View Poll Results: You decide: New class, Class skins, 4th specs, or New combos

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  • New class

    166 38.25%
  • Class skins

    182 41.94%
  • 4th specs

    181 41.71%
  • New combos

    80 18.43%
  • Other

    45 10.37%
  • None

    40 9.22%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Because that's how Blizzard has been operating. Many would have claimed the Demon Hunter didn't deserve its own place, but Blizzard decided otherwise.
    So Blizzard could decide to add Class Skins too. What is the difference?

    Wildhammer Dwarf deserve to be an a Allied Race. Blizzard officially made them a skin customization instead. In your explanation, this is what Blizzard decided on, how Blizzard operated.

    So by your own acknowledgement, Class Skins could work because logically speaking, Blizzard could decide to do so, since this is what they did to Wildhammers who deserve their own race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, he still came back. But, again, not a single peep about how he was kidnapped by Azshara's minions back in Cataclysm or how he broke free. The entire storyline was dropped, demonstrating that Blizzard is not adverse to simply dropping storylines suddenly.
    Storylines maybe, but not the concept. They didn't retcon him out of the game.

    This has nothing to do with 'special powers'. My question was: why give night warrior specific customization to all the night elves, if Blizzard is planning on making the night warrior a class? That makes no sense. It's like giving demon hunter horns, demonic eyes and fel-pocked skin to all night elves and blood elves long before the playable class is added.
    Because other Night elves were affected that didn't become Night Warriors.

    Dude. Stop. A blindfold is just a piece of cloth wrapped around someone's eyes. Anyone can wear a blindfold anytime they want. No night elf can have pitch-black eyes unless they're affected by the night warrior.
    *sigh*

    Why give it specifically to Night elves? you're, purposefully, being blind to the obvious.

    And then you said that "if there is one for the races, it's the same for the classes".
    Not the reason. The division.

    HAHAHAHAH!!!

    Come on, not even you believe that nonsense. "Discriminating"? Really? REALLY!? Wow, way to misuse the word. No, it's not "discrimination", at all. Legion is no longer the current expansion, therefore it's not getting anything else added to it unless it's absolutely necessary, and new class order halls for new classes added post-Legion are absolutely not necessary.
    It would be a bummer not to be able to join a class hall, but i guess you're right.

    No. No, they can't. You won't see a demon hunter wearing Thunderheart Raiments or a death knight wearing Justicar Armor.
    Weird.
    It appears on the transmog page:
    https://www.wowhead.com/death-knight...ets#gallery;40

    No, we don't. That is an already established fact. You don't need the class order halls to level through the Legion zones without a hitch.
    Okay, i guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So Blizzard could decide to add Class Skins too. What is the difference?

    Wildhammer Dwarf deserve to be an a Allied Race. Blizzard officially made them a skin customization instead. In your explanation, this is what Blizzard decided on, how Blizzard operated.

    So by your own acknowledgement, Class Skins could work because logically speaking, Blizzard could decide to do so, since this is what they did to Wildhammers who deserve their own race.
    On what metric did Wildhammers deserve their own race?
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    On what metric did Wildhammers deserve their own race?
    On what metric did Dark Irons and not Wildhammer?

    On that note what metric do all classes need to have their own gameplay?

    If Blizzard makes Dark Ranger or POTM tied directly to Hunter class (As Beastmaster has been tied to them) then Hunters would officially represent all Ranger types. Bjust as Warrior already represents Warrior types like Mountain King.

    And you're fine with certain specs simply representing these classes, like Fury giving MK representation even though Mountain King are not actually 'Fury Warrior', any more than a Dark Ranger or POTM could simply be represented by a Marksmanship Hunter by Blizzard changing around some abilities and adding more talent options.

    I mean if we look at Talents as they exist right now, they're all fairly generic. If Blizzard added talents that were like Sylvanas' Bow and Quiver effects, adding Withering Fire and Wailing Arrow, then that would be Hunters providing Dark Ranger Gameplay and representing them officially, just as Warrior class already does for MK.

