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  1. #1

    I'm worried: no casual content improvements for 9.1.5

    We see lots of improvements, arriving at 9.1.5 PTR. Yeah, 9.1.5 is hit or miss for Blizzard. It's critical patch to save Wow and not let it collapse. Problem, I currently see - is that all improvements are popular demands from hardcore guys like streamers, not actual players, like if Blizzard would value feedback from their streamers more, than players' feedback. Yeah, we have skipping lots of content, covenants swapping, conduits swapping, sending exceeding anima to alts, some improvements for Torghast, even Mage Tower. Don't you think, that this improvements are good for min-maxers only, who are hardcore players by definition? For players, who do raids, M+, get enough Anima as side product from "just doing content"? But just answer simple question. Do they give any goal to play game for casual players? What content casual players are expected to do? Leveling? Korthia? Maw? WQs? Do we have any improvements for this content? I don't see any. Is this content considered to be "perfect", that it doesn't need improvements?

    Overall casual goals from old xpacks:
    WotLK: Perform badge runs and pug raids
    Cata: Same, but overtuned content ruined this goal, may be LFR sets in 4.3
    MOP: Almost nothing, if you hate mandatory rep grinds and claustrophobic "sandbox" isles
    WOD: Garrison, Shipyard and Baleful gear, leveling itself was also great
    Legion: Class Hall, Class Hall set tranmog, Class Hall mount, artifacts, legendaries
    BFA: Almost nothing, except may be invasion transmogs, corrupted items were interesting, but leveling Cloak via visions was bad, 8.3 locations were badly designed too
    SL: Should have been Covenant sets and mounts, basic ones are easy to get, but leveling is too boring and tedious - others require Anima/Souls/Gifts grinds, that are way too bad for casual player. They mean explicit Anima grinding from WQs. Korthia improves situation a little bit, but it's still Maw 2.0. I don't play content without flying. Principally. And I don't see, why flying can't be implemented in Korthia.

    I returned home after summer vocation and decided to give SL content another chance. I'm trying to do this content now and it's terrible. I don't think, that 9.1.5 will make me play SL, if there won't be any improvements for it.

    What do you think? Is it real situation, that casual content doesn't need any improvements in 9.1.5? If so, then, I guess, Wow is lost for me. May be forever.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-09-09 at 08:47 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #2
    In truth i think its fine. Realistically as a casual my whole gameplay revolved around 1. The main story stuff. 2. Nice comfy high ilvl grinding for just doing day to day stuff. 3. Random chores for things like pathfinder/legos. 4. Transmog and mount farming. 5. Alts. And 6. Other random miscellaneous stuff.

    Were i to come back after dropping my sub in january (i appreciate that i might be unique and that loyal wow casual players held on to their sub throughout), I get the following:

    1. More story chains. Both from the general storyline and the ease of covenant switching and improved catch up mechanics.
    2. A fairer catch up system. Sure, getting ilvl 197 for free was nice. But it was too easy to get. I dont mean it was amazing or anything, just that it required only the completion of the weekly quests. Outside of that, you got conduits and gold (and a trickle of anima). Now with the korthia stuff, its a more standard rep grind. Which i prefer. I can do it at my own pace and would actually have stuff i could work on over the course of the week instead of waiting for my three hours of progression content every week at reset.
    3. Not sure about the Torghast changes entirely, but the recent collapse in price for base items definitely makes them more accessible. Plus, the book of secrets or whatever it is, adds a sort of power increase similar to the cloak from BfA which may even encourage me to push a bit harder. (oh, and no three deaths and byebye!, which definitely encourages me to push.)
    4. The anima changes seem to have been rather generous (i think this goes back to 9.0.5 hotfix with the multiples on rewards from owning capped out anima dumps??? but definitely with the introduction of korthia). It seems like people are now seeing the benefits and swimming in it. This makes all those covenant rewards/reskins/recolors maybe worth pursuing as an actual goal rather than something i just completely ignored (because the time vs reward was WAY off!). Of course, id still have to work on all this. But the point is, i now have something fun to work on.
    Also, Legion mythic is gonna be soloable at last. Yeesh. Finally. It'll be fun running those places for transmog. Definitely an 'off the clock' time filler.
    5.Ah alts. Just the idea of making my poor alt go through all the same bullshit my main went through (of boring tedious unrewarding gameplay for a below trivial reward), makes this the expansion (thus far) with the least play time on any of my alts... its zero. I havent spent a single minute on an alt. With a lot of these changes (and more account unlocks), i feel like they might be fun again. EVEN IF ONLY for doing the other covenant stories, or just farming anima/gold, or just trying out how the other half lives in torghast, or what legendaries/conduits/soulbinds they can play with or even just what transmogs i can find in Legion mythics.
    6. Who knows... maybe theyll have other goodies i suddenly want to play with. Perhaps the new pvp ilvl boosts for the lower brackets actually help a bit? I wont know until people start reviewing it on forums (or i see for myself). Maybe i wanna do the mega dungeon and the criteria is where mechagon was a few months after its release...

