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  1. #161
    [QUOTE=Roship;53393601]
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is definete FOMO atm with people being forced to sub now to gear their chars so they can do mage tower once it is releaed in 3-4months because onl ytiem they can do it wil lbe once every half of year.

    its disgusting predatory tactics.

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    Im fairly certain they stated in the reveal that item levels will be scaled down/up. So completion of the mage tower will be based purely on skill level.
    It's also to easily gear up still. So hus concern is really a non issue. Sure it makes it easier, but I remember the original MT, my undefeated DH had no problems, but my properly geared Paladin had trouble. It's more about skill, but yes gear can make up for some things.

  2. #162
    Oddly enough, I'm still unsubbed. No FOMO.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I find it more telling that FOMO was never an issue to most people until it became about something they care about rather than just existing. FOMO, or rather, time sensitive cosmetics and gear, has existed in the game since launch. We still have achievements and mounts as time sensitive rewards, but apparently no one cared enough to make a post on mmo-c about it until now. It comes off as more of an issue of personal greed of something that you want vs an actual problem with the system existing.

    That stated, I have no problem with time sensitive rewards. I never played vanilla, but I still think it’s awesome seeing the rare Scarab Lord or the black Qiraji mount. I don’t mind busting out my Cloudsong Glaive or my original Rhok’delar from time to time. I’m happy I got my Undying title and a little upset I never got Immortal; but, I’m not raging on forums about it or talking about how Blizzard removed them simply to create FOMO.
    That said, I think it’s nice to have things others can’t get and it does add a sense of exclusivity. The fact people can get so upset about not being able to get it proves that if you did get it you should be proud of having done it.
    Yup. I'm sure some that are against it are mad they never got their CM skins, but had no problem with timed events before or in other games or areas of life. The ones upset are the same types that bring in a flyer that's weeks old to a store demanding they get that sale price.

    So what? You missed out on something. It's not the end if the world. Just gotta keep on trucking. I mean I really wanted the CM gear and weapons. I loath timed dungeon runs. I just went oh well, not for me, and moved on. I think part of the problem is people's priorities are in the wrong place too. I've always believed this about some gamers. Getting as emotional as the do over a game as of it were a life or death situation. Like, calm your tits man, it's just a game.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Not really. Just stating the obvious. Nothing is really going to ever change. You really think you can get the billions of underprivileged and taken advantage of to rise up and stop what's going on? Hell, you can't even get enough people to boycott something to make a statement on a scale worth noticing.

    Take the current crap going on with Blizzard. A certain forum that has its head so far up its ass trying to out woke each other, constantly posting fuck ABK in any thread created about every ABK game. They are being drowned out by those who are excited about D2R. For every person being taken advantage of there are 10 right behind that don't notice or care.

    So sure call me an edge lord of you must. But for as much as thing have gotten better throughout the years, they are far worse in many other areas. It's not really going to change. It's nature. Just a more evolved nuanced form of it.
    But yet, things are changing. People have been removed. New people have been moved into those vacancies (one of which has been discussed about having diversity and equality in games and the workplace). In game references are being changed, and potentially never going to come back.
    Hopefully, this has also given others some courage to step forward when/if it happens in other companies (because it’s probably safe to say it’s not just limited to Blizzard). Change can happen with a bang all at once, or it can be so small you hardly realize anything’s changed until it has.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    But yet, things are changing. People have been removed. New people have been moved into those vacancies (one of which has been discussed about having diversity and equality in games and the workplace). In game references are being changed, and potentially never going to come back.
    Hopefully, this has also given others some courage to step forward when/if it happens in other companies (because it’s probably safe to say it’s not just limited to Blizzard). Change can happen with a bang all at once, or it can be so small you hardly realize anything’s changed until it has.
    And a new way to take advantage will prop up. Not to mention this type of behavior is prominent within the entire industry. You'll have a hard time finding a game dev where a woman hasn't been sexually assaulted, or had her gender used against her in some way to have ideas stolen or not be promoted.

