M+ needs back Titanforging

[kamuimac]

Valor is completely pointless with a cap. It's one of the worst features they have ever put in the game.

One of the best things about Legion/BFA was that you could really play a ton some weeks and knew that there was always a chance that someone could get an upgrade, especially when you got to the stage where most players had two pieces of loot per instance. The salt when that player was you... glorious!

It's also boring because the actual instance quality is so much lower than Legion/BFA.
Even the most disliked Legion instances (Cathedral/Seat) were more fun than the SL instances.

I hope they do better next expansion.

thats the biggest problem of wow atm

its incedibly booooooooooring

nobody wants to play boring games

TF maybe pissed of mythci crybabies but it was rewarding and fun .

now everythign you do feels pointless

so people play FF 14 instead wow - because there they can progress their chars instead being bored.

ESO capitulated too and is changing their gearing model.

i have strong suspition that 10.0 will change nothing - people wont even come back for launch and only then we will see "heads rolling" in bizzard hq.

[Qck]

Definitenly helped with replayability, you could play one character and always feel like you were progressing something. As it is now, it's basically a set of daily and weekly check lists.. and then you have to play an alt or "push" keys for no tangible reward.

I miss being able to play the one character and just FARM to make it as strong as I possibly could... and tbh I stopped playing for that reason. I don't want to play alts, but I don't want to play just for the sake of playing, and I certainly don't want every form of real character power to be gated by a weekly chest/currency or raid lockout. I'd play Classic if I did.

[Argorwal]

thats the biggest problem of wow atm

its incedibly booooooooooring

nobody wants to play boring games

TF maybe pissed of mythci crybabies but it was rewarding and fun .

now everythign you do feels pointless

so people play FF 14 instead wow - because there they can progress their chars instead being bored.

ESO capitulated too and is changing their gearing model.

i have strong suspition that 10.0 will change nothing - people wont even come back for launch and only then we will see "heads rolling" in bizzard hq.

FF gearing is literally the polar opposite of titanforging and yet people go there because TF is gone?

[Depakote]

M+ needs to go away.

[Kaver]

thats the biggest problem of wow atm

its incedibly booooooooooring

nobody wants to play boring games

TF maybe pissed of mythci crybabies but it was rewarding and fun .

now everythign you do feels pointless

so people play FF 14 instead wow - because there they can progress their chars instead being bored.

ESO capitulated too and is changing their gearing model.

i have strong suspition that 10.0 will change nothing - people wont even come back for launch and only then we will see "heads rolling" in bizzard hq.

FF14 doesn’t have a system similar to Titanforging.

Again, we need a better reward system in WoW. But having a system based on extreme RNG is not the answer.

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FF gearing is literally the polar opposite of titanforging and yet people go there because TF is gone?

I find it interesting that so many people have convinced themselves that TF is the ONLY solution to solve WoWs reward issues. Especially considering that TF hasn’t been in the game for most of WoWs lifetime.

We players simply need to feel rewarded for the content we do. Something that FF14 seem to do pretty well. And extreme RNG aka Titanforging is clearly not necessary to make a rewarding loot system.

[Xalvia]

why can't it just be warforging

[Soikona]

It was only a matter of time when the "let loot be loot" philosophy that players cried and whined about -- which directly came from the Titanforging concept -- which made Blizzard cave in to would take its toll on a majority of players... that they back up and cry and whine for Titanforging back.





When all loot is a rare commodity, any piece you get matters. Unless... it doesn't. Then you're doubly fucked. Also, that is one way to describe the problem. "Boring" ... I think that's a first for me reading.

Or, and this could be mind blowing to you…. Not everyone shares the same opinion. As a species, we are not a hivemind. Mind blown right? I love the new loot system, could do with higher drop chance but I am happy to see loot drop, not disappointed because it didn’t WF/TF so now I have to do it again.

- - - Updated - - -

thats the biggest problem of wow atm

its incedibly booooooooooring

nobody wants to play boring games

TF maybe pissed of mythci crybabies but it was rewarding and fun .

now everythign you do feels pointless

so people play FF 14 instead wow - because there they can progress their chars instead being bored.

