sometimes the villain win. That's how war works, the winner gets to decide who was the villain.

    Ultimately, the villain should lose and get punished, but a story can be interesting if you let the villain win some. Of course since we are in a perpetual statu quo, we won't see the good truly win or the bad truly win either.
    Last edited by DatToffer; 2021-09-23 at 10:27 PM.

  4. #304

  5. #305
    they should have been eradicated 20 years ago

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Yeah. It's a pattern wanted to see repeated, especially so blatantly than in BFA.

    Although, I don't completely agree on "If Horde gets to be the villain they also should deal with consequences of it. " sometimes the villain win. That's how war works, the winner gets to decide who was the villain.

    Ultimately, the villain should lose and get punished, but a story can be interesting if you let the villain win some. Of course since we are in a perpetual statu quo, we won't see the good truly win or the bad truly win either.
    They already win a lot until it all quietly gets shoved under the carpet.

    Also in WoW at this point an actual subversion of expectations would be for the good guys to win for once. And i mean WIN, not appease/placate the villain and leave hoping they “learned to be better” this time.

    Alliance playerbase is done with “oh the world is not fair” while its clear that “world” means shit nothing to Blizz and they just want to vent their midlife crisis anger on Alliance through Horde and then to quickly stop it until retribution can be done.

    Its bullshit at this point and no sane Alliance player would stay in the game if that continues.

    Also a big point is that when horde wins it ends up in massacre, so they CANT win because then game would be over since Alliance would be dead and gone.

  7. #307
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    13,395
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    They already win a lot until it all quietly gets shoved under the carpet.

    Also in WoW at this point an actual subversion of expectations would be for the good guys to win for once. And i mean WIN, not appease/placate the villain and leave hoping they “learned to be better” this time.

    Alliance playerbase is done with “oh the world is not fair” while its clear that “world” means shit nothing to Blizz and they just want to vent their midlife crisis anger on Alliance through Horde and then to quickly stop it until retribution can be done.

    Its bullshit at this point and no sane Alliance player would stay in the game if that continues.

    Also a big point is that when horde wins it ends up in massacre, so they CANT win because then game would be over since Alliance would be dead and gone.
    when people will learn that no faction will ever win? stop thinking this is some sort of crusade from blizzard against the alliance playersl

    They will just stay in this state of cold war after they trade punches, it is how it is since wc3

    I know that(and this was already talked) for alliance players consider a fair win they have to kill 2/3 of horde people and blow all their capitals, but be logical, and realize this is nonsensical isn't going to happen.

    Besides you talk like majority of the horde want to be villains and bad guys when the entirety of bfa as horde players saying how they hate and dislike that expansion, while a few Sylvanus loyalists liking it, mind you, those people are forsaken and blood elves, the "less horde-y" races you can find

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    when people will learn that no faction will ever win? stop thinking this is some sort of crusade from blizzard against the alliance playersl

    They will just stay in this state of cold war after they trade punches, it is how it is since wc3

    I know that(and this was already talked) for alliance players consider a fair win they have to kill 2/3 of horde people and blow all their capitals, but be logical, and realize this is nonsensical isn't going to happen.

    Besides you talk like majority of the horde want to be villains and bad guys when the entirety of bfa as horde players saying how they hate and dislike that expansion, while a few Sylvanus loyalists liking it, mind you, those people are forsaken and blood elves, the "less horde-y" races you can find
    There is no "crusade" against Alliance. They just dont care what happens to the Alliance and have no passion for the faction at all. So when time comes to cut their losses or just do something that playerbase will NOT like they are that much more likely to screw over Alliance since they dont perceive the faction or its fans as "valuable assets".

    Horde playerbase loved the Sylvanas and her genocidal idea UNTIL they sobered up a little and thought "Hmmm, maybe that will end up not so well for us because we cant REALLY just go wipe out Alliance and she will not stop on her own so...". Basically you LOVED the idea and the execution. You just got cold feet when the thought about the future consequences hit you. Its not "hating" the story or the character, its being a coward.

