Poll: You decide: New class, Class skins, 4th specs, or New combos

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are very much both.
    You have your standard priestesses as well as the Huntresses.
    So, how are you expecting the Priest to accommodate for both of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    It really doesn't have to be 12 new specs. In fact I'm strictly against doing one for everyone. They should do a few of the strong ones that make sense, ideally in the context of the expansion, but forcing 12 would just lead to low quality trash. Some classes are already very well rounded as far as their fantasy goes, no need to extend that forcibly.
    That would be unfair. Except for the Druid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, they are new.

    Allied Races are also New Races, even if you personally think they are also half-used iphones.
    Visually, no.
    Racially, yes.

    You tell me, you've been the one arguing against POTM Class Skins having zero new gameplay to call their own as being a big problem.

    Do you think having no gameplay is better than having gameplay to represent the class? Honest question.
    And i still stand by it.
    I'm asking why you suddenly don't go full-lazy?
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-16 at 09:42 PM.
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  2. #122
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, how are you expecting the Priest to accommodate for both of them?
    I don't.
    I just want my fucking spells to be blue/silver/white, so my night elf priest can be an actual night elf priest.

    Idk what's so hard to grasp about that, jesus.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-09-16 at 09:43 PM.

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  3. #123
    4th specs would be my choice if we could only have one. Several classes are locked into one archetype and can never branch out. This would give them a chance to choose another role without abandoning their class altogether (i.e. mages with a time based healer spec, priests with a light based dps. etc)

  4. #124
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There's truth in your words, but it also demonstrates what is, and what isn't, worth a new race [or class].
    Not really, unless you're going for 'confirmation bias'.

    Look at the Night Warrior, for example: it's a ritual that infuses unbridled power into the night elf's body and it becomes glowy and their eyes black. There's enough in there to justify a new 'race' with new racials, etc, but it ended up as just being a small cosmetic option for NE players: black eyes.

    The lightforged draenei could also very easily just been cosmetic options for the normal draenei: tattoos, new skin colors, horns, etc. Yet they became a separate 'race'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  5. #125
    The Patient BB8's Avatar
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Visually, no.
    Racially, yes.
    Visually they are different too.

    And i still stand by it.
    I'm asking why you suddenly don't go full-lazy?
    Read my original post on Echo Classes. It's all outlined there.

    Class Skins suffer from being bound to the performance of a class. Echo Skins have the flexibility of their own Spec allowing them to have their own gameplay and balance without being bound to the performance of a Core class. If Marksmanship sucks (as it currently falls below BM and Surv), then a Dark Ranger class skin has to go with Beastmastery or Survival to stay competitive; two specs which don't generally embody the Dark Ranger identity.

    That problem is avoided with Echo Classes being buffered by the inclusion of a new Spec that can be tuned to meet the requirements of the class and of the game. If Marks and Sub are two really strong specs next expansion, then Domination can stay as a middle-performance spec that is easier to play but outputs weaker comparatively. Min-maxers have their top-performance options, while casual goers can play an easier spec akin to Havoc DH. Or if Sub and Marks happen to do completely shit, then they could design Domination to be a high-skill cap risk-reward spec that performs very well at the cost of complexity, like Feral Druids. It's flexible design that the Class Skin system doesn't have, but yes it would require effort to do. Simply not as much effort as adding 3 completely new specs.

    Echo Classes are a happy medium.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 09:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #127
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    The idea that we might never have a new class because it wouldn't fit anywhere in the Legion leveling experience makes me sad-giggling.
    Not really. The Legion leveling experience "issue" is actually quite inconsequential.

    The class order halls played no part whatsoever in the leveling experience other than allowing you to pick which artifact weapon to pursue, and which zone to go next. Hell, if you wanted, you could go through the Legion experience without ever setting foot in your order hall after unlocking it and getting your first artifact: just mount up and fly to the next zone, the quest would be there for you to pick up.

    The first "issue" is negated by adding an NPC in Dalaran that grants the player a generic heirloom-like weapon that improves as they level, if they don't have one, already. The second "issue" is negated by adding a Heroes' Board at Krasus' Landing where we can pick up which zone to go next.

