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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If blizzard makes their game worse to prey on people with fomo problems, the game is still made worse for all of us, so it objectively is not a personal problem. These design decisions do not only impact those people. They change the game for all of us.

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    When blizzard designs the game a certain way to invoke certain emotions, that isn’t a personal problem. That’s a game design problem. Arrogantly, condescendingly pointing at people and telling them to feel differently doesn’t magically transform bad design into good design.

    The overwhelming amount of time gating and other time limitation methods blizzard uses doesn’t make the game better for anyone. It makes the game worse for you, just so that they can capitalize on someone else’s FOMO. You are almost literally thanking blizzard for making the game worse for you because you are getting some kind of perverse satisfaction out of knowing that the bad design is worse for someone else than it is for you.

    This is why cancerous, anti-empathy logic ruins things for everyone. You are so busy pointing fingers at the FOMO people that you don’t care that Blizzard is making the game worse for you too just to prey on those people.
    Nothing wrong with limited runs. But if we go this route then every business practice is predatory and we should just stop supporting everything. Item goes on sale for the weekend, predatory. New product has a initial sale, predatory. New customer deals, predatory, returning customer deals, predatory.

    No business is allowed to do anything to generate revenue through deals since it's predatory and feeds on FOMO. Stop worrying limited run items in games. If you have the time and get them bonus, if not oh well. Worrying about this shit, all over, not just in games is bad. Just don't worry.

    Frankly, if I cared, I'd be excited to give the Mage Tower a shot again on some other classes for some neat re-skins. There have been plenty of games that have gotten me to come back for a go by offering something I was interested in doing or obtaining. I just don't see an issue.

  2. #102
    No amount of FOMO will make me come back this expansion

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    However, Timewalking doesn't have any of those upsides. Blizzard could simply allow us to run any dungeon from any expansion. This bizarre obsession with time gating, shelving old content, etc. is a distinctly WoW problem. Other MMOs don't do this, and it has become a bigger and bigger problem as time has gone on and the amount of content that is relevant has become a smaller and smaller percentage of the game. The WORLD of warcraft is extensive, gigantic, and full of massive amounts of content... and Blizzard chooses to hide most of it away or deprecate it. It's bizarre.
    Blizzard doesn't stop you from running dungeons from other expansions in any way, what you want is the upgraded loot and that is a perk of timewalking.

  4. #104
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Nothing? Which timewalking reward was ever taken away?
    Look at who you are qouting.
    realize how many braincells you have lost just trying to understand them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    seems? lol
    they're abusing this method since years...
    funny cause blizz tried to remove FOMO and got death threats by the community so much so they backed out and kept it.
    - rated pvp, they tried to make old sets obtainable for people who reach 2100 in new seasons.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Siryukon View Post
    Weeeeeelllll.. It also heavily depends on how the company is introducing it. MT is already know as being this timed thing back in Legion, so it doesn't surprise me that some people respond the way that they do regarding FOMO.

    Yes, it's their own fault for not participating/being able to play/unsubbed during the timeset in Legion. But it's rehashing the same thing, giving off the exact same vibe.
    Exactly. This is the part people conveniently miss. When Blizzard announced Patch 7.2 at Blizzcon 2016, they explicitly stated the Mage Tower would be Legion's equivalent to the Challenge Mode Dungeons of MoP and WoD and that they would go away when Patch 9.0 went live at the end of the expansion. So people had just under 2 years warning.

    Second, they built in several nerfs for it to help players achieve it as it was balanced around having Tomb of Sargeras gear from Normal (iLvl 900). So even Antorus LFR gear was a nerf (iLvl 915). Then came the artifact endless skill that boosted its damage every time you went up a level. And finally the artifact super charge were we all jumped to over level 100 on the weapons and they constantly gained AP, even when offline, at a rate that saw it passively level at least once a day or so. All of this to help people get these things in Legion. They even bypassed the mechanic of the Broken Shore that saw the tower destroyed after three days forcing us to build it again so people had 24/7 access to it for over a month.

    If people missed out, then that's their issue. Not Blizzard's.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Blizzard doesn't stop you from running dungeons from other expansions in any way, what you want is the upgraded loot and that is a perk of timewalking.
    What I want is to be able to play that content at a reasonably appropriate difficulty level with substantive rewards, and Blizzard lets me do that on a schedule for no reason when the content could simply be available that way all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Nothing wrong with limited runs. But if we go this route then every business practice is predatory and we should just stop supporting everything. Item goes on sale for the weekend, predatory. New product has a initial sale, predatory. New customer deals, predatory, returning customer deals, predatory.

