You decide: New class, Class skins, 4th specs, or New combos

[TheRevenantHero]

I'd wish I was a billionaire too. We all have our dreams.

Adding a new class with the state of current classes would just further light the game on fire.

[Triceron]

Adding a new class with the state of current classes would just further light the game on fire.

If you want a version of WoW that doesn't have new features, Classic is that way.

[Nehem]

4th & 5th spec and changes to current spec... 2 new class: tinker (goblins & gnomes) and dark ranger (2nd class ingame with bow/xbow + dagger with dark magic), dh as void elfs and nightborne, profession remake especially: jc, insc, enchanting, archeology; dungeon RDF changes (4-6 ppl), removing 1 raid difficulty (normal), decreased ilvl from weekly mythic+ chest by 6ilvl, all items upgradeable by valor to mythic raid ilvl + 2 upgrades (1 upgrade ~7ilvl +-1 including mythic+, world drops, norm/hc dungeons and raids) - weekly u can get 800 to 1300 valors; 1 upgrade cost 500valors AND no other requirements, buyable BoE items with valor, special chat to boosters (and ban booster when they spam on LFG or trade), 1 platinum/mithril coin = 100 gold, new stat (right now we have crit, haste versa, and mastery); reforge system; remake many many other things too... and if we still don't want wow F2P we should make f2p account lvl increased from 20 to 50

[TheRevenantHero]

If you want a version of WoW that doesn't have new features, Classic is that way.

You are literally purposely missing the point. But if you'd rather WoW becomes a further shit filled mess then ok

[arkanon]

Adding a new class with the state of current classes would just further light the game on fire.

I do think it would just be pouring fuel onto the fire, for sure, but im also sure others completely disagree and think the classes are great as they are. I have said clearly many times that i really do not enjoy the current design philosophy within Blizzard at the moment - Typically i find at least a FEW specs i really enjoy, and even during Legion MOST classes had one spec i loved. BfA that reduced to a few specs total, and SL i am yet to find a spec that really excites me - I dont mind WW monk, but thats honestly about it.

[Triceron]

You are literally purposely missing the point. But if you'd rather WoW becomes a further shit filled mess then ok

Again, when has it *not* been a shit filled mess?

They had 2 full expansions to work on fixing balance without adding a class. What happens instead? They add Borrowed Power systems that still break the balance.

I get your point, but you're failing to realize that it's not gonna happen. The only way they stop adding features and balance is if they intend to not make any new expansions in the future.

They intend to treat expansions like Magic the Gathering expansions. New features, new gimmicks, new parasitic design (borrowed power) mechanics. That's how it all works. So if you're asking for a version of WoW that doesn't have new features and only focuses on balance, then that's gonna be something like Classic WoW, because Blizz ain't stopping new expansions, thus not stopping new features that ultimately break the balance.

[Niroshi]

Class skins without a doubt. Would like to do 4th specs and mix up established roles for classes, but skins are probably overall a better use of time.

[arkanon]

Again, when has it *not* been a shit filled mess?

They had 2 full expansions to work on fixing balance without adding a class. What happens instead? They add Borrowed Power systems that still break the balance.

I get your point, but you're failing to realize that it's not gonna happen. The only way they stop adding features and balance is if they intend to not make any new expansions in the future.

They intend to treat expansions like Magic the Gathering expansions. New features, new gimmicks, new parasitic design (borrowed power) mechanics. That's how it all works. So if you're asking for a version of WoW that doesn't have new features and only focuses on balance, then that's gonna be something like Classic WoW, because Blizz ain't stopping new expansions, thus not stopping new features that ultimately break the balance.

Before i say anything else, im not disagreeing with you, and not speaking for TRH, rather adding my own opinion. I agree that the pursuit of ‘balance’ is like chasing the white dragon – they will never catch it. Years back there was a cartoon showing how every single spec was perfectly balanced, and people still complained because there class was further down the list due to alphabetic order. Funny, but also VERY accurate.