    Overall, theres lots to look forward to when i come back (wont be until at least october, and if theyre putting it up against endwalker, it wont be until at least new year).

    The big takeaway for me though is that i no longer get three hours of meaningful play time per week and then a lot of treading water waiting for reset. I have reasons to do more things in game and a lot of stuff to either catch up on, grind out, or play for pure enjoyment over the entire course of the week. Plus, i honestly think they were just gonna follow the formula in 9.2. Now i genuinely think they might be turning a corner. I mean, proof of the pudding and all that. Im more suspicious. Ive always preordered because i know im going to play the expansion at some point. But this time, no chance. So i HOPE its a genuine change for the better. But they dont get a free pass this time.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-09-09 at 09:51 AM.

  3. #3
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    I vote for battle pet dungeon. Just imagine this. I laugh so hard to even think about it.

  4. #4
    As for me, minimal requirement - is flying in Korthia/Maw. Flying from at least at 20lvl would be nice too, because 30 isn't even old 60. Leveling is fast till 20, so no flying is bearable there, but 30 requires one whole location to be completed in order to get to it and it ruins whole fun. It won't fix current reward structure, but at least will make content more bearable.

    Other QOL changes would be nice. Such as instant portals, connecting all locations with Oribos. Flying in Oribos. No "no mount" rooms in Oribos. No weird "loading screen" between Oribos floors. More gear rewards during leveling, as leveling via dungeons causes falling behind and making content too hard as result. Overall faster leveling. I was able to level with Heirlooms via 1.5 locations back in Legion. Now I have to complete all 4 locations, that is long and boring. Remove Covenant campaign requirement from Coventant rewards - they should be obtainable via Anima only. Remove souls. Remove gifts. Give 1k anima for completing every calling. Overall increase of Anima rewards.

    And only then it's possible, that SL's casual content will be bearable.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  5. #5
    Are you a casual? Here on the forums? Then what content do you need improving?
    As a casual, it means you dont do any of the 3 main endgame content: raiding, M+, PVP. Anything else is just you calling yourself casual.
    Which means everything else left is casual content: leveling, doing c covenant campaigns, pet battles, xmog collecting etc. Alt leveling has been improved (i am waiting to send anima to my alts). Renown is given by buying an item. Souls now couht form Torghast. I feel this is a big deal already.

    But if you are thinking content to do... Not much for anyone. Like anyone at all.
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2021-09-09 at 10:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Game needs more casual fun content but you can totally be a casual and be interested in solo content like twisting corridors/ visions/ mage tower, and obviously, power progression that are mostly passive like covenants, azerite armour balance, legendaries or artifact weapon balance.

    You can be a casual and play a small ammount of time but wanting your character to be as powerful as you can without doing group content that requires a steady ammount of time or effort to complete.

    So yeah 9.1.5 brings some changes to that that so its fine, "casual" means you play a small ammount of time, not that you are not interested in hard content.

