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  1. #1

    Should the horde be made to pay for the crimes of their leaders?

    Simply put, much of the problems in the WoW lore can be directly attributed to horde leaders who have done horrible things. Should the horde be made to pay for those crimes in some way?

    Also, would you support a fifth Alliance / horde war (in game or in books) where the Alliance actually wins ground and has objective victories for once?

  2. #2
    Garrosh did nothing wrong etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This is your fault.

  3. #3
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I would not support any further wars between the Horde and Alliance. It's overdone and stupid at this point. Give us some actual, meaningful peace for once.

    And for people saying, "bUt ItS wArCraFT", the war doesn't have to be between the Horde and Alliance. There are, y'know, other groups out there. Lots of 'em, in fact.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Simply put, much of the problems in the WoW lore can be directly attributed to horde leaders who have done horrible things. Should the horde be made to pay for those crimes in some way?

    Also, would you support a fifth Alliance / horde war (in game or in books) where the Alliance actually wins ground and has objective victories for once?
    no, not even in the real world this is a thing.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Simply put, much of the problems in the WoW lore can be directly attributed to horde leaders who have done horrible things. Should the horde be made to pay for those crimes in some way?

    Also, would you support a fifth Alliance / horde war (in game or in books) where the Alliance actually wins ground and has objective victories for once?
    Only if we can erase all NEs from existence for their crimes against Azeroth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I would not support any further wars between the Horde and Alliance. It's overdone and stupid at this point. Give us some actual, meaningful peace for once.

    And for people saying, "bUt ItS wArCraFT", the war doesn't have to be between the Horde and Alliance. There are, y'know, other groups out there. Lots of 'em, in fact.
    Faction war should have ended with WC3.

    WoW would have been far better off without factions.

  6. #6
    Right after the alliance pay for trying to commit genocide on the blood elves.

  7. #7
    Punishment isn't going to help. Every time the Horde has attempted to destroy the Alliance, it was under some shitbag leader who went against the wishes of the majority. The fact that the faction is in tatters and leaderless after every expansion is punishment enough, it punishes itself pretty well.

    Frankly I'm just sick of the faction conflict. It has the same vibes as a married couple that has been together for twenty years but won't stop yelling and shouting at each other. At some point it just gets tiring and there's nothing more to say or do with the subject, we were at that point years ago.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    no, not even in the real world this is a thing.
    Uh, yes it is? When you yourself willingly participate in nasty deeds of your leaders, like at Teldrassil? "Just following orders" doesn't work even (or especially) IRL.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-09-13 at 09:57 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I would not support any further wars between the Horde and Alliance. It's overdone and stupid at this point. Give us some actual, meaningful peace for once.

    And for people saying, "bUt ItS wArCraFT", the war doesn't have to be between the Horde and Alliance. There are, y'know, other groups out there. Lots of 'em, in fact.
    So much this.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I would not support any further wars between the Horde and Alliance. It's overdone and stupid at this point. Give us some actual, meaningful peace for once.

    And for people saying, "bUt ItS wArCraFT", the war doesn't have to be between the Horde and Alliance. There are, y'know, other groups out there. Lots of 'em, in fact.
    I mean, we get these wars each expansion. War Against Burning Legion, against Old Gods etc. Faction conflicts were only the background to that (even in BfA in later patches).
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  11. #11
    Maybe, that however would best be left in the eye of the beholder, where it belongs. That's the wonderful thing about different perspectives they can be equally valid and still contradict each other, when written reasonably well.


    As for another war... it would have to be a damn good story to justify revisiting, because if they do another Warchief killing spree in name of yet another satan the game might suffer it's final box office bomb. At the moment unless the Aliance goes way out of line i don't really see the Horde doing anything meaningful, without a proper kick up the ass (and dead Baine).

  12. #12
    I would have loved to see the Alliance win completely and the Horde actually struggling for something.

    But it's too late and now everyone is tired of the Horde/Alliance fight and how poorly it can be handled.

    So no.

    As for making the Horde pay for whatever they've done. Yeah lol, let's just see them try.
    Last edited by DatToffer; 2021-09-13 at 10:21 PM.

  13. #13
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    It's not the horde's leaders who burned teldrassil blighted dark shore and gilenas or any of the other big bad things the horde have done it was the common soldiers. you can't pass the buck to one big name when the common people of the horde are willing and happy to do an endless amount of atrocities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Right after the alliance pay for trying to commit genocide on the blood elves.
    They already did all of alliance members there were slain unlike the horde.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #14
    Well the Horde's other leaders and people followed them into committing these atrocities, and most often that not did find their morals and sense of honor back way after they should have had.

    And realistically the Horde should have suffered at least economical sanctions from the Alliance but it's obvious that they are never going to face true justice for them nor that the Alliance's people will ever get real closure.

    The Fourth War was shitty enough and should have never happened in the first place, so the idea of a fith one isn't something I'll support.

  15. #15
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    Punishment isn't going to help. Every time the Horde has attempted to destroy the Alliance, it was under some shitbag leader who went against the wishes of the majority.
    Both sylvanas and garrosh had majority support until they started going against the horde it self and in sylvanas's case even after she did. both were seen as hero's when say thereamore and the tree were burn/nuked.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalocy Jim View Post
    Simply put, much of the problems in the WoW lore can be directly attributed to horde leaders who have done horrible things. Should the horde be made to pay for those crimes in some way?