My issue with the classes is NOT balance, but rather enjoyment / gameplay. I just do not enjoy the ‘recent’ iteration of classes, and havnt since legion. I know people flap on about MoP like it’s the holy grail, but one thing I can say is every single class in the game had at least ONE spec if not more that I REALLY enjoyed, including specs I had never before enjoyed. I played every single class at normal / heroic level at least, and loved every minute of it. That doesn’t mean I think the expansion was perfect, but it is the era I put the most time and energy into such a diverse group of classes.

- - - Updated - - -

Class skins without a doubt. Would like to do 4th specs and mix up established roles for classes, but skins are probably overall a better use of time.

Skins are a proven system too - very popular in ARPG and eastern mmos/rpgs. In most of the examples i can think of they are F2P games using the skins to make the game profitable, but the same system could work in wow with just an unlock chain, or crafted, or rewards of some kind. Either that or just flatout make them an option – something you pick at the barber or whatever.

[loras]

Well considering that Arms is pretty listless and dull, I feel that a lot of Warrior players would be extremely excited about the idea of being able to play one of the classic WC3 hero characters.

Fair enough, but mangling it into a new class would not help at all to that end.

[username993720]

As a class skin, sure they could. POTM in WC3 didn't have healing or party stealth.

Good thing they have been expanded since then. You can't expect them to have only 4 abilities.

Only if you're talking about Tyrande in Heroes of the Storm rather than a Priestess of the Moon Hero.

And I'd say that's shifting the goalpost, since you have been very specific about representing Warcraft 3 Heroes deserving representation. Not Heroes of the Storm.

HotS expands on those Heroes.
They, literally, take the units and elaborate on their abilities.

Name one other Priestess of the Moon who became Night Warrior.

I don't need to. Tyrande is the representative of the class. All other are negligible.

The same way you're suggesting Tyrande's abilties in HOTS should be adapted straight into WoW, even though Priestess of the Moon in WC3 didn't have healing spells or party stealth. POTM in WC3 played more like Raynor or Hanzo. You're implying to add HOTS abilities to the WC3 concept.

Which are a direct expansion of the WC3 ones.

Same for Necromancer. Have one spec dedicated to Ritual spellcasting, based on Kel'thuzad and the broader 'House of Rituals' themes. Kel'thuzad was a Necromancer, and still is after became a Lich. Lich is his title, Necromancer is still his class.

Fair enough. Liches are, indeed, related to Necromancers.

What makes you think they're "setting Elune up to be important in a future story"? From any angle I can see, she's just being set up to be important in this current story.

The realm of Life, my friend.

Why? Why couldn't they? It's not like 'horns' are something that Blizzard is incapable of doing. After all, we had Tauren since day one.

Ask them.
We are still left without Malfurion-like antlers, even though we can be Druids.
These things usually come from armor sets. Like Vanilla Druid armor sets or the MoP Warlock set.

[Ielenia]

The realm of Life, my friend.

Which is the mortal realm. Again, what makes you think they're "setting Elune up to be important in a future story"? From any angle I can see, she's just being set up to be important in this current story.

Ask them.

I'm asking you because you were the one that made the claim.

[Triceron]

I don't need to. Tyrande is the representative of the class. All other are negligible.

In other words, the class doesn't deserve to be made because it is negligeable, while your argument pertains to Tyrande being made playable because she does unique things that the class does not, and that no other POTM follows.

So we're not actually talking about a POTM class.

Fair enough. Liches are, indeed, related to Necromancers.

Yup. You just had blinders on the entire time.

It was ridiculous having to spell this out to you given you already know the lore. 'OMG Liches can't be playable as a class! They are like a race!!!'. Well duh, so are freakin Keepers and Pitlords, but we have classes representing them too.

Good thing they have been expanded since then. You can't expect them to have only 4 abilities.

Yeah but it's anally retentive to suggest that all of HOTS abilities must be represented in order to consider it being that class.

Look at Demon Hunters - the Hunt was added as a Covenant ability, and not as a core part of the Demon Hunter class. Wandering Keg - completely missing from Brewmasters and Monks. We still have a fully represented Demon Hunter and Brewmaster because the core WC3 themes are all there in the class.

Hunter is completely able to portray the WC3 POTM Hero, given it has the room to customize its abilities.