  7. #7
    Welcome to World Of Warcraft....Where the developers don't give a shit about their player Base. Just their MAU's. Enjoy your stay.
    Be careful who you chat it up with here on these forums. If you are NOT for WoW and about WoW, people will report whatever you say and get you banned

  8. #8
    Wait, which casuals are we gonna talk about?

    The true casuals that dont even know mmo-champion exists and dont even know what the hell exists in the game and have their own fun.

    Or the self-proclaimed casuals?

    This forum and pretty much every other forum thats WoW related always ends up to the same discussion, that the self-proclaimed casuals dont care about the content itself, they want it to reward something that it should not reward for the difficulty or they cant accept they are burnt out of how the system of MMO works.

    I will use your own sentence: "Legion: Class Hall, Class Hall set tranmog, Class Hall mount, artifacts, legendaries"

    How is this casual content, all of those stuff in that list came passively by playing 1 hour on Wednesday for a few weeks back then, what is exactly is "content" from those irrelevant things?

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    They can't add content for casuals in a quick bandaid fix patch. That needs actual development and assets made for it. 9.1.5 is only system fixes, any new content will come in 9.2.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Are you a casual? Here on the forums? Then what content do you need improving?
    As a casual, it means you dont do any of the 3 main endgame content: raiding, M+, PVP. Anything else is just you calling yourself casual.
    Which means everything else left is casual content: leveling, doing c covenant campaigns, pet battles, xmog collecting etc. Alt leveling has been improved (i am waiting to send anima to my alts). Renown is given by buying an item. Souls now couht form Torghast. I feel this is a big deal already.

    But if you are thinking content to do... Not much for anyone. Like anyone at all.
    Yeah, I'm exact player, who don't do raiding, M+ and PVP. Because such kinds of content would put too many obligations on me. Including social obligations. Because you can't just join guild and say "carry me", as it's claimed by some pro-social guys here. You must do something in return. Such as doing some group content with them, when they call you, even when you want to do your own business. And whole casual gameplay is about doing things today, you have good mood for. I don't do PVP not because it's not casual, but because Meta things are more punishing there. And Meta "discipline" - is one of that "obligations" thing. You're forced to play certain way just to be "competitive" enough to have fun game. If you decide to play game your way - you most likely gimp yourself and fall behind. And if falling behind isn't that bad in PVE, in PVP it's much more sensible.

    And therefore, yeah. Casual content "route" - is my biggest problem now. What goal should I have in mind, when I create new alt to level? That I'll level him to 60, skip everything, may be get basic Covenant rewards for doing campaign for 2 days. And what's next? That's it? Just a few days of endgame playing and I need to level new character? You know. When leveling and endgame aren't balanced - you usually start to get sick of leveling pretty fast.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-09-09 at 10:34 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    And therefore, yeah. Casual content "route" - is my biggest problem now. What goal should I have in mind, when I create new alt to level? That I'll level him to 60, skip everything, may be get basic Covenant rewards for doing campaign for 2 days. And what's next? That's it? Just a few days of endgame playing and I need to level new character? You know. When leveling and endgame aren't balanced - you usually start to get sick of leveling pretty fast.
    Your inability to challenge yourself and try to engage with different content isn't a fault of the game.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord
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    From OP post I assume casual is pretty rare beast. It's someone that doesn't like raiding, M+, PVP, collecting stuff, progress his char or play alts.

    In real world casual is someone who is just not invested in WoW and play it from time to time without thinking much about it. Skilled casual can do far more difficult content than people playing alts or collecting stuff 24/7. And casual creating threads about game design on niche fan forum is oxymoron.

  13. #13
    I don't get why you need improvement or more.... there is still more stuff to do outside of Mythic+/PvP/Raiding than nearly ever before... Like you soursefl actually listed.
    There wasn't even anything in classic in BC.

    You do NOT want to do anything endgame related. No difficulty whatsoever. But you do want more loot.