    At that point, Class Skin literally just fills in the gaps with cosmetics. New animations, FX and different Racial options like red eyes and pale skin.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-18 at 08:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  4. #184
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Storylines maybe, but not the concept. They didn't retcon him out of the game.
    Who said anything about retconing? The Throne of Tides event still happened. What I'm saying is that all this "buildup and storytelling" you claim would be "wasted" if nothing comes out of the night warrior can and, in my opinion, is being dropped, or more precisely, ended in Shadowlands with the Tyrande storyline.

    Because other Night elves were affected that didn't become Night Warriors.
    Source?

    *sigh*

    Why give it specifically to Night elves? you're, purposefully, being blind to the obvious.
    "It's obvious" and its cousin "it's common sense" are not strong arguments to make. You do know a human rogue can wear a blindfold, right? So can a tauren druid. Or a draenei monk.

    Weird.
    It appears on the transmog page:
    https://www.wowhead.com/death-knight...ets#gallery;40
    Go into WoW on your death knight and look for "justicar" in your transmog window.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    On what metric did Dark Irons and not Wildhammer?
    Probably a solid one, because they got their own allied race.

    On that note what metric do all classes need to have their own gameplay?

    If Blizzard makes Dark Ranger or POTM tied directly to Hunter class (As Beastmaster has been tied to them) then Hunters would officially represent all Ranger types. Bjust as Warrior already represents Warrior types like Mountain King.
    They already did, with things like Black Arrow and Trueshot Aura. It didn't satisfy the fantasy, at the end of the day.

    And you're fine with certain specs simply representing these classes, like Fury giving MK representation even though Mountain King are not actually 'Fury Warrior', any more than a Dark Ranger or POTM could simply be represented by a Marksmanship Hunter by Blizzard changing around some abilities and adding more talent options.
    All Mountain King abilities are in the Warrior class, like Storm Bolt, Thunder Clap and Avatar. They are just spread wrongly, across different specs. Bash is not unique to the archetype and is shared with other units. For a more complete Mountain King experience, they should take inspiration from Muradin's HotS character.

    I mean if we look at Talents as they exist right now, they're all fairly generic. If Blizzard added talents that were like Sylvanas' Bow and Quiver effects, adding Withering Fire and Wailing Arrow, then that would be Hunters providing Dark Ranger Gameplay and representing them officially, just as Warrior class already does for MK.
    You wouldn't be able to add things like Mind Control/Possession, Life Drain or Banshee Wave.

    At that point, Class Skin literally just fills in the gaps with cosmetics. New animations, FX and different Racial options like red eyes and pale skin.
    Exactly. Cosmetically.
    They do not cover gameplay demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Who said anything about retconing? The Throne of Tides event still happened. What I'm saying is that all this "buildup and storytelling" you claim would be "wasted" if nothing comes out of the night warrior can and, in my opinion, is being dropped, or more precisely, ended in Shadowlands with the Tyrande storyline.
    Not when Elune is being set up like this.

    Source?
    "Contrary to other night elves, they have black eyes due to the Night Warrior ritual. The change occurs over time to any night elf fighting on behalf of Elune while under the darkened moon in Darkshore."
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Army_of_the_Black_Moon

    "It's obvious" and its cousin "it's common sense" are not strong arguments to make. You do know a human rogue can wear a blindfold, right? So can a tauren druid. Or a draenei monk.
    It's not a head piece.
    It's, literally, a Night elf only customization option. You'd need to be ignorant to not know that is referencing Demon Hunters.

    Go into WoW on your death knight and look for "justicar" in your transmog window.
    So, the site lies?
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-18 at 09:18 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Probably a solid one, because they got their own allied race
    And there would equally be a solid reason for them to make Class Skins.

    They already did, with things like Black Arrow and Trueshot Aura. It didn't satisfy the fantasy, at the end of the day.
    Yeah but neither does Fury satisfy Mountain King, yet you are okay if they simply added more.

    You see the double standard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And there would equally be a solid reason for them to make Class Skins.
    Yes. To accommodate for lacking race/class combos.

    Yeah but neither does Fury satisfy Mountain King, yet you are okay if they simply added more.

    You see the double standard?
    Because balancing reasons causes them to move MK abilities to different specs. That's a mistake. They should all be under one spec - Fury. And better yet, be elaborated upon.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  8. #188
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Not when Elune is being set up like this.
    Set up like what?