    Legion leveling experience without Order Halls: easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I don't.
    I just want my fucking spells to be blue/silver/white, so my night elf priest can be an actual night elf priest.

    Idk what's so hard to grasp about that, jesus.
    Very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Look at the Night Warrior, for example: it's a ritual that infuses unbridled power into the night elf's body and it becomes glowy and their eyes black. There's enough in there to justify a new 'race' with new racials, etc, but it ended up as just being a small cosmetic option for NE players: black eyes.
    Maybe because it would be a new class?

    The lightforged draenei could also very easily just been cosmetic options for the normal draenei: tattoos, new skin colors, horns, etc. Yet they became a separate 'race'.
    We don't know the reason behind it, but if they decided to make it into a new race, then it probably deserves it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Visually they are different too.
    Recolor, mostly.

    Read my original post on Echo Classes. It's all outlined there.
    Because class skins don't do them justice? well, so would Echo classes. They're just class skins with a bit of seasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Legion leveling experience without Order Halls: easy.
    There are entire campaigns associated with them.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-16 at 09:51 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Recolor, mostly.
    Also in customization options, emotes and voices. Plenty more than just recolor.

    Because class skins don't do them justice? well, so would Echo classes. They're just class skins with a bit of seasoning.
    I mean honestly speaking, it depends on how you choose to see a class.

    I don't even think Priests do Priests justice half of the playable races would never use Void magic in lore, and a bunch of other options like Goblins and Gnomes don't even have formal religious orders to really call themselves Priests. Or look at how we're told each race uses the Light differently, but there's no difference between a Forsaken or a Troll or a Dark Iron channeling their spells.

    What we regard as a class as is nothing more than a collection of gameplay mechanics grouped under a similar system. Does it matter that a Sunwalker doesn't actually cast Sun magic? No, it doesn't. But the Paladin gameplay still does it justice, by adapting all of their lore into tangible gameplay mechanics. And if that's what classes effectively are in WoW, then a class skin, or Echo classes, can do it justice by that same standard. And any incongruencies would exist alongside the ones that already exist in WoW classes.

    Right now we have absolutely no way to play a Death-oriented spellcaster that summons undead. A class skin could absolutely do that justice.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 10:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    It really doesn't have to be 12 new specs. In fact I'm strictly against doing one for everyone. They should do a few of the strong ones that make sense, ideally in the context of the expansion, but forcing 12 would just lead to low quality trash. Some classes are already very well rounded as far as their fantasy goes, no need to extend that forcibly.
    what??? you really believe Blizz would ever do this for SOME specs ? can you imagine the giant shitstorm of every class owner not getting a 4th spec ???

    giving DH a third spec, i can imagine. giving a 4th to SOME classes, NO WAY. i mean, what should the marker or reason for give spec 4 to class x instead class y ?

    NO. FUKIN. WAY.

  11. #131
    Wouldn't oppose a new class if it fits the theme of the expansion they're included in, feels unique, and is fun to play. Lots of concepts thrown around over the years, but most don't fit the bill if you ask me.

    And if one is created, please not another melee (specially not a leather wearing one).

  12. #132
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Maybe because it would be a new class?
    Why would it be a new class? And if would be a new class, why did it become just a tiny cosmetic option for night elves only?

    We don't know the reason behind it, but if they decided to make it into a new race, then it probably deserves it.
    And yet you said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There's truth in your words, but it also demonstrates what is, and what isn't, worth a new race [or class].
    Which implies we know the reasons behind it. What is it, then? Do we know, or do we not know, the reasons behind making certain concepts into separate races/classes and others into mere cosmetic options?

    There are entire campaigns associated with them.
    Which is not part of the leveling experience. Right now you can level through Legion, wielding an heirloom weapon, without ever setting foot in your class hall. Get to Legion, mount up, fly to Azsuna/Val'Sharah/Highmountain/Stormheim and start leveling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    what??? you really believe Blizz would ever do this for SOME specs ? can you imagine the giant shitstorm of every class owner not getting a 4th spec ???

    giving DH a third spec, i can imagine. giving a 4th to SOME classes, NO WAY. i mean, what should the marker or reason for give spec 4 to class x instead class y ?