    No business is allowed to do anything to generate revenue through deals since it's predatory and feeds on FOMO. Stop worrying limited run items in games. If you have the time and get them bonus, if not oh well. Worrying about this shit, all over, not just in games is bad. Just don't worry.

    Frankly, if I cared, I'd be excited to give the Mage Tower a shot again on some other classes for some neat re-skins. There have been plenty of games that have gotten me to come back for a go by offering something I was interested in doing or obtaining. I just don't see an issue.
    When Blizzard is making the game *worse* in order to prey on fomo, that effects me whether I give into it or not. It’s not like I can ignore the time gating, rapid deprecation of content, or constant times events. It’s not like I can close my eyes and magically the game doesn’t have those design principles.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    What I want is to be able to play that content at a reasonably appropriate difficulty level with substantive rewards, and Blizzard lets me do that on a schedule for no reason when the content could simply be available that way all the time.

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    When Blizzard is making the game *worse* in order to prey on fomo, that effects me whether I give into it or not. It’s not like I can ignore the time gating, rapid deprecation of content, or constant times events. It’s not like I can close my eyes and magically the game doesn’t have those design principles.
    How many MMOs let you do old dungeons for current rewards other then currency?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    But if we go this route then every business practice is predatory
    Ah, so you are finally getting it. You just have to make that jump into understanding that what you present as a mere exaggeration is actual reality.

    Non-predatory businesses don't exist. They're called nonprofit organizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Item goes on sale for the weekend, predatory. New product has a initial sale, predatory. New customer deals, predatory, returning customer deals, predatory.

    No business is allowed to do anything to generate revenue through deals since it's predatory and feeds on FOMO.
    Correct, all of this is predatory. The question is not whether business is predatory, but rather what kind of predatory practices are healthy and which are not. The critical logic error that you're making here is that special deals, time-limited sales, etc., are necessary to generate revenue and profit. They're not. The only "necessary" part about them is businesses need to keep up with what everyone else is doing if they want to stay in business.

    What you are listening though is not "business". It's an arms race in psychological warfare on consumers. The only reason it happens is because competing businesses try to recreate a level playing field each time a competitor creates an advantage for itself. Whenever a corporation employs a successful new form of psychological manipulation of its customers, every other corporation is forced to follow or face significant market and revenue loss. In economics, this is called the principle of minimum differentiation, or Hotelling's law.

    Revenue generation doesn't happen because of this arms race, but in spite of it. Outlawing psychological tricks forces corporations to focus on the quality of their product to gain a competitive edge, rather than on an arms race that ultimately benefits no one. Unregulated markets exert downward pressure on product quality at increased cost to the consumer. The only way to counteract that is by regulating the business practices and minimum quality levels.

    The gaming business is largely unregulated, hence the explosion of predatory tactics and the plummeting quality of AAA games in the recent decade. It's all related.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It isn't the company's fault that someone is triggered about missing out on stuff?
    Should massive gambling schemes be allowed because it's not the company's fault that someone is triggered into gambling their life savings?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Some FOMO is good, because it makes you do something. The only reason there was a huge rush doing the magetower at the end of legion is because it was going away. As long as it's not overdone it can be an impetus to act as well. If everything is always available and very easy 10 years into the future, why would you do anything now?
    FOMO is never good for the players. Only for the company making money off those players. You want an impetus to play a game? Then make it actually fun to play (I know, what a novel idea...). Limited time rewards are just a low effort way to tap into that psychological desire to not get left behind. In the long run it makes for a toxic mentality where many players no longer simply play whenever they feel enjoyment but instead feel frustration at having to play at certain times in order to not miss out on things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It isn't the company's fault that someone is triggered about missing out on stuff?
    Of course it's their "fault". It's a very deliberate, predatory tactic on their part. A similar example would be casinos. Everything about them is designed to keep people spending money by tapping into various psychological impulses. The only difference is that no one (with any brain cells at least) is under any illusion as to what casinos are doing and the fact that they try very hard to make money off people with impulse problems. Everyone knows casinos use a pretty scummy business model. Gaming companies using FOMO are doing exactly the same thing.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2021-09-21 at 05:56 AM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is definete FOMO atm with people being forced to sub now to gear their chars so they can do mage tower once it is releaed in 3-4months because onl ytiem they can do it wil lbe once every half of year.

    its disgusting predatory tactics.

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    there is nothign that suggest this to be true

    for al lwe know it may be 1 time thing that wont return for years and once again without original or sl version of transmogs .
    the only disgusting thing here would be your blatant lies and deception to gain some weird internet clout by fitting in with the "cool kids"

    Every indication is that it is NOT a one time thing and Legion timewalking and it's at least 3 times a year. Also the first time will be 2 weeks long according to the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I mean it’s 1 week in every 6 month period, you could very easily just forget about it or be busy the next time it comes around. Sure that’s not exactly the same as a brutosaur but it can feel the same.

