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  1. #1

    What would a complete vanilla wow have looked like without deadlines?

    Maybe an entire outland continent on launch? Caverns of time too with the black morass and durnholde thrall rescue. Perhaps a grim batol raid? Karazhan is a given too. Then there's a raid portal under Mount Hyjal isn't there?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Maybe an entire outland continent on launch? Caverns of time too with the black morass and durnholde thrall rescue. Perhaps a grim batol raid? Karazhan is a given too. Then there's a raid portal under Mount Hyjal isn't there?
    While your at it, maybe there would be Arthas and Northrend.. Or Deathwing destroying everything. We could of had pandans on a floating turtle, or a portal to go back to and untouched draenor. We could had found the broken isles or even died and gone to the shadowlands. SO much they could had done with no deadlines.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    While your at it, maybe there would be Arthas and Northrend.. Or Deathwing destroying everything. We could of had pandans on a floating turtle, or a portal to go back to and untouched draenor. We could had found the broken isles or even died and gone to the shadowlands. SO much they could had done with no deadlines.
    The difference is that the things OP listed were all things they planned for WoW Vanilla and a lot of it was also built but unreleased.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Pivotal's Avatar
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    Well for one, Paladins would probably be more of a class than buff bots
    Avatar by Mcfjury

  5. #5
    These games always have deadlines to meet. In this case, WoW was released at almost the same time as Everquest II, the successor to the dominant MMO of the time. As it turned out, EQ2 had many issues and ended up being clobbered by WoW, but if Blizzard had delayed the game to implement more content that could have given EQ2 enough time to fix the problems and build its subscription base. It might have held its own when WoW was eventually released, and the MMO genre might be quite different today.

  6. #6
    Yes, we would have had all of that...

    Or you know what? None of that.
    They would still be making the game today adding 9 expansions worth of stuff.

    People seem to simply ignore that developing literally anything takes TIME and MONEY.
    Resources, mate.
    How long would it take for them implement what you wrote? And if there is no deadline, what else?
    Are they just infinitely stuck in developement forever?

    Yes, many things could have worked out better, Paladins were mentioned already, but it's not like the expansions we got later weren't AIMING at fixing the issues and improving on things that were not added initially...
    These are literally what the expansions are for.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Maybe an entire outland continent on launch? Caverns of time too with the black morass and durnholde thrall rescue. Perhaps a grim batol raid? Karazhan is a given too. Then there's a raid portal under Mount Hyjal isn't there?
    tbh it wouldn't have been that great if you think about it. It would basically be half of what we got in TBC which is: Karazhan, part of Outland, Caverns of Time (2 dungeons and the raid) and possibly Quel Thalas. However each of these zones besides the dungeons all of these zones would've looked different and most likely inferior ti what we got in TBC, especially that part of Outland.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pivotal View Post
    Well for one, Paladins would probably be more of a class than buff bots
    Well paladins were more of a class than buff bot two weeks before vanilla launched. They just decided to change 100% of the class and leave it untested.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Well paladins were more of a class than buff bot two weeks before vanilla launched. They just decided to change 100% of the class and leave it untested.
    What were they like before?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    What were they like before?
    They had Holy Strike/Crusader Strike type of system where you stack Holy Strike debuff on enemy and then do Crusader Strike for big whopping damage. Auras were more varied and Seals weren't Seals as they came to be but short term buffs you could give to others, a bit similiar to Blessings but lasted shorter and were more powerful. There were bunch of other stuff as well I don't remember off-hand but if you bought OG game on launch even the manual had Paladin class information all wrong with all of the old systems and shit because the change came just before release.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    They had Holy Strike/Crusader Strike type of system where you stack Holy Strike debuff on enemy and then do Crusader Strike for big whopping damage. Auras were more varied and Seals weren't Seals as they came to be but short term buffs you could give to others, a bit similiar to Blessings but lasted shorter and were more powerful. There were bunch of other stuff as well I don't remember off-hand but if you bought OG game on launch even the manual had Paladin class information all wrong with all of the old systems and shit because the change came just before release.
    That's interesting! Thanks! It's like the wotlk system kinda.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Maybe an entire outland continent on launch? Caverns of time too with the black morass and durnholde thrall rescue. Perhaps a grim batol raid? Karazhan is a given too. Then there's a raid portal under Mount Hyjal isn't there?
    I really don't think there was any plans to have another continent to be release.

    There are also a lot more dungeons/raid portals that are locked or were never opened (Stormwind, Temple of Arkkoran, Uldum, Stormrage Barrow Dens, etc..) as well as entire zones that are off limit, but looked like they just added a gate to close them off (Hyjal, Graymane). I don't know if the plan was to keep them as a possibility for future content patches, or if they just lacked time to implement them all. Later patches opened some of them (like ZG or AQ), while others did not.

    There are several quests that are deadends, but somewhat hint that they should have continued (Uldum, Essence of Eranikus, etc..). These were probably supposed to be tied to dungeons and/or raids, but were simply put on hold due to time constraints.