    NO. FUKIN. WAY.
    This is my issue with 4th specs, otherwise I'd be on board with a slow roll-out of specs if it were to happen.

    I just don't see how it moderately works out without an absolute shitstorm of favouritism being called out. It's practically an all-or-nothing move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    It's been 11 years since Sunwalker paladins were introduced and we are still using Light themed abilities.

    Sunwalkers do not worship the Light! We are sun druids/shamans! We wield the power of the sun and fire and the spirits!

    And don't shove our one and only major NPC into a Church!
    Elune is a Moon/Life God. Anshe is Sun/Light. The sun they worship uses the same Light that the humans worship, by a different name. The REAL issue is that Night Elf Priests wield yellow light instead of blue!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I **badly** want unlockable race/class combinations. It wouldnt diminish the rarity of the combo, it wouldnt require an entire new Sunwalker-styled faction, and it could have like a small quest chain like the Night Elf Paladin in Legion got, but the reward is unlocking the combination on your account. Undead paladins exist in lore, but they are rare. They don't deserve a subfaction within the Forsaken army, but I would fucking *love* to be able to do a questline where we raise a paladin into undeath and then get to play as them.

    Aside from that, skins would be a lot better in my opinion. Bonus points if the Horde gets an exclusive elemental skin and Alliance gets a light-themed skin to call back to when Shaman and Paladin were faction specific. Inquisitor for an Alliance shaman skin, and Seer for a Horde Paladin skin.

    Also, on the topic of race/class customizations: I've always thought it would be fucking awesome if they brought back Weapon Expertise or whatever for each race.... But as a transmog option. So like all humans, regardless of class, can wield swords. Orcs get axes, night elves get warglaives, etc.

    Maybe even an option for alternate armor types? Like a talent or something so its on a per-spec basis? Holy paladins could wear mail, mistweavers could wear cloth, etc
    Last edited by Amnaught; 2021-09-16 at 11:08 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by BB8 View Post
    Where is the button: 'All'
    It's a multiple choice poll .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    This is my issue with 4th specs, otherwise I'd be on board with a slow roll-out of specs if it were to happen.

    I just don't see how it moderately works out without an absolute shitstorm of favouritism being called out. It's practically an all-or-nothing move.
    The only way would be to guarantee to have all 12 out by the end of the expansion they are released in. Of course, I would have my doubts about the guarantee since we still have missing heritage armors and forsaken and worgen never got a shared-model AR.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    This is a really unique idea, I dig it!
    It is a straight up rip of something called "prestige classes" in DND, not that I think it is a bad idea.

    IIRC when cataclysm was looming this was one of the ideas people thought path of the titans would indulge - sort of a class within a class. I *think* this is how we ended up with the legendary weapons in Legion, those evolved from that idea.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  17. #137
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
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    I did not expect this to be so even.
    Interesting.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    what??? you really believe Blizz would ever do this for SOME specs ? can you imagine the giant shitstorm of every class owner not getting a 4th spec ???

    giving DH a third spec, i can imagine. giving a 4th to SOME classes, NO WAY. i mean, what should the marker or reason for give spec 4 to class x instead class y ?

    NO. FUKIN. WAY.
    A new clas sbenefits no one other than the people that want a new class. Not all classes get a complete remodel each expansion. Most of the playerbase are older than 6 years.
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    It is a straight up rip of something called "prestige classes" in DND, not that I think it is a bad idea.

    IIRC when cataclysm was looming this was one of the ideas people thought path of the titans would indulge - sort of a class within a class. I *think* this is how we ended up with the legendary weapons in Legion, those evolved from that idea.
    Hero classes were intended to be prestige classes in development. You would have had to level a Paladin to max level before a questline to die and be raised as a Death Knight.

  20. #140
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    I'd rather have new class or 4th specs, but since they can't really even balance things well now...class skins would probably be the best
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

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