ESO capitulated too and is changing their gearing model.

i have strong suspition that 10.0 will change nothing - people wont even come back for launch and only then we will see "heads rolling" in bizzard hq.

FF doesn’t have a TF system. It just has loot actually dropping so people feel rewarded. RNG systems do not reward hard work, just the lucky.

[XDurionX]

Short reply: No.

Longer reply: TF was stupid that any content could proc enough that you could win the lotto of a max TF item from doing the lowest difficult of content. It's degenerative because it gave players the perception that they needed to do EVERY LEVEL OF CONTENT on the small off chance that it could TF up to the max.

Did we not learn from Arcano Crystal back in Legion?

Hell we already see it in SL with Instructor's Divine Bell for certain specs. Could you imagine how much MORE players would grind if that could TF beyond the current cap?

Yeah, this is bullshit. Of course sometimes you get lucky and get an item way beyond your pay grade. But LFR players NEVER consistently had better gear then normal players etc. This is not how stochastics work. The ones doing harder content ALWAYS had better gear. Period.

[Deneios]

Wow need a deterministic Loot system to compensate the RNG system. That system was the JP/VP vendors.
What we dont need is another layer of RNG to the current clusterfuck. We need goals for what to aim to that are achievable.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Sadly i don't think we'll go back. I do think having a bis list and everyone of the same spec following it it is kinda dumb. Now the same people who complained about titanforging (which contributed to a very small amount of your overall item level) are complaining cause their bis trinket is taking them 10 runs of dungeon X to get.

I think having inifinitely grindable gear with no clear end point with very high diminishing value was actually pretty neat. Never quite understood the attraction of bis lists and finishing it being the goal. Surely the goal is to clear the content, which you can do far before reaching optimal gear? Knowing you have a chance (however miniscule) of getting gear on a run affected the mentality of running dungeons quite a bit.

Reduced rates of raid loot has had much higher impact on the variance of player power during progression than titanforging did. There are trinkets and weapons our guild still hasn't seen drop on mythic. Especially with trinkets the item level was very rarely the deciding factor, it's all about a function.

[Alroxas]

The ones doing harder content ALWAYS had better gear. Period.

That's not the issue. The issue is that by having Titanforging (up to the highest ilv the game allows) means that you are depriving yourself of the potential for upgrades if you don't also run "easier" content on the off-chance that it may upgrade and upgrade to the max.

If you put in systems where players could "gamble" to gain player power, you can bet 100% that some portion of the playerbase will do it. How many players now in SL do a +15 once a week for the off-chance that the GV will give a good ilv 252 gear that isn't already occupied by a Domination slot or legendary slot?

[Wries]

Titanforging in BFA wasn't much fun because they had nerfed the proc rate so low that you really couldn't count on ever getting something useful titanforged.

As for someone who just wants to proc leech/avoidance on loot, even those have abysmal proc rates.

I'd like Legion titanforging back. For the record I was never one of those thinking TF was bad to begin with. I quite liked finishing a m+ run hoping for something fun in the chest. Now it's almost not worth the right click.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Or, and this could be mind blowing to you…. Not everyone shares the same opinion. As a species, we are not a hivemind. Mind blown right? I love the new loot system, could do with higher drop chance but I am happy to see loot drop, not disappointed because it didn’t WF/TF so now I have to do it again

Ok? Thanks for going out of your way to acknowledge you don't fit into that category.


And it still doesn't change anything I said.

[MrLachyG]

Just back titanforging? Or the rest of the armor slots as well?

[Lathspell]

I'd rather they remove the Valor cap and make gear upgradable to 259 or whatever the max ilvl is (both raid and m+) with that, also they could allow buying low ilvl pieces for Valor to protect you from bad RNG. This way it would always make sense to run more m+ and raid (valor could drop from raid too) because reaching full 259 would be a long journey. The amount of Valor gained would scale with Raid difficulty and key level. Yeah would eventually be able to get 259 from LFR/Low m+ but it would take much much longer than doing mythic/high m+

[Eazy]

Fuck titanforging and warforging. One of the worst systems that were implemented in this game. I am happy that they're gone. Total fake carrot on a stick garbage.

