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  1. #161
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    And a new way to take advantage will prop up. Not to mention this type of behavior is prominent within the entire industry. You'll have a hard time finding a game dev where a woman hasn't been sexually assaulted, or had her gender used against her in some way to have ideas stolen or not be promoted.

    But yes trying to clean up Blizzards ranks of abusers is a good thing, but overall it's a drop in an ocean of problems in the world.
    True, but it’s still a good thing that change is happening. A small ripple can spread across the surface. Like I said, hopefully it will inspire others to step forward where abuse is happening elsewhere.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.
    None of this is true, which you would know if you would play the game instead of allowing Bellular and his servants to tell you what you should think.

    None of the dailies have any influence on your power level, you can easily gear up by just doing M+ or Raid. You can spam them for the end of dungeon reward and once you are not getting upgrades there anymore you get them from the Vault. There is some gear in Korthia but it's low and can only be upgraded to a certain point. Trying to gear there is a waste of time unless your character is extremely undergeared.

    The only thing you need to do a bit of work for is Soul Cinders in Torghast, which is maybe 5 weeks of 1-2 hours each, then you can be done if you so choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.
    I don't believe you have played the expansion, if you and your friends really think this. It's simple horseshit. Neither Rep, Anima, Archivist stuff or anything else in the open world increase your power. Or at least the increase is very limited and very easily overtaken by doing dungeons and raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model.
    Hmm. Most players are skilled enough to read and understand how the game systems works though. I am not sure you are.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    True, but it’s still a good thing that change is happening. A small ripple can spread across the surface. Like I said, hopefully it will inspire others to step forward where abuse is happening elsewhere.
    Yeah, no. I'm not saying change isn't good. It is and it's way past due. It's still sad that a world where 52% or more are female they are still seriously underrepresented in positions of power. Frankly, the more diversity from the top down the better things could be. I just don't see that happening in my lifetime.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.
    I just raid log and some stuff for legendaries for a couple hours on the weekend. Less than 3% raid mythic where that shit may be necessary.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I think you understand what I was saying and as you can only attack me by saying it's deranged, laughable and absurd shows there is no point talking with you any more. Just try to remember that different people like different things and just because you're playing a game that makes you miserable doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
    Translation: "I don't have a counterpoint, so I'm going to declare victory and run away"

    You know just as well as I do that the idea that "play the patch" makes your accomplishments in previous patches more valuable is silly. It has the opposite effect. It makes your accomplishments in the patch feel transient and unimportant. You are just too arrogant to admit it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Worse is subjective. But if you have such an issue with what they are doing why bother supporting them with monthly payments?
    If you want to appeal to subjectivity and say "Some people like less content and some people like that content fades from relevance so quickly", that's cool but it is like responding to a story about shit in someone's food with "It's only an opinion that feces tastes bad". That may be technically true, but it's clearly an attempt to deflect from the substance of the issue.

    I don't pay for it anymore so.... thanks for the advice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand the OPs point.

    FOMO being, if you want to raid, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to do M+, you need to farm daily.
    If you want to PvP, you need to farm daily.

    If you don't log in, and do the daily " Wow chores", as my friends and I call them. You get left behind in terms of power. Which I think is a REALLY bad design.

    Reward me for being skilled, don't reward me because I spend more time logged into the game. But I understand the problem with that in WOW, is that most players aren't skilled enough for that type of game model. We know this because of LFR being a thing. And 90% of all keys ran in M+, are under 9. Then it becomes, oh wow is catering to the smallest margin of players, raiders and high end M+ pushers. So they make these FOMO systems. There is no way to win.
    Kind of a side note, but the equivalent of LFR isn't bad in certain other games that shall not be named. LFR is bad in WoW because it is designed poorly and has problems caused by other aspects of the design. Blizzard designs raids top-down. They start with Mythic and then simplify from there. The result is that LFR ends up being a poor approximation of what the original design intended. When you design LFR-style content for LFR directly, you can make much better design decisions. This is part of the problem with Blizzard's general obsession with scaling content.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You put “other than currency” in there to dodge the issue. A currency is a perfectly acceptable reward. Not interested in that kind of dishonesty.
    What issue considering timewalking awards gear and currency?

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    What issue considering timewalking awards gear and currency?
    It awards gear that is useful for a stage of progression that lasts about one day in the current endgame model. It gives some currency to buy some cosmetics, so it isn't exactly a robust system that is a real part of the endgame.

    I don't know why so many of you guys need to act so incredibly dense to defend this stuff. If the design is good, just argue for why it is good, but pretending that WoW's model is comparable to games where every dungeon in the entire game from every expansion stays permanently relevant to endgame at all times is really silly.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #169
    Did OP just learn the word FOMO or something? That's cute...