    The biggest thing that still needed a lot of work was some of the quests and a few zones that have very few quests and/or a very poor leveling path. Particularly, lvl40-50 is sort of a weird spot. Some zones are incredibly rich both in quests and story, while others are just a collection of poorly designed quests with no background.

    I think that the most obvious place where they had to wrap things up, and just made sure that you could get from 1-60, so they rushed some of the areas without thinking about it too much.

  13. #13
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Yes, we would have had all of that...

    Or you know what? None of that.
    They would still be making the game today adding 9 expansions worth of stuff.

    People seem to simply ignore that developing literally anything takes TIME and MONEY.
    Resources, mate.
    How long would it take for them implement what you wrote? And if there is no deadline, what else?
    Are they just infinitely stuck in developement forever?

    Yes, many things could have worked out better, Paladins were mentioned already, but it's not like the expansions we got later weren't AIMING at fixing the issues and improving on things that were not added initially...
    These are literally what the expansions are for.
    I think the general idea the OP is trying to make is more of a, "If the Devs had all the time to make the game as they envisioned it originally, what would it be like?"

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I think the general idea the OP is trying to make is more of a, "If the Devs had all the time to make the game as they envisioned it originally, what would it be like?"
    No, I got it.

    But sure, I'll play along then.
    Theoritically what we would have is Paladins being an actual class and more ground to walk on.
    That's it.

    The vast majority of actual gameplay systems were added to WoW way after Vanilla.
    And those systems were added to the game after years of research on actual gameplay and player feedback.
    So realistically, we would have a way more outdated (and much smaller) outland, emerald dream and whatever else zone they wanted to add in. Probably a few more dungeons.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Yes, we would have had all of that...

    Or you know what? None of that.
    They would still be making the game today adding 9 expansions worth of stuff.

    People seem to simply ignore that developing literally anything takes TIME and MONEY.
    Resources, mate.
    How long would it take for them implement what you wrote? And if there is no deadline, what else?
    Are they just infinitely stuck in developement forever?

    Yes, many things could have worked out better, Paladins were mentioned already, but it's not like the expansions we got later weren't AIMING at fixing the issues and improving on things that were not added initially...
    These are literally what the expansions are for.
    bro you missed the point completely

  16. #16
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    So realistically, we would have a way more outdated (and much smaller) outland, emerald dream and whatever else zone they wanted to add in. Probably a few more dungeons.
    Would have been worth it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  17. #17
    Death Knights and Necromancers would have been classes
    Hellfire Citadel would have been Black Temple (in the RTS this was one building, it was later retconned to be two different places), it would be a raid with Illadin still being the endgame boss.
    Paladin and Shamans would have been better balanced as their opposing yet same class, with Shaman Tank being a proper thing in the enhancement tree (though with each having only healer to be their raiding build, like all multirole classes)

  18. #18
    More time does not automatically result in better products. Since design of this kind has so many layers from strategy to execution, it could just as easily have led to second-guessing and purely administrative delays, inferior rework and more.

    Also: this was a moment in time. What would've happened if release was Q1 of '05? Or a year later?

    I see some reactions to skeptical answers but it's fair to point out how open-ended this is. Monumental projects are not garden hoses with which you predictably produce more stuff you want.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikah View Post
    I really don't think there was any plans to have another continent to be release.

    There are also a lot more dungeons/raid portals that are locked or were never opened (Stormwind, Temple of Arkkoran, Uldum, Stormrage Barrow Dens, etc..) as well as entire zones that are off limit, but looked like they just added a gate to close them off (Hyjal, Graymane). I don't know if the plan was to keep them as a possibility for future content patches, or if they just lacked time to implement them all. Later patches opened some of them (like ZG or AQ), while others did not.

    There are several quests that are deadends, but somewhat hint that they should have continued (Uldum, Essence of Eranikus, etc..). These were probably supposed to be tied to dungeons and/or raids, but were simply put on hold due to time constraints.

    The biggest thing that still needed a lot of work was some of the quests and a few zones that have very few quests and/or a very poor leveling path. Particularly, lvl40-50 is sort of a weird spot. Some zones are incredibly rich both in quests and story, while others are just a collection of poorly designed quests with no background.

    I think that the most obvious place where they had to wrap things up, and just made sure that you could get from 1-60, so they rushed some of the areas without thinking about it too much.
    Emerald Dream would probably be a thing too.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    Yes, we would have had all of that...

    Or you know what? None of that.
    They would still be making the game today adding 9 expansions worth of stuff.

    People seem to simply ignore that developing literally anything takes TIME and MONEY.
    Resources, mate.
    How long would it take for them implement what you wrote? And if there is no deadline, what else?
    Are they just infinitely stuck in developement forever?

    Yes, many things could have worked out better, Paladins were mentioned already, but it's not like the expansions we got later weren't AIMING at fixing the issues and improving on things that were not added initially...
    These are literally what the expansions are for.
    You must be fun at parties.

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