    Also nobody wants "2/3 of horde people and capitals blown up". We just want a good old horde-style genocidal romp around. You know, nothing major, just some concentrated humiliation and sense of weakness and hopelessness thrown in your face. With your faction being on the ropes entirely and then told to "forgive and forget" and "choose renewal" in the most limp dicked way possible. Nothing much, you see? Just what you already had and we want to have our turn with.

    And you can kill Genn i guess. Oh and Rogers. That will sum up for Natty the Simp and Saurfang. Or we can swap Rogers for Shaw if you want.

    And yes, vast, vast majority of the horde wanted to be unrepentant villains, my fucken memory is not damaged yet and i can still clearly remember how "funny" forums looked back then. If those threads were not created by some shapeshifting Dreadlords or Alliance sleeper agents of course.

  9. #309
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    13,395
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Horde playerbase loved the Sylvanas and her genocidal idea UNTIL they sobered up a little and thought "Hmmm, maybe that will end up not so well for us because we cant REALLY just go wipe out Alliance and she will not stop on her own so...". Basically you LOVED the idea and the execution. You just got cold feet when the thought about the future consequences hit you. Its not "hating" the story or the character, its being a coward.
    They didn't, if you were around the time the leaks start to go around horde playerbase was already pissed that the horde was going to be villain again burning teldrasill, with an evil leader, again. So no, they didn't love, only people who support sylvanus anyway, they are minority of the horde.

    Also nobody wants "2/3 of horde people and capitals blown up". We just want a good old horde-style genocidal romp around. You know, nothing major, just some concentrated humiliation and sense of weakness and hopelessness thrown in your face. With your faction being on the ropes entirely and then told to "forgive and forget" and "choose renewal" in the most limp dicked way possible. Nothing much, you see? Just what you already had and we want to have our turn with.
    ah yes, nothing major, do you even read what you wrote? this is exactly what i said, nothing will be enough, everything si a sin if does nto fulfil your fantasy

    And please, don't pretend this is what happened to the alliance, what is ee here is a clear appeal to emotions.
    And you can kill Genn i guess. Oh and Rogers. That will sum up for Natty the Simp and Saurfang. Or we can swap Rogers for Shaw if you want.
    sorry pal, only horde characters are allowed to die. to show how we win so much

    And yes, vast, vast majority of the horde wanted to be unrepentant villains, my fucken memory is not damaged yet and i can still clearly remember how "funny" forums looked back then. If those threads were not created by some shapeshifting Dreadlords or Alliance sleeper agents of course.
    ah yes, some threads in mmochampion, from the same people who support sylvanas sure reflect accurately the entirety of the horde fanbase

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    They didn't, if you were around the time the leaks start to go around horde playerbase was already pissed that the horde was going to be villain again burning teldrasill, with an evil leader, again. So no, they didn't love, only people who support sylvanus anyway, they are minority of the horde.



    ah yes, nothing major, do you even read what you wrote? this is exactly what i said, nothing will be enough, everything si a sin if does nto fulfil your fantasy

    And please, don't pretend this is what happened to the alliance, what is ee here is a clear appeal to emotions.

    sorry pal, only horde characters are allowed to die. to show how we win so much


    ah yes, some threads in mmochampion, from the same people who support sylvanas sure reflect accurately the entirety of the horde fanbase
    I wasnt talking about MMOChampion i was talking about official forums. But i can also throw in both MMOchamp and Reddit if you like. And all of those forums from official to unofficial were fucken teeming with celebration. And those horde players, an actual minority who DIDNT liked that were told to go play Hello Kitty Adventure or reroll Alliance and generally ostracized. It was very clear which side was in majority and which was in minority.

    What i said was exactly what Horde already had. All i ever want is a reverse of BfA. Hell, you can even have Turalyon as "big bad" ousted in the end to join Yrel and her Holy Jihad of Light. (Obviously with a clause that he will get redeemed and become a Human Naaru or something in the end.)