    Anyways, every company uses hype ("fomo") in some form as a marketing tactic. Look at Apples recent unveil of their new phones. They didn't have to do a large presentation but they did because it garners hype aka exposure. I am not sure why this even needed a thread.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavir View Post
    Did OP just learn the word FOMO or something? That's cute...

    Anyways, every company uses hype ("fomo") in some form as a marketing tactic. Look at Apples recent unveil of their new phones. They didn't have to do a large presentation but they did because it garners hype aka exposure. I am not sure why this even needed a thread.
    Thats not what fomo means. Fomo is about missing out on something that is specifically time limited in some way.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    Yeah, I believe that you don't give a shit about things. But your belief that regulation cannot raise industry standards is utterly ridiculous.
    Where did I state that. Of course regulation works. But what happens, it takes decades to implement while the biggest companies can choose just to ignore it since most regulations don't have proper enforcement in place due to the government enforcement sector hasn't really grown to keep up.

    But go on a d tell me how all those anti pollution and dumping regulations have really stopped corporations from dumping into fresh water and polluting the air. It still happens at an alarming rate within the larger corporations, the small businesses follow suit since one fine can ruin them and thise large corporations keep getting larger as they acquire all the smaller ones up.

    Not suggesting in the least that regulations don't work, they do to some degree. They are not the end all be all as suggested.

  12. #172
    Difficult group content, on the other hand, inspires FOMU: Fear Of Messing Up. I think this is why many players shy away from that kind of content.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Translation: "I don't have a counterpoint, so I'm going to declare victory and run away"

    You know just as well as I do that the idea that "play the patch" makes your accomplishments in previous patches more valuable is silly. It has the opposite effect. It makes your accomplishments in the patch feel transient and unimportant. You are just too arrogant to admit it.

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    If you want to appeal to subjectivity and say "Some people like less content and some people like that content fades from relevance so quickly", that's cool but it is like responding to a story about shit in someone's food with "It's only an opinion that feces tastes bad". That may be technically true, but it's clearly an attempt to deflect from the substance of the issue.

    I don't pay for it anymore so.... thanks for the advice?

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    Kind of a side note, but the equivalent of LFR isn't bad in certain other games that shall not be named. LFR is bad in WoW because it is designed poorly and has problems caused by other aspects of the design. Blizzard designs raids top-down. They start with Mythic and then simplify from there. The result is that LFR ends up being a poor approximation of what the original design intended. When you design LFR-style content for LFR directly, you can make much better design decisions. This is part of the problem with Blizzard's general obsession with scaling content.
    If don't pay but use the token you are supporting a premium sub model since someone else is paying $20 a month for your token you buy with gold. That's actually worse than paying $13-15/month while complaining about their business practices. You are in the same vien as me, since it doesn't effect you(your pocketbook, it doesn't really matter).

  14. #174
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    there is definete FOMO atm with people being forced to sub now to gear their chars so they can do mage tower once it is releaed in 3-4months because onl ytiem they can do it wil lbe once every half of year.

    its disgusting predatory tactics.

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    there is nothign that suggest this to be true

    for al lwe know it may be 1 time thing that wont return for years and once again without original or sl version of transmogs .
    You must be playing Reed Richards in the new Fantastic 4 Movie cause this is one HELL of a stretch
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  15. #175
    I'd say yes, it seems they've been going that way, especially this year where we're getting literally 1 patch for an entire year+. Before anyone jumps down my throat, yes we might get a 9.1.5 patch, but that's not a major content patch minor things at best.

    As for the FOMO, it does seem that way. Bringing back something temporary like the Mage Tower as well as the 6mo lock in subs full of goodies just screams "We're not longer about actual content, we're just about tokens that will keep you paying as long as possible."

    That's on us though as the players. If we don't like it, we need to quit and not just "I'm unsubbing for a few weeks" but for good. There ARE other good options out there now. We no longer need to play WoW to get those same feelings of satisfaction from this game. The only thing they've got left is the nostalgia factor which keeps people coming back because "I've already sunk so much time in this game" or "I grew up playing this game" Once we can get over that, we can look at it objectively and ask ourselves, "Is this a good game I would keep playing if I just started today?"

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    None of this is true, which you would know if you would play the game instead of allowing Bellular and his servants to tell you what you should think.

    None of the dailies have any influence on your power level, you can easily gear up by just doing M+ or Raid. You can spam them for the end of dungeon reward and once you are not getting upgrades there anymore you get them from the Vault. There is some gear in Korthia but it's low and can only be upgraded to a certain point. Trying to gear there is a waste of time unless your character is extremely undergeared.