    But yes trying to clean up Blizzards ranks of abusers is a good thing, but overall it's a drop in an ocean of problems in the world.

  6. #166
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    And a new way to take advantage will prop up. Not to mention this type of behavior is prominent within the entire industry. You'll have a hard time finding a game dev where a woman hasn't been sexually assaulted, or had her gender used against her in some way to have ideas stolen or not be promoted.

    But yes trying to clean up Blizzards ranks of abusers is a good thing, but overall it's a drop in an ocean of problems in the world.
    True, but it’s still a good thing that change is happening. A small ripple can spread across the surface. Like I said, hopefully it will inspire others to step forward where abuse is happening elsewhere.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.
    None of this is true, which you would know if you would play the game instead of allowing Bellular and his servants to tell you what you should think.

    None of the dailies have any influence on your power level, you can easily gear up by just doing M+ or Raid. You can spam them for the end of dungeon reward and once you are not getting upgrades there anymore you get them from the Vault. There is some gear in Korthia but it's low and can only be upgraded to a certain point. Trying to gear there is a waste of time unless your character is extremely undergeared.

    The only thing you need to do a bit of work for is Soul Cinders in Torghast, which is maybe 5 weeks of 1-2 hours each, then you can be done if you so choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.
    I don't believe you have played the expansion, if you and your friends really think this. It's simple horseshit. Neither Rep, Anima, Archivist stuff or anything else in the open world increase your power. Or at least the increase is very limited and very easily overtaken by doing dungeons and raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model.
    Hmm. Most players are skilled enough to read and understand how the game systems works though. I am not sure you are.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    True, but it’s still a good thing that change is happening. A small ripple can spread across the surface. Like I said, hopefully it will inspire others to step forward where abuse is happening elsewhere.
    Yeah, no. I'm not saying change isn't good. It is and it's way past due. It's still sad that a world where 52% or more are female they are still seriously underrepresented in positions of power. Frankly, the more diversity from the top down the better things could be. I just don't see that happening in my lifetime.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    I understand all of that. I just don't give a shit about it. I consume what I want when I want. Thus goes for all industries. If they don't have what I want at the time I want to consume I find something different or leave. I just don't spend any time worrying about this since it's everywhere, has been since the dawn of man, hell the dawn of life. The weak have always been preyed upon.
    Yeah, I believe that you don't give a shit about things. But your belief that regulation cannot raise industry standards is utterly ridiculous.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.
    I just raid log and some stuff for legendaries for a couple hours on the weekend. Less than 3% raid mythic where that shit may be necessary.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I think you understand what I was saying and as you can only attack me by saying it's deranged, laughable and absurd shows there is no point talking with you any more. Just try to remember that different people like different things and just because you're playing a game that makes you miserable doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
    Translation: "I don't have a counterpoint, so I'm going to declare victory and run away"

    You know just as well as I do that the idea that "play the patch" makes your accomplishments in previous patches more valuable is silly. It has the opposite effect. It makes your accomplishments in the patch feel transient and unimportant. You are just too arrogant to admit it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Worse is subjective. But if you have such an issue with what they are doing why bother supporting them with monthly payments?
    If you want to appeal to subjectivity and say "Some people like less content and some people like that content fades from relevance so quickly", that's cool but it is like responding to a story about shit in someone's food with "It's only an opinion that feces tastes bad". That may be technically true, but it's clearly an attempt to deflect from the substance of the issue.

    I don't pay for it anymore so.... thanks for the advice?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.
    Kind of a side note, but the equivalent of LFR isn't bad in certain other games that shall not be named. LFR is bad in WoW because it is designed poorly and has problems caused by other aspects of the design. Blizzard designs raids top-down. They start with Mythic and then simplify from there. The result is that LFR ends up being a poor approximation of what the original design intended. When you design LFR-style content for LFR directly, you can make much better design decisions. This is part of the problem with Blizzard's general obsession with scaling content.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You put “other than currency” in there to dodge the issue. A currency is a perfectly acceptable reward. Not interested in that kind of dishonesty.
    What issue considering timewalking awards gear and currency?