  11. #311
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    13,395
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    I wasnt talking about MMOChampion i was talking about official forums. But i can also throw in both MMOchamp and Reddit if you like. And all of those forums from official to unofficial were fucken teeming with celebration. And those horde players, an actual minority who DIDNT liked that were told to go play Hello Kitty Adventure or reroll Alliance and generally ostracized. It was very clear which side was in majority and which was in minority.
    this case we have my word against your word.

    I, was in the official foruns, both US and my own country, mmo champion and reddit, the only people who liked this were people who liked sylvanus before, aka forsaken and blood elf players

    tons of topics of people complanning about the current narrative of how the horde was being made villains again, your probably were too emotionally invested in the opposite and din't notice, of course people in the alliance will focus on the ones making fun of the situation, but this isn't the majority,i actually had friends who stop playing horde and the game, because of what happened, i myself went alliance for most part of that expansion, so please cut some slack about "all horde"

    What i said was exactly what Horde already had. All i ever want is a reverse of BfA. Hell, you can even have Turalyon as "big bad" ousted in the end to join Yrel and her Holy Jihad of Light. (Obviously with a clause that he will get redeemed and become a Human Naaru or something in the end.)
    and they will enver do that, because that would imply alliance would be villains, and they can do that.

    this all boils down to terrible writing. not "playerbase fault", they may influence things but its blizzard decision in the end.

  12. #312
    Allow me to make a clarification here Vlad. The only people who wanted a genocidal Horde were usually fanboys of Sylvannas and Garrosh. They were never the majority but just a vocal minority. Just because they had 10 accounts each and screamed more didn't make them the majority. However you are right on that thing that the moment the Horde had to face actual consequences they were screaming What a Cruel World, how Garrosh and Sylvannas did nothing wrong, how it was everyone elses fault for not falling against their might and giving everything etc etc.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    this case we have my word against your word.

    I, was in the official foruns, both US and my own country, mmo champion and reddit, the only people who liked this were people who liked sylvanus before, aka forsaken and blood elf players

    tons of topics of people complanning about the current narrative of how the horde was being made villains again, your probably were too emotionally invested in the opposite and din't notice, of course people in the alliance will focus on the ones making fun of the situation, but this isn't the majority,i actually had friends who stop playing horde and the game, because of what happened, i myself went alliance for most part of that expansion, so please cut some slack about "all horde"


    and they will enver do that, because that would imply alliance would be villains, and they can do that.

    this all boils down to terrible writing. not "playerbase fault", they may influence things but its blizzard decision in the end.
    And Blizzard themselves are also players (for the most part) who associate themselves with the Horde. Only Alliance aligned important developer/writer is Golden and she is only “in it” for Anduin and Jaina.

    So of course Horde maining devs had their idea of what Horde is and what Horde likes and while Alliance near unanimously hated BfA because it shat on both the “aggressive” and “paladinish” Alliance fans Horde had clear, very large (if not a majority) camp of those who utterly loved it until the “bills arrived”.

  14. #314
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    13,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Allow me to make a clarification here Vlad. The only people who wanted a genocidal Horde were usually fanboys of Sylvannas and Garrosh. They were never the majority but just a vocal minority. Just because they had 10 accounts each and screamed more didn't make them the majority. However you are right on that thing that the moment the Horde had to face actual consequences they were screaming What a Cruel World, how Garrosh and Sylvannas did nothing wrong, how it was everyone elses fault for not falling against their might and giving everything etc etc.
    Not even people who liked Garrosh, i liked him, and knew from Legion - the moment they made her warchief - it was going to be a clusterfuck

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And Blizzard themselves are also players (for the most part) who associate themselves with the Horde. Only Alliance aligned important developer/writer is Golden and she is only “in it” for Anduin and Jaina.

    So of course Horde maining devs had their idea of what Horde is and what Horde likes and while Alliance near unanimously hated BfA because it shat on both the “aggressive” and “paladinish” Alliance fans Horde had clear, very large (if not a majority) camp of those who utterly loved it until the “bills arrived”.
    so, now you are saying that the devs play horde. and they like being the villains, thas some next lv conspiracy, even more when we know for a fact that most devs played alliance, Metzen main was a human paladin.