    It's not a head piece.
    It's, literally, a Night elf only customization option. You'd need to be ignorant to not know that is referencing Demon Hunters.
    Except the demon hunter's appearance is more than just a blindfold, isn't it?

    So, the site lies?
    Do it and check it for yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    Because balancing reasons causes them to move MK abilities to different specs. That's a mistake. They should all be under one spec - Fury. And better yet, be elaborated upon.
    You're aware they shift abilities all the time and can rebalance around that right?

    That would be the logical thing if they want to implement better Class Skin integration, than just shoehorning for the sake of it.

    So true shot aura wasn't enough to represent PotM, and they could elaborate to include Sentinel Shots, Lunar Flares and cosmetics to visually change Volley to look like Starfall.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-19 at 02:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Set up like what?
    Being an important entity in future story.

    Except the demon hunter's appearance is more than just a blindfold, isn't it?
    They couldn't give you horns, like they couldn't give you antlers. It's a tribute.

    Do it and check it for yourself.
    Then, report it if it isn't right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So true shot aura wasn't enough to represent PotM, and they could elaborate to include Sentinel Shots, Lunar Flares and cosmetics to visually change Volley to look like Starfall.
    Makes much more sense than Jellmo's suggestion for the Priest.

    Too bad it can't cover all of the PotM/Night Warrior abilities.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    much more sense than Jellmo's suggestion for the Priest.

    Too bad it can't cover all of the PotM/Night Warrior abilities.
    You mean all those abilities that don't exist?

    PotM literally has 4 abilities, of which Hunters already cover if they get new cosmetics for Scout and Starfall.

    And Night Warrior could easily be a separate class skin for DH.

    Besides, if we are sticking so anally to WC3 gameplay, then.DKs, Brewmasters, Demon Hunters and Paladins aren't even properly represented because WoW made changes to their abilities. DH metamorphosis isn't even ranged. ESF isn't on Brewmaster spec. Reanimate Dead doesn't exist.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-19 at 03:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You mean all those abilities that don't exist?

    PotM literally has 4 abilities, of which Hunters already cover if they get new cosmetics for Scout and Starfall.
    You're forgetting Hots, which shows it can heal and party-stealth.

    And Night Warrior could easily be a separate class skin for DH.
    How many does one archetype gets? so would Druids and Priests?

    Besides, if we are sticking so anally to WC3 gameplay, then.DKs, Brewmasters, Demon Hunters and Paladins aren't even properly represented because WoW made changes to their abilities. DH metamorphosis isn't even ranged. ESF isn't on Brewmaster spec. Reanimate Dead doesn't exist.
    DH Metamorphosis matches that of HotS.
    ESF not being on the Brewmaster is a crime.
    Death Knights have army of the dead.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You're forgetting Hots, which shows it can heal and party-stealth.
    Rogues and Priests already cover both abilities.

    Shroud is a Party stealth.

    How many does one archetype gets? so would Druids and Priests?
    PotM covered by Hunter, who reskins Volley into Starfall and Arcane Shot/Explosive Shot into Searing Arrow/Sentinel Shot.

    Night Warrior gets covered by Demon Hunter, which uses Glaives and reskins various Fel-looks and forms into Elune-appopropriate themes. Instead of Demon Form, you get the Star-tattoo Celestial form.

    DH Metamorphosis matches that of HotS.
    ESF not being on the Brewmaster is a crime.
    Death Knights have army of the dead.
    They're taking inspiration from HOTS.

    That means Kel'thuzad in HOTS can be a basis for a Necromancer class.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-19 at 08:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Rogues and Priests already cover both abilities.

    Shroud is a Party stealth.
    Thanks for confirming it can't only be covered by the Hunter.

    PotM covered by Hunter, who reskins Volley into Starfall and Arcane Shot/Explosive Shot into Searing Arrow/Sentinel Shot.
    The above says otherwise.

    Night Warrior gets covered by Demon Hunter, which uses Glaives and reskins various Fel-looks and forms into Elune-appopropriate themes. Instead of Demon Form, you get the Star-tattoo Celestial form.
    Have you considered the Night Warrior also does what a PotM does?