[FossilFree]

Skins are a proven system too - very popular in ARPG and eastern mmos/rpgs. In most of the examples i can think of they are F2P games using the skins to make the game profitable, but the same system could work in wow with just an unlock chain, or crafted, or rewards of some kind. Either that or just flatout make them an option – something you pick at the barber or whatever.

Another precedent is Warhammer Online, where each faction had a class that shared mechanics with one on the other faction, but the class was skinned to both look different and project a different concept. They weren't minor visual differences, like changing orange fire into green fire, either. For instance, the engineer on the Order faction shared class mechanics with the squig herder on the Destruction faction.

[arkanon]

Another precedent is Warhammer Online, where each faction had a class that shared mechanics with one on the other faction, but the class was skinned to both look different and project a different concept. They weren't minor visual differences, like changing orange fire into green fire, either. For instance, the engineer on the Order faction shared class mechanics with the squig herder on the Destruction faction.

I loved that game - it was very flawed, but it was also just a victim of its times - it came out at peak MMO fever when others (wow) had such a tight grasp on the genre, it was near impossible to make a dent.

[Triceron]

Another precedent is Warhammer Online, where each faction had a class that shared mechanics with one on the other faction, but the class was skinned to both look different and project a different concept. They weren't minor visual differences, like changing orange fire into green fire, either. For instance, the engineer on the Order faction shared class mechanics with the squig herder on the Destruction faction.

I always thought they were the parallel of the High Elf White Lion.

Man, fond memories of that game. I loved the physical blocking in PVP, it made it so much more dynamic being an Tank that actually blocks the enemy front line from charging past you.

[Teriz]

Fair enough, but mangling it into a new class would not help at all to that end.

Why do you think it would be mangled? Bladestorm is already present in the spec. You just need to make a Warrior version of Mirror Image and Windwalk, which can be done fairly easily.

[Three Faced Goddess]

I'd like to see a Dark Ranger Hero Class, but that's probably never going to happen as people keep beating into my skull. It wouldn't have to be limited to elves and it wouldn't have to be called Dark Ranger, it could just satisfy the fantasy. No, hunter does not satisfy the fantasy. It'd be a class for Blood Elves, Night Elves, Humans, and Forsaken and under another name, it could be extended to trolls in the form of Shadow Hunter and maybe void elves in the form of Umbral Rangers.

I would settle for a class skin if Blizzard would ever give Night Elves and Blood Elves the red eyes and undead skin colors (Personally I want them as model toggles for Forsaken.)

[loras]

Why do you think it would be mangled? Bladestorm is already present in the spec. You just need to make a Warrior version of Mirror Image and Windwalk, which can be done fairly easily.

Because those are footnotes at best when it comes even to a yet-to-be blademaster, while they mean literally nothing to arms as it is or has been.

In other words: The introduction of a new class would only add to the problems, while solving none.

[Triceron]

I have an unholy idea...

What about dual-class specialisations?

Like it modifies either class into a mix of that spec and the class.

So you get like a blademaster specc for rogues and warriors, allowing either rogues with two handers or warriors with stealth, to guve a rudimentary example.

Check out my Echo Skins concept on the first page. I think it has a lot of connections with your idea of Dual Classing, without having to actually be tied to those existing classes themselves.

Basically what you got here, except instead of Blademaster being an adaptation for Rogues and Warriors, it would be its own class that has a Rogue-based spec, a Warrior-based spec, and a 3rd completely new spec to call its own just for the sake of identity and bridging ideas. The New spec could even connect itself with some Rogue abilities, some Warrior abilities, to make it feel all connected as one Class.

[loras]

Check out my Echo Skins concept on the first page. I think it has a lot of connections with your idea of Dual Classing, without having to actually be tied to those existing classes themselves.

Basically what you got here, except instead of Blademaster being an adaptation for Rogues and Warriors, it would be its own class that has a Rogue-based spec, a Warrior-based spec, and a 3rd completely new spec to call its own just for the sake of identity and bridging ideas. The New spec could even connect itself with some Rogue abilities, some Warrior abilities, to make it feel all connected as one Class.

That sounds like it would still be a balancing nightmare, which is why i prefaced my own idea with the word "unholy". ^^

But in terms of theoretical execution it sounds decent.