    Also, would you support a fifth Alliance / horde war (in game or in books) where the Alliance actually wins ground and has objective victories for once?
    Yes, and yes.
    Leaders are all fun and games but the horrors tend to be perpetrated by the people - and no amount of cowardly excuses shoukd allow the masses to hide behond their leaders so cowardly.

    The leaders are only ever the symptoms, the populace is the disease.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Rend Blackhand's Avatar
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    Blizzard: The Horde does this

    Horde players: what?

    Blizzard: you need to be punished for this

    It was stupid in MoP, it was stupid in BFA, it will be stupid until the heat death of the universe.

    Remember it was Afrasiabi who changed Garrosh into the villain so if you think the horde is evil you support a sex offender
    Me not that kind of Orc!

  18. #18
    Why would you punish the people for the actions of despot leaders ?

    Its wrong in the real world and it would be wrong in a game, the people very rarely have a choice in what their leaders decide to do.

    Even worse when its game devs deciding what the faction will be doing in game ...you really think Horde players wanted to do another asinine war with the Alliance ? or kill that many Nelfs ? no It was the game directors and devs that went in that stupid direction.
    Last edited by Addiena; 2021-09-13 at 10:48 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I would not support any further wars between the Horde and Alliance. It's overdone and stupid at this point. Give us some actual, meaningful peace for once.

    And for people saying, "bUt ItS wArCraFT", the war doesn't have to be between the Horde and Alliance. There are, y'know, other groups out there. Lots of 'em, in fact.
    i get that, but they want to keep WoW going for as long as possible so they keep retreading old plots(like the Pokemon Anime). How many times can we beat a Legion invasion or Old Gods and their infiltrators, or stop the forces of Death before it gets old? Well after Cataclysm of dealing with Old Gods, Death and the Legion, they tried HordeVsAlliance. It didn't go overwell because they tried to make half the playerbase evil, in the eyes of the other half, but not let them "put them down" like any other villains. The good thing about that war though, it brought us back down to earth. We fought the Legion on another world, we faced the Lich King and the Scourge and defeated the Hour of Twilight and Death Wing and it felt like we became gods, but MoP brought us back down to fighting amongst ourselves instead of fighting god level threats. It was like a reset and by the time of Legion we were back up to that God Level status again. Almost like we had an item squish and player pwrlvl squish twice, BFA brings us back down to mortal levels of power, fighting amongst ourselves again.

    If you're fine with the threats ramping up every expansion, then yeah screw the HordeVsAlliance wars, but if you're tired of fighting stronger and stronger threats to the point that you dont even feel like you're an "adventurer" anymore, then the HordeVsAlliance wars were meant to give that back to you, but it was done in a bad way.

    I just want the Light Expansion and Void Lords to invade already to be done with this universe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena View Post
    Why would you punish the people for the actions of despot leaders ?

    Its wrong in the real world and it would be wrong in a game, the people very rarely have a choice in what their leaders decide to do.

    Even worse when its game devs deciding what the faction will be doing in game ...you really think Horde players wanted to do another asinine war with the Alliance ? or kill that many Nelfs ? no It was the game directors and devs that went in that stupid direction.
    I personally dont want another "You're horde, you're evil embrace it" followed by "now it's time to tell you how you shouldn't be evil and to turn on your leader" like we've had twice now. And yes, beginning of BFA, that's all you heard on here from Alliance is that "You're evil, stop trying to argue against it" lol.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    i get that, but they want to keep WoW going for as long as possible so they keep retreading old plots(like the Pokemon Anime). How many times can we beat a Legion invasion or Old Gods and their infiltrators, or stop the forces of Death before it gets old? Well after Cataclysm of dealing with Old Gods, Death and the Legion, they tried HordeVsAlliance. It didn't go overwell because they tried to make half the playerbase evil, in the eyes of the other half, but not let them "put them down" like any other villains. The good thing about that war though, it brought us back down to earth. We fought the Legion on another world, we faced the Lich King and the Scourge and defeated the Hour of Twilight and Death Wing and it felt like we became gods, but MoP brought us back down to fighting amongst ourselves instead of fighting god level threats. It was like a reset and by the time of Legion we were back up to that God Level status again. Almost like we had an item squish and player pwrlvl squish twice, BFA brings us back down to mortal levels of power, fighting amongst ourselves again.

    If you're fine with the threats ramping up every expansion, then yeah screw the HordeVsAlliance wars, but if you're tired of fighting stronger and stronger threats to the point that you dont even feel like you're an "adventurer" anymore, then the HordeVsAlliance wars were meant to give that back to you, but it was done in a bad way.

    I just want the Light Expansion and Void Lords to invade already to be done with this universe

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    I personally dont want another "You're horde, you're evil embrace it" followed by "now it's time to tell you how you shouldn't be evil and to turn on your leader" like we've had twice now. And yes, beginning of BFA, that's all you heard on here from Alliance is that "You're evil, stop trying to argue against it" lol.
    I too am over the "Evil" horde thing, I just want to play with my Alliance buddies and go fishing in Stormwind without being harassed by overzealous guards. Hell Belfs used to be part of the Alliance and the rest of the Horde can speak common just fine, we also have a common enemy and for the most part work together just fine when the story allows it.

    I want ONE Azeroth and for this silly faction war bullshit to be dropped already.

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