    The only thing you need to do a bit of work for is Soul Cinders in Torghast, which is maybe 5 weeks of 1-2 hours each, then you can be done if you so choose.



    I don't believe you have played the expansion, if you and your friends really think this. It's simple horseshit. Neither Rep, Anima, Archivist stuff or anything else in the open world increase your power. Or at least the increase is very limited and very easily overtaken by doing dungeons and raids.



    Hmm. Most players are skilled enough to read and understand how the game systems works though. I am not sure you are.
    Ummm. What?

    I play the game, often, and it is 100% true. You literally state near the end of your stupid-ass statement, that part of the dailies or wow chores give player power, confirming what I stated. So are you being dumb on purpose to troll and be argumentative, or just stupid naturally?

    Korthia directly affects player power. Just like the Maw did prior to 9.1.

    Being able to buy 252 conduits with a currency earned there. Player power.
    Weekly Quest for Stygian Embers. Which requires you to do dailies. Player Power. Without them, you cannot upgrade your shards for raids.
    Korthia Gear, 200 base, up to 233. Player power.
    Torghast has to be done weekly, or if you're starting over, a few layers a day. Soul Ash and Cinders. Player Power.
    Tormenters that spawn in the Maw, give several currencies, can be done once a week. Player Power.
    Assaults in the Maw, twice a week. Player Power.
    World Quests, Daily gear drops. Player Power.


    You get the idea. So yes, absolutely, dailies are required to increase player power. Whether you're a hardcore raider or the person who logs in casually every other day. Dailies can and will increase your player power. And will do so faster, than not doing them. To say they don't is not only incorrect factually, but it's also just fucking stupid.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Thats not what fomo means. Fomo is about missing out on something that is specifically time limited in some way.
    Nah, FoMO can kick in even with things that aren't specifically limited. It's how hype works around big releases like phones, games, movies etc. Even though the thing will be around for a long time the anxiety is about the fact people are enjoying the thing right now so people don't want to wait.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Thats not what fomo means. Fomo is about missing out on something that is specifically time limited in some way.
    Huh? FOMO (fear of missing out) is when word of mouth is spreading so quick (through hype) that you feel that you were the only one to miss out. It's an investor term for when you feel something visceral in your body out of sheer greed. Usually is a bad thing because if you're investing with emotions then you're doing it wrong.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kjartan...-hype-as-a-vc/

    "Hype = FOMO

    A rise in FOMO also stems from the trend for startups to create as much ‘hype’ as possible, as a way to boost their value and speed up investment rounds."

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    If don't pay but use the token you are supporting a premium sub model since someone else is paying $20 a month for your token you buy with gold. That's actually worse than paying $13-15/month while complaining about their business practices. You are in the same vien as me, since it doesn't effect you(your pocketbook, it doesn't really matter).
    Cool. I do neither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Nah, FoMO can kick in even with things that aren't specifically limited. It's how hype works around big releases like phones, games, movies etc. Even though the thing will be around for a long time the anxiety is about the fact people are enjoying the thing right now so people don't want to wait.
    When it comes to games and movies, the FOMO is not that you are missing the game or movie. The FOMO is that you are missing out on being a part of social interactions with other people related to those things, because the excitement around them in the culture is going to be temporary, as in it is going to be TIME LIMITED. People don't want to be left out of broader cultural conversations that fade and move on to the next thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavir View Post
    Huh? FOMO (fear of missing out) is when word of mouth is spreading so quick (through hype) that you feel that you were the only one to miss out. It's an investor term for when you feel something visceral in your body out of sheer greed. Usually is a bad thing because if you're investing with emotions then you're doing it wrong.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kjartan...-hype-as-a-vc/

    "Hype = FOMO

    A rise in FOMO also stems from the trend for startups to create as much ‘hype’ as possible, as a way to boost their value and speed up investment rounds."
    You proved my point. Startups generate hype around investment rounds because investment rounds are TIME LIMITED, exactly as I stated. The whole point of the hype around investments is that you are going to miss the opportunity to make money.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #180
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    they never tried to remove FOMO, they proposed to add back those pvp sets, one type of reward out of countless lol
    this isn't even something very mainstream due to the rating, something mainstream would be things like the shadowlands pre launch event, things they remove at the end of an expansion just because, and so on
    making rewards that were once fomo, no longer fomo, is literally removing fomo, especially since they have removed tons of fomo before, originally raid meta acheives were fomo, yet here we are.

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