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    What issue considering timewalking awards gear and currency?
    It awards gear that is useful for a stage of progression that lasts about one day in the current endgame model. It gives some currency to buy some cosmetics, so it isn't exactly a robust system that is a real part of the endgame.

    I don't know why so many of you guys need to act so incredibly dense to defend this stuff. If the design is good, just argue for why it is good, but pretending that WoW's model is comparable to games where every dungeon in the entire game from every expansion stays permanently relevant to endgame at all times is really silly.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #175
    Did OP just learn the word FOMO or something? That's cute...

    Anyways, every company uses hype ("fomo") in some form as a marketing tactic. Look at Apples recent unveil of their new phones. They didn't have to do a large presentation but they did because it garners hype aka exposure. I am not sure why this even needed a thread.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavir View Post
    Did OP just learn the word FOMO or something? That's cute...

    Anyways, every company uses hype ("fomo") in some form as a marketing tactic. Look at Apples recent unveil of their new phones. They didn't have to do a large presentation but they did because it garners hype aka exposure. I am not sure why this even needed a thread.
    Thats not what fomo means. Fomo is about missing out on something that is specifically time limited in some way.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    Yeah, I believe that you don't give a shit about things. But your belief that regulation cannot raise industry standards is utterly ridiculous.
    Where did I state that. Of course regulation works. But what happens, it takes decades to implement while the biggest companies can choose just to ignore it since most regulations don't have proper enforcement in place due to the government enforcement sector hasn't really grown to keep up.

    But go on a d tell me how all those anti pollution and dumping regulations have really stopped corporations from dumping into fresh water and polluting the air. It still happens at an alarming rate within the larger corporations, the small businesses follow suit since one fine can ruin them and thise large corporations keep getting larger as they acquire all the smaller ones up.

    Not suggesting in the least that regulations don't work, they do to some degree. They are not the end all be all as suggested.

  18. #178
    Difficult group content, on the other hand, inspires FOMU: Fear Of Messing Up. I think this is why many players shy away from that kind of content.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Translation: "I don't have a counterpoint, so I'm going to declare victory and run away"

    You know just as well as I do that the idea that "play the patch" makes your accomplishments in previous patches more valuable is silly. It has the opposite effect. It makes your accomplishments in the patch feel transient and unimportant. You are just too arrogant to admit it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you want to appeal to subjectivity and say "Some people like less content and some people like that content fades from relevance so quickly", that's cool but it is like responding to a story about shit in someone's food with "It's only an opinion that feces tastes bad". That may be technically true, but it's clearly an attempt to deflect from the substance of the issue.

    I don't pay for it anymore so.... thanks for the advice?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Kind of a side note, but the equivalent of LFR isn't bad in certain other games that shall not be named. LFR is bad in WoW because it is designed poorly and has problems caused by other aspects of the design. Blizzard designs raids top-down. They start with Mythic and then simplify from there. The result is that LFR ends up being a poor approximation of what the original design intended. When you design LFR-style content for LFR directly, you can make much better design decisions. This is part of the problem with Blizzard's general obsession with scaling content.
    If don't pay but use the token you are supporting a premium sub model since someone else is paying $20 a month for your token you buy with gold. That's actually worse than paying $13-15/month while complaining about their business practices. You are in the same vien as me, since it doesn't effect you(your pocketbook, it doesn't really matter).

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is definete FOMO atm with people being forced to sub now to gear their chars so they can do mage tower once it is releaed in 3-4months because onl ytiem they can do it wil lbe once every half of year.

    its disgusting predatory tactics.

    - - - Updated - - -



    there is nothign that suggest this to be true

    for al lwe know it may be 1 time thing that wont return for years and once again without original or sl version of transmogs .
    You must be playing Reed Richards in the new Fantastic 4 Movie cause this is one HELL of a stretch
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