    Why the actuall f are you playing this game? You don't like the stuff you can do. Which is more than nearly ever before.

  14. #14
    So for OP the definition of casual is: give me everything for free and right now.

    Dude, go away.

  15. #15
    Casuals will be grinding relics till 10.0

  16. #16
    Sorry dude, thread is about to go off the rails.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Antontein View Post
    So for OP the definition of casual is: give me everything for free and right now.

    Dude, go away.
    Bro have you seen his history?
    His definition of hardcore is anything harder than an Elwyn Boar

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Sorry dude, thread is about to go off the rails.
    Trust me he isn't sorry...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Bro have you seen his history?
    His definition of hardcore is anything harder than an Elwyn Boar

    - - - Updated - - -



    Trust me he isn't sorry...
    Honestly, i think he is. He just wants a more chill experience. And wants to advocate for it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    We see lots of improvements, arriving at 9.1.5 PTR. Yeah, 9.1.5 is hit or miss for Blizzard. It's critical patch to save Wow and not let it collapse. Problem, I currently see - is that all improvements are popular demands from hardcore guys like streamers, not actual players, like if Blizzard would value feedback from their streamers more, than players' feedback. Yeah, we have skipping lots of content, covenants swapping, conduits swapping, sending exceeding anima to alts, some improvements for Torghast, even Mage Tower. Don't you think, that this improvements are good for min-maxers only, who are hardcore players by definition? For players, who do raids, M+, get enough Anima as side product from "just doing content"? But just answer simple question. Do they give any goal to play game for casual players? What content casual players are expected to do? Leveling? Korthia? Maw? WQs? Do we have any improvements for this content? I don't see any. Is this content considered to be "perfect", that it doesn't need improvements?

    Overall casual goals from old xpacks:
    WotLK: Perform badge runs and pug raids
    Cata: Same, but overtuned content ruined this goal, may be LFR sets in 4.3
    MOP: Almost nothing, if you hate mandatory rep grinds and claustrophobic "sandbox" isles
    WOD: Garrison, Shipyard and Baleful gear, leveling itself was also great
    Legion: Class Hall, Class Hall set tranmog, Class Hall mount, artifacts, legendaries
    BFA: Almost nothing, except may be invasion transmogs, corrupted items were interesting, but leveling Cloak via visions was bad, 8.3 locations were badly designed too
    SL: Should have been Covenant sets and mounts, basic ones are easy to get, but leveling is too boring and tedious - others require Anima/Souls/Gifts grinds, that are way too bad for casual player. They mean explicit Anima grinding from WQs. Korthia improves situation a little bit, but it's still Maw 2.0. I don't play content without flying. Principally. And I don't see, why flying can't be implemented in Korthia.

    I returned home after summer vocation and decided to give SL content another chance. I'm trying to do this content now and it's terrible. I don't think, that 9.1.5 will make me play SL, if there won't be any improvements for it.

    What do you think? Is it real situation, that casual content doesn't need any improvements in 9.1.5? If so, then, I guess, Wow is lost for me. May be forever.
    popular demands from hardcore guys like streamers, not actual players ?? you are disconnected from wow ? alot of chill players raid and wanted those changes
    not everyone who optimize or trys to improve is hardcore players, stop exaggerating
    your definition of hardcore players are wrong man, if some guy wanted to try pvp and saw that X covenant is best for him which happens to be not his, this change is good for him and doesn't make him hardcore
    you sound like you are sensitive when it comes to minmaxing because deep down you know u suck at the game, i mean who would take your post seriously if you can't distinguish between hardcore and ppl who just want to be better at what they do

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Your inability to challenge yourself and try to engage with different content isn't a fault of the game.
    Define "challenge" please. If you talk about "try to find some extra content for yourself" - then yeah, it's not bad advice. But if you imply "do harder content" - then it's not good advice. Because casual and challenge are incompatible things. Challenge requires things like training and some trial'n'error. And this means more time to play, more discipline, more obligations.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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