    They're taking inspiration from HOTS.

    That means Kel'thuzad in HOTS can be a basis for a Necromancer class.


    How?

    The basis is more likely to be Xul.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  15. #195
    Maybe fix current classes instead of bogging the game down with another one or another spec

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Thanks for confirming it can't only be covered by the Hunter.
    As a class skin, sure they could. POTM in WC3 didn't have healing or party stealth.

    The above says otherwise.
    Only if you're talking about Tyrande in Heroes of the Storm rather than a Priestess of the Moon Hero.

    And I'd say that's shifting the goalpost, since you have been very specific about representing Warcraft 3 Heroes deserving representation. Not Heroes of the Storm.

    Have you considered the Night Warrior also does what a PotM does?
    Name one other Priestess of the Moon who became Night Warrior.

    How?
    The same way you're suggesting Tyrande's abilties in HOTS should be adapted straight into WoW, even though Priestess of the Moon in WC3 didn't have healing spells or party stealth. POTM in WC3 played more like Raynor or Hanzo. You're implying to add HOTS abilities to the WC3 concept.

    Same for Necromancer. Have one spec dedicated to Ritual spellcasting, based on Kel'thuzad and the broader 'House of Rituals' themes. Kel'thuzad was a Necromancer, and still is after became a Lich. Lich is his title, Necromancer is still his class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Maybe fix current classes instead of bogging the game down with another one or another spec
    They never will. Last two expansions didn't add any new classes, and current classes didn't get any better for it. People gotta start realizing broken class balance has nothing to do with new classes being added. It's not like the game would be more balance if they kept Demon Hunters out of the game.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-19 at 08:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    As a class skin, sure they could. POTM in WC3 didn't have healing or party stealth.



    Only if you're talking about Tyrande in Heroes of the Storm rather than a Priestess of the Moon Hero.

    And I'd say that's shifting the goalpost, since you have been very specific about representing Warcraft 3 Heroes deserving representation. Not Heroes of the Storm.



    Name one other Priestess of the Moon who became Night Warrior.



    The same way you're suggesting Tyrande's abilties in HOTS should be adapted straight into WoW, even though Priestess of the Moon in WC3 didn't have healing spells or party stealth. POTM in WC3 played more like Raynor or Hanzo. You're implying to add HOTS abilities to the WC3 concept.

    Same for Necromancer. Have one spec dedicated to Ritual spellcasting, based on Kel'thuzad and the broader 'House of Rituals' themes. Kel'thuzad was a Necromancer, and still is after became a Lich. Lich is his title, Necromancer is still his class.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They never will. Last two expansions didn't add any new classes, and current classes didn't get any better for it. People gotta start realizing broken class balance has nothing to do with new classes being added. It's not like the game would be more balance if they kept Demon Hunters out of the game.
    So let's add to the broken by adding more broken?

  18. #198
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Being an important entity in future story.
    What makes you think they're "setting Elune up to be important in a future story"? From any angle I can see, she's just being set up to be important in this current story.

    They couldn't give you horns, like they couldn't give you antlers. It's a tribute.
    Why? Why couldn't they? It's not like 'horns' are something that Blizzard is incapable of doing. After all, we had Tauren since day one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    So let's add to the broken by adding more broken?
    We're talking about the same game here, right?


    There's never been a point in WoW's lifespan where classes were not broken. They have already been adding to the broken for more than 10 years now. That's exactly what Borrowed Power mechanics are doing. So if not a new class, they'll just find other ways to break the balance.


    I really hope you realize that they have no intention to fix the balance. If their goal was to fix the balance, they could have done it years ago. By not adding any new features. And that would be bland as fuck.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-19 at 09:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    We're talking about the same game here, right?


    There's never been a point in WoW's lifespan where classes were not broken. They have already been adding to the broken for more than 10 years now. That's exactly what Borrowed Power mechanics are doing. So if not a new class, they'll just find other ways to break the balance.


    I really hope you realize that they have no intention to fix the balance. If their goal was to fix the balance, they could have done it years ago. By not adding any new features. And that would be bland as fuck.
    I'd rather they work on balance than create new features, personally.

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