    I can’t think of a good reason to not keep timewalking up all of the time, rotating weekly versus monthly. Not for any gameplay reason at least. Or did something change that I missed?
    18 weeks is not 6 months....

  12. #112
    why is mage tower returning how can blizzard not have time to make a "new" Mage tower?

    Its just a single player instance that is not meant to be done "over and over and over", and the last part is nice it being single player makes it pretty boring.

  13. #113
    OP has just heard the term on the internet, probably like a week ago, and now decided to brag about that knowledge, without providing any substance to their argument whatsoever.

    And mmo-c commenters turned this argument-barren OP into a 6 page thread. So basically as usual
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    I dunno i heard the word on reddit.
    So blizzard is “doing something that you don’t understand or know the meaning of” to keep players subscribed / joining back. Do you at least know how to put into words what they are doing to keep people subscribed or are you just being an annoying troll? My bets are on the troll statement

  15. #115
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Of course it's their "fault". It's a very deliberate, predatory tactic on their part. A similar example would be casinos. Everything about them is designed to keep people spending money by tapping into various psychological impulses. The only difference is that no one (with any brain cells at least) is under any illusion as to what casinos are doing and the fact that they try very hard to make money off people with impulse problems. Everyone knows casinos use a pretty scummy business model. Gaming companies using FOMO are doing exactly the same thing.
    It is their fault for using a relatively common business model in not only the gaming industry but in general business as a method, the FOMO is a personal problem that a company cannot be held accountable for. Else we were to blame every company that sells a limited item, which is almost every company existing.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2021-09-21 at 07:06 AM.
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn20 View Post
    I absolutely agree. It's not so much that there's a lack of content so to speak, but that rotating it monthly feels like there's 3 weeks of 'downtime' for people who perhaps aren't all the interested in the raiding or PVP scene. Nostalgia is a strong force, and I've no doubt that plenty of people would like to revisit older content more often than timewalking allows.

    I know I personally prefer Wrath content over just about anything that's ever been released (I've always loved the aesthetics and music scores that they used), but limiting it to once every 6 months if you want it to present some semblance of challenge means I'm just less likely to bother at all. That's not to say timewalking is a challenge in itself, but it's more challenging than revisiting the non-timewalking versions.

    I don't know what I'll be doing in 6 months time. Missing out on a timewalking reward for a specific expansion is frustrating because by the time it rolls around next, my interest in the game might have waned.

    I'd say the same about the PVP events. I can't think of a reason they couldn't run 2 or 3 every week. They switched them to weekly in 9.1 apparently, but there's still ~12 events, so it's 3 months between full cycle rotations. Making it so that you can play each event for an entire week each month would be better. I know there were only a few PVP events I was interested in, and the last time I was excited to try out Tarren Mill vs Southshore, they moved back by a month or 2 because of technical issues.

    FOMO wouldn't be enough to get me to resub. I've no real interest in investing huge chunks of time into something I can only do once every half a year. There's certainly things I have gone FOMO on, but WoW is not one of them, not these days.

    TLDR: Higher frequency of 'limited time' content = more variety for people to invest their time in.
    Well I find it better that Timewalking is not up all the time. I don't have the time to play it even with the current system. TW being available every week on rotation would not do anything good for me but increase stress that I cannot participate in this content. I am still working on other things in SL and I only got 5 characters on max level which is a very small number compared to the previous expansions (since WoD).

    I am happy that I can replay Mage Tower encounters once in a while when Legion TW hits, and since it will be returning on rotation, I am fine.
    This is not FOMO. The original Mage Tower was FOMO, but even then you had more time to finish all that compared to MoP challenges.
    Of course, we had WoD before Legion, where I had plenty of time to level alts because WoD casual content was almost nonexistant pre-Tanaan.

  17. #117
    I literally had to google 'what is FOMO'.
    Holy f... these new terms...

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    I literally had to google 'what is FOMO'.
    Holy f... these new terms...
    "Fear Of Missing Out" is not a new concept on videogames though.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    "Fear Of Missing Out" is not a new concept on videogames though.
    First used in 2004... and it is not a new concept?
    I am 32 soon... and sometimes feel like i am soooo old...

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    First used in 2004... and it is not a new concept?
    I am 32 soon... and sometimes feel like i am soooo old...
    Yeah, sorry mate, 2004 was a long time ago. It flies by.

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