I'd rather they remove the Valor cap and make gear upgradable to 259 or whatever the max ilvl is (both raid and m+) with that, also they could allow buying low ilvl pieces for Valor to protect you from bad RNG. This way it would always make sense to run more m+ and raid (valor could drop from raid too) because reaching full 259 would be a long journey. The amount of Valor gained would scale with Raid difficulty and key level. Yeah would eventually be able to get 259 from LFR/Low m+ but it would take much much longer than doing mythic/high m+

No.

Effort should equal to reward. People who cannot do mythic or M+15 and higher shouldn't get 252ilvl gear no matter what.

Inb4 "why you care what gear have casuals?" - because it affects almost everything. An average ilvl of the content that you'll be able to join in LFG, the grindings etc. with all of the others consequences.
"Casuals"(aka LFR/low M+) don't have to do their world-quests or LFR bosses faster. What's the point? Excitement? Progression? If that's so - then they should actually put some effort to get the higher and better. It's not a casino welfare.

Yeah, this is bullshit. Of course sometimes you get lucky and get an item way beyond your pay grade. But LFR players NEVER consistently had better gear then normal players etc. This is not how stochastics work. The ones doing harder content ALWAYS had better gear. Period.

Exactly.

[Lathspell]

Fuck titanforging and warforging. One of the worst systems that were implemented in this game. I am happy that they're gone. Total fake carrot on a stick garbage.



No.

Effort should equal to reward. People who cannot do mythic or M+15 and higher shouldn't get 252ilvl gear no matter what.

Inb4 "why you care what gear have casuals?" - because it affects almost everything. An average ilvl of the content that you'll be able to join in LFG, the grindings etc. with all of the others consequences.
"Casuals"(aka LFR/low M+) don't have to do their world-quests or LFR bosses faster. What's the point? Excitement? Progression? If that's so - then they should actually put some effort to get the higher and better. It's not a casino welfare.



Exactly.

The point is to have a reason to keep playing even at the LFR/+2 level. Right now it's completely pointless and lacking any sort of progress route. If someone has 259 6 months from now grinding every day in a low difficulty setting and you have it right now why would you care?

[Eazy]

The point is to have a reason to keep playing even at the LFR/+2 level. Right now it's completely pointless and lacking any sort of progress route. If someone has 259 6 months from now grinding every day in a low difficulty setting and you have it right now why would you care?

If someone want to keep playing then he should try harder content instead of LFR/low M+. It's that simple.

I'd care because I am not putting effort in learning my own class, reading bosses guide, cooperating with other people/guild to have the same reward as someone who's just mindlessy grinding LFR.
That would be highly unfair.

[Lathspell]

I do 15-17 M+ every week now, but I wouldn't care. I would keep doing that even if I could get the same reward 90% slower grinding easy content, because I would get it faster doing harder stuff. The difference is that the guy who can't/doesn't like doing +15 and up would still have some reason to play and Blizzard would still get their sub money etc.

[Eazy]

I do 15-17 M+ every week now, but I wouldn't care. I would keep doing that even if I could get the same reward 90% slower grinding easy content, because I would get it faster doing harder stuff. The difference is that the guy who can't/doesn't like doing +15 and up would still have some reason to play and Blizzard would still get their sub money etc.

Blizzard is already offering people a way to actually get better reward - it's just doing harder content.

And there's already a similar way to gear up with grinding - it's Korthia. It's not the highest, but it's almost HC ilvl(233), which is more than fine for doing such a boring, repeatable thing. LFR/low M+ don't deserve mythic/+15 ilvl gear.

It should be: Effort = reward.

I remember when someone wrote on official forum something like:
-You earn money go to McDonalds and buy 6 Chicken Nuggets,
-Some other guy also buys 6 Chicken Nuggets, but it's McTitanForge and he gets bonus nuggets and fries,
Suddenly you're not feeling that your efforts have not been sufficiently rewarded