    Anyone could see that the current devs have no idea how the horde work, their thematic, their lore and anything else, they have being, systematically fucking the horde and their races since MOP, to the point o the current faction not even resembling what it ws with this council bullshit.

    yeah sure, we love this "horde bias"
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-09-24 at 08:24 PM.

  15. #315
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,631
    yes it's basically new WoW writers shitting on the old Warcraft lore when the entire point of WC3 was to redeem the orcs and move them away from wanton murder, and only fight back when needed

    you could even say the WC3 Horde was more honorable than the Alliance since Thrall allowed the Kul Tiran survivors in Theramore to leave in peace after Daelin died when we all know if it's reversed: not only the Alliance would slaughter every single orc/troll/ogre surrendering attacker but also go to their homelands to slaughter their citizens, including women and children

    - - - Updated - - -

    oh, and this is after the fact that the Kul Tirans attempted genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Darkspears, twice, in just Warcraft 3 alone
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  16. #316
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    18,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post

    you could even say the WC3 Horde was more honorable than the Alliance since Thrall allowed the Kul Tiran survivors in Theramore to leave in peace after Daelin died when we all know if it's reversed: not only the Alliance would slaughter every single orc/troll/ogre surrendering attacker but also go to their homelands to slaughter their citizens, including women and children
    This idea doesn’t really hold up when you consider that the orcs are only still around because the alliance refused to slaughter them all to the point where members left over it or went rouge and got no support like daelin did.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post

    Alliance right now is a hostage of the Horde, being constantly on the ropes and waiting for another mad outburst like a battered wife which waits for her violent drunk of a husband to come home and prays that he was not drinking again this evening.
    Really.. That's not how Varian put it or how Anduin put it when either of them came in declaring their victories over the warmonging bbeg of their respective expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    This idea doesn’t really hold up when you consider that the orcs are only still around because the alliance refused to slaughter them all to the point where members left over it or went rouge and got no support like daelin did.
    which only happened cause the more blood thirsty fighters in teh alliance were busy turning Draenor to outland with an all out push to deal with the orcs. Don't worry... they're back in the lore now as jaded millenia old cosmically infused shells of their former selves for the writing team to butcher up.

    - - - Updated - - -


    edit:

    also post war alliance was busy fucking each other over.... not paying their masons which lead to riots and a whole mess of BS that had a king go MIA.... or trying to divy up northern nations because, well, 'reasons'... and then that mess with the cult stirring up shit that got WAY too far out of hand. A bunch of lazy orcs that didn't seem to do anything wasn't worth real attention anymore when they had more pressing issues.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2021-09-25 at 03:14 AM.

  18. #318
    Should the Alliance pay for starving out the Orcs in pre-Cata, despite the deal they had?

    Should the ALliance pay the Zandalari for the capital raid and the death of their king?

    Should the Alliance pay for the 20 years of slavery the Orcs endured?

    Should the Alliance pay for Garithos' treatment of the Blood Elves?

  19. #319
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,631
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Should the Alliance pay for starving out the Orcs in pre-Cata, despite the deal they had?

    Should the ALliance pay the Zandalari for the capital raid and the death of their king?

    Should the Alliance pay for the 20 years of slavery the Orcs endured?

    Should the Alliance pay for Garithos' treatment of the Blood Elves?
    let's go deeper than that

    Should the Alliance pay for the Tyr's Hand peasant massacre?

    Should the Alliance pay for the Culling of Stratholme

    Should the Alliance pay for the betrayal of Ice Trolls in Northrend?
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  20. #320
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    18,214
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    which only happened cause the more blood thirsty fighters in teh alliance were busy turning Draenor to outland with an all out push to deal with the orcs. Don't worry... they're back in the lore now as jaded millenia old cosmically infused shells of their former selves for the writing team to butcher up.
    So Daelin and genn went all the way to draenor but that hopped back just in time to make a fuss about the orcs not being killed now? Or is it that were pretending a few soldiers trying to close a portal have the weight to force there monarchs to change there stances when the alliance it self falling apart didn't?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •