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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    You both couldn't be more wrong. Games aren't designed for you individually. They are designed for larger target audiences. Ergo: the psychology that a design preys upon reveals the intent towards a group, even when -you- individually don't fall prey to it. Put another way: you may personally not be addicted to gambling or drugs, but that doesn't make casinos and drug dealers any less responsible for the harm that befalls people who do fall prey to their psychological traps.

    At the end of the day, Blizzard is a business, and mass psychological engineering is what sells their products. Blaming players for falling into the psychological traps that developers lay out is akin to blaming addicts for their addiction. Addicts don't go looking for addictions, but dealers sure go looking for potential addicts with intent. It is no coincidence that online games resemble casinos more and more. FOMO is but one tactic in the arsenal of predators, but it is one that works particularly well in the virtual space because there is no cost to controlling supply, and there's a very large supply of potential customers who haven't seen through it (yet) as you both (might) have.

    The question isn't whether FOMO is real, or who's to blame for it (both have very clear cut answers), but rather what degree of it is permissible in a commercial context. Unfortunately game design has become such that the question now requires an answer through legislation, as the scale of it vastly overshadows it as a "personal issue".
    This is a two way street, games also aren't targeted at you, just because you have issues to do with gaming doesn't mean companies are specifically targeting you. Not every bar and brewery is trying to create or exploit alcoholics, most just want to create a pleasant experience. For all people like to cry about "psychological manipulation" ultimately it boils down to creating something people enjoy doing - Vanilla in particular could be seen as being especially "addictive" (or "predatory" if you prefer) but I think that's more down to the devs creating a fun game than the original WoW crew enlisting psychologists to create a deliberately manipulative product.

    Holidays and Timewalking have been in the game for years, Holidays since Vanilla, and this is the first time I've seen someone compare them to casinos or say they need regulating out. While I am sorry that you have some sort of gaming disorder it seems a bit extreme taking these events away from everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    When blizzard designs the game a certain way to invoke certain emotions, that isn’t a personal problem. That’s a game design problem. Arrogantly, condescendingly pointing at people and telling them to feel differently doesn’t magically transform bad design into good design.

    The overwhelming amount of time gating and other time limitation methods blizzard uses doesn’t make the game better for anyone. It makes the game worse for you, just so that they can capitalize on someone else’s FOMO. You are almost literally thanking blizzard for making the game worse for you because you are getting some kind of perverse satisfaction out of knowing that the bad design is worse for someone else than it is for you.

    This is why cancerous, anti-empathy logic ruins things for everyone. You are so busy pointing fingers at the FOMO people that you don’t care that Blizzard is making the game worse for you too just to prey on those people.
    When you get a negative emotion from not doing something instead of a positive emotion for achieving it that is a you problem. There are tonnes of things in WoW that I'm never going to complete, from high-end raids to PvP achievements to massive collections to most seasonal/limited events. If I was inclined to feel miserable about things I can't or don't want to do rather than happy about the things I do, I would have quit WoW back in Vanilla.

  2. #122
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Should massive gambling schemes be allowed because it's not the company's fault that someone is triggered into gambling their life savings?
    Not comparable with FOMO. Even so, there are gambling restrictions and licensing needed to operate such, and once they have the licenses, the companies will all run their business on the fact that they are permitted to sell you the thrill and excitement of a winning chance, meanwhile, in some countries, there would be posters saying "Beware of the dangers of gambling" while some waiter is eagerly leading you to the next table with a drink.

    FOMO is NOT in the same category as Ludomania, but both are a personal problem which people need to seek counseling in an attempt to manage it. Just because the problem exists within some people does not mean that all companies in the world must adhere to these personal mental issues. Do you claim FOMO because you didn't get to watch a TV show when it was out? Do you claim FOMO for now having a phone model when it was new? Do you claim FOMO when not being able to get all features in one choice, when multiple choices are needed for all features? If you say yes to any of this, and you do have a FOMO problem - then Blizzard is not the only company on your hate list, but EVERY DAMN BUSINESS WHO HAS HAD A SERVICE, ITEM, PRODUCT, EXPERIENCE that can expire or be limited.

    If you bring FOMO into a complaint about a company releasing products and updating products, then you are bringing yourself into a deep void of personal mental unrest, and you need to seek professional guidance before it takes you out.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It is their fault for using a relatively common business model in not only the gaming industry but in general business as a method, the FOMO is a personal problem that a company cannot be held accountable for. Else we were to blame every company that sells a limited item, which is almost every company existing.
    You're wrong. Tapping into FOMO is a business tactic. Pure and simple. The argument isn't that Blizzard is unique in exploiting impulse to make money. Often times people aren't aware of the tactics used against them. That's the beauty of tapping into subconscious urges. The point is that in most other cases people at least aren't brainwashed to the point where they think that those tactics are actually in the interest of the consumer.

    Exploiting FOMO isn't something video games (or games in general) did until recently. Back in the day games had to rely on actually being well made and fun to play. FOMO is a more recent tactic in the gaming industry that came about with things like subscriptions and micro-transactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Do you claim FOMO because you didn't get to watch a TV show when it was out? Do you claim FOMO for now having a phone model when it was new? Do you claim FOMO when not being able to get all features in one choice, when multiple choices are needed for all features? If you say yes to any of this, and you do have a FOMO problem - then Blizzard is not the only company on your hate list, but EVERY DAMN BUSINESS WHO HAS HAD A SERVICE, ITEM, PRODUCT, EXPERIENCE that can expire or be limited.
    It's pretty clear from this that you don't understand what FOMO is with respect to business tactics.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Not comparable with FOMO. Even so, there are gambling restrictions and licensing needed to operate such, and once they have the licenses, the companies will all run their business on the fact that they are permitted to sell you the thrill and excitement of a winning chance, meanwhile, in some countries, there would be posters saying "Beware of the dangers of gambling" while some waiter is eagerly leading you to the next table with a drink.

    FOMO is NOT in the same category as Ludomania, but both are a personal problem which people need to seek counseling in an attempt to manage it. Just because the problem exists within some people does not mean that all companies in the world must adhere to these personal mental issues. Do you claim FOMO because you didn't get to watch a TV show when it was out? Do you claim FOMO for now having a phone model when it was new? Do you claim FOMO when not being able to get all features in one choice, when multiple choices are needed for all features? If you say yes to any of this, and you do have a FOMO problem - then Blizzard is not the only company on your hate list, but EVERY DAMN BUSINESS WHO HAS HAD A SERVICE, ITEM, PRODUCT, EXPERIENCE that can expire or be limited.

    If you bring FOMO into a complaint about a company releasing products and updating products, then you are bringing yourself into a deep void of personal mental unrest, and you need to seek professional guidance before it takes you out.
    It's not that black and white. But good job excusing predatory business practices, I guess. lol

  5. #125
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    It's pretty clear from this that you don't understand what FOMO is with respect to business tactics.
    Well, if FOMO is what it is titled as, then it is a behavior that'll turn a person into a victim with any action of people experiencing something they might have been able to participate in, like a company that develops and updates their market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    It's not that black and white. But good job excusing predatory business practices, I guess. lol
    So, it is a predatory business practice to develop, update, relaunch, or innovate your products?
    Last edited by Gehco; 2021-09-21 at 08:25 AM.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post


    funny cause blizz tried to remove FOMO and got death threats by the community so much so they backed out and kept it.
    - rated pvp, they tried to make old sets obtainable for people who reach 2100 in new seasons.
    they never tried to remove FOMO, they proposed to add back those pvp sets, one type of reward out of countless lol
    this isn't even something very mainstream due to the rating, something mainstream would be things like the shadowlands pre launch event, things they remove at the end of an expansion just because, and so on

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    So, it is a predatory business practice to develop, update, relaunch, or innovate your products?
    That's one way to describe it, sure.

    Gambling is just nurturing the curiosity of outcome to criative people, as well as improving their mathematical abilities with probability calculations that, mind you, will be a boon for life.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    That's one way to describe it, sure.
    So, the industry of the world is one giant FOMO warning, and you'd rather blame everyone for doing wrong by developing/releasing/redesigning/innovating/updating/relaunching than admit that a minority needs help with this problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Gambling is just nurturing the curiosity of outcome to criative people, as well as improving their mathematical abilities with probability calculations that, mind you, will be a boon for life.
    Some people, who do not hold a problem with gambling, do see gambling as a challenge and also know when to cease their actions. It is at the point where people do not know when to stop, that is when you have an issue and need help. As I've heard of FOMO, their point is when they believe they actually feel forced to do something or else they somehow 'lose out' which is a stage where you need to seek help but unlike gambling, FOMO can come out of a lot of actions such as; not being able to go out when your friends are, not being able to obtain an item when everyone else are, not being able to buy something when others are, not being able to go somewhere when others are - at this point, if you feel forced to go forward with your actions, be it hurtful for you physical, financial or mentally to make the choice, you need help then.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2021-09-21 at 08:36 AM.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, if FOMO is what it is titled as, then it is a behavior that'll turn a person into a victim with any action of any company that develops and updates their market.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, it is a predatory business practice to develop, update, relaunch, or innovate your products?
    Products going through typical update cycles and shelf lives isn't a FOMO tactic. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

  10. #130
    they do this because the simple people of the world love it.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Products going through typical update cycles and shelf lives isn't a FOMO tactic. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
    Is FOMO not the 'Fear Of Missing Out'?

    "anxiety that an exciting or interesting event may currently be happening elsewhere, often aroused by posts seen on social media."

    As in, things such as launching new products, services, competitions, developments, and the likes?

    FOMO is down to the person, some find excitement or interest in many things. I know some that have this issue with social activities (Friends goes for a party, she HAVE to go too. Friends go on vacation, she HAS to go too), and others are people who believe they lose out if they do not get the newest of a brand, a very common problem within Gucci and Apple communities, where people get into financial problems just to get the newest.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2021-09-21 at 08:46 AM.
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Is FOMO not the 'Fear Of Missing Out'?

    "anxiety that an exciting or interesting event may currently be happening elsewhere, often aroused by posts seen on social media.".
    I like how the trick is to not use it in context of video-game development. lul

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    I like how the trick is to not use it in context of video-game development. lul
    My apologies, but are you not known with it being a bigger problem for individuals than businesses? My quote was just copied from one of many sites that says almost the same thing.

    Businesses do what they do best. They develop a product, launch it, update it, cycle it, relaunches, innovate it. This is why I do not see FOMO being a business issue that can be handled but a personal issue. FOMO isn't locked in video game development alone. A game company can cycle content just like any other business, the only benefit for a game company is that it can choose to BLOAT its content to avoid anyone feeling FOMO but then it'll also lose flavor for everyone else who believe they have worked hard on obtaining something, diminishing their own achievements for having others be able to pursue it as well.
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Is FOMO not the 'Fear Of Missing Out'?

    "anxiety that an exciting or interesting event may currently be happening elsewhere, often aroused by posts seen on social media."

    As in, things such as launching new products, services, competitions, developments, and the likes?

    FOMO is down to the person, some find excitement or interest in many things. I know some that have this issue with social activities (Friends goes for a party, she HAVE to go too. Friends go on vacation, she HAS to go too), and others are people who believe they lose out if they do not get the newest of a brand, a very common problem within Gucci and Apple, where people get into poverty just to get the newest.
    FOMO in this case is referring to the business tactic. Using artificial scarcity as a marketing ploy to increase sales. It's the deliberate action of the company to exploit that fear of missing out. To use your example of feeling compelled to go to a party with friends, it's the difference between having that feeling on your own that you must go or miss out, vs having your "friends" tell you that you must go or you will miss out not because they care about your enjoyment but simply because they want you there for theirs. The former is the personal impulse, the latter is a 3rd party action to exploit that impulse for their benefit.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    FOMO in this case is referring to the business tactic. Using artificial scarcity as a marketing ploy to increase sales. It's the deliberate action of the company to exploit that fear of missing out. To use your example of feeling compelled to go to a party with friends, it's the difference between having that feeling on your own that you must go or miss out, vs having your "friends" tell you that you must go or you will miss out not because they care about your enjoyment but simply because they want you there for theirs. The former is the personal impulse, the latter is a 3rd party action to exploit that impulse for their benefit.
    With referral to my previous post. Game companies can be at the highest seat, handle their products by bloating their content in an attempt to remove the FOMO fear from people, that is the only reason people pin the game companies to be the issue when FOMO exists outside of the digital claim with physical claims as well, which is actually a harder issue, such as people going into suicidal depression due to not being able to get a Playstation 5, or making themselves willing to pay an overprice for a PS5 just because they must have it. My example with the party is used in the term of her getting told people are going to a party, nothing more, and then expect to be invited when asking because she must go, or going without invitation - even if the person is sick.

    I mean, in the view of problems being able to be solved, sure, you could technically hold and demand every digital company to uphold the FOMO demand of a minority but there's little chance to that. And brings us back to other things, you talk of artificial scarcity, within the claim of FOMO you also have people reacting because someone has something they do not, stretching the issue further.

    I don't mind fixing the digital scarcity problem with Blizzard, they can put everything they had on the store back but in-game, the problem becomes different, for now, you have a minority vs. other groups of people, majority or other minorities.
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  16. #136
    OMG in america there is Halloween soon! I am now forced to buy a flight ticket and reserve a hotel for a week because I don't wanna miss out on trick or treating!!!! I think the flight companies and hotels have forged a malicious conspiracy against me!!!

    The whine threads in this forum were always a collection of nonsensical bullshit, but it keeps getting worse. I wonder if there is a bar where the mods will just shut these endless echo chambers for people who do not play the game for years and just want to see it burn. If no such bar exists then renaming the Website to "MMO-Archenemy" might be the next logical choice, cause there is sure nothing on this website "championing" them.

    People have been waiting for the Mage Tower for years. Begging Blizzard for it. Now it returns... and what does this community do? Cry over every little detail of it's return.

    It's just beyond foolish and it clearly shows why Blizzard is fully correct to not listen to you people.

  17. #137
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    Blizzard is out of touch with their playerbase but that has been clear for quite some time.

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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    With referral to my previous post. Game companies can be at the highest seat, handle their products by bloating their content in an attempt to remove the FOMO fear from people, that is the only reason people pin the game companies to be the issue when FOMO exists outside of the digital claim with physical claims as well, which is actually a harder issue, such as people going into suicidal depression due to not being able to get a Playstation 5, or making themselves willing to pay an overprice for a PS5 just because they must have it. My example with the party is used in the term of her getting told people are going to a party, nothing more, and then expect to be invited when asking because she must go, or going without invitation - even if the person is sick.

    I mean, in the view of problems being able to be solved, sure, you could technically hold and demand every digital company to uphold the FOMO demand of a minority but there's little chance to that. And brings us back to other things, you talk of artificial scarcity, within the claim of FOMO you also have people reacting because someone has something they do not, stretching the issue further.

    I don't mind fixing the digital scarcity problem with Blizzard, they can put everything they had on the store back but in-game, the problem becomes different, for now, you have a minority vs. other groups of people, majority or other minorities.
    The issue with the PS5 is COMPLETELY different. If it were up to Sony they'd have enough stock to sell a unit to every person who wants one. Being held back by physical production limitations is NOT the same as exploiting FOMO. Again, you're looking at it strictly from the consumer side when the point is that it's a deliberate tactic on the producer side.

    I'm also not saying that Blizzard shouldn't use these tactics. Like I said before, businesses want to make money. Rather, I'm arguing with people who either don't recognize Blizzard's active role in this marketing ploy (like yourself) or people who seem to think these tactics are actually in the consumer's best interest (like the person I originally responded to).

  19. #139
    I don't really see how anyone would fear missing out on something that is on a schedule. We know Mage Tower is coming back, again and again, presumably forever.

    Not to mention if you aren't currently subscribed that means you don't enjoy WoW, so why would you resubscribe just to do Mage Tower and then unsubscribe again? That would literally make no sense because you wouldn't even get to see the rewards you got from doing the thing you don't even have fun doing.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    How many MMOs let you do old dungeons for current rewards other then currency?
    You put “other than currency” in there to dodge the issue. A currency is a perfectly acceptable reward. Not interested in that kind of dishonesty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    This is a two way street, games also aren't targeted at you, just because you have issues to do with gaming doesn't mean companies are specifically targeting you. Not every bar and brewery is trying to create or exploit alcoholics, most just want to create a pleasant experience. For all people like to cry about "psychological manipulation" ultimately it boils down to creating something people enjoy doing - Vanilla in particular could be seen as being especially "addictive" (or "predatory" if you prefer) but I think that's more down to the devs creating a fun game than the original WoW crew enlisting psychologists to create a deliberately manipulative product.

    Holidays and Timewalking have been in the game for years, Holidays since Vanilla, and this is the first time I've seen someone compare them to casinos or say they need regulating out. While I am sorry that you have some sort of gaming disorder it seems a bit extreme taking these events away from everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -



    When you get a negative emotion from not doing something instead of a positive emotion for achieving it that is a you problem. There are tonnes of things in WoW that I'm never going to complete, from high-end raids to PvP achievements to massive collections to most seasonal/limited events. If I was inclined to feel miserable about things I can't or don't want to do rather than happy about the things I do, I would have quit WoW back in Vanilla.
    I don’t know why you keep making me repeat myself:

    The issue is not the effect on people with FOMO. The issue is that Blizzard makes the game worse for EVERYONE in order to create systems that prey on people with FOMO.

    Relentless time gating is bad for EVERYONE.
    Rapidly deprecating content is bad for EVERYONE.

    None of these things make the game better. They make it worse. It’s not about the people with FOMO. It is about the design decisions Blizzard makes to prey on those people. Can you please respond to that point and stop repeating yourself over and over gain. I get it, pointing fingers at people with negative psychological traits is very exciting and enthralling for you, but Blizzard ruins the game for ALL OF US in order to prey on those people.
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