M+ needs back Titanforging

[enigma77]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.

[kamuimac]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.

plenty of upgrades at this point though with vp cap being at 8500

[froschhure]

i agree, tf, wf, bonusloot and more loot in general <3

[Kalocy Jim]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.

No thanks.

Quite frankly, they should never reintroduce this or bonus rolls or any sort of rng warforge/titanforge on quest / world quest items ever again.

It was toxic to the game.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Glad to see other players realize this.
M+ was created with Titanforging and AP in mind.
Such that you could leave the value of the loot quite low naturally, but allow you to benefit from its spammable nature to get potential value from it long term or with luck.
Now, that doesn't exist at all.

Big issue if you ask me, and impossible to believe no one realized this when making these decisions.

This is the problem with listening to the community in a nutshell.
They demanded titanforging be removed, and did not understand that in so doing, it completely destroyed one of the major pathway's gearing model.

The valor system was a decent solution at least, but was implemented poorly IMO.

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No thanks.

Quite frankly, they should never reintroduce this or bonus rolls or any sort of rng warforge/titanforge on quest / world quest items ever again.

It was toxic to the game.

No it wasn't. It was "toxic" to players who are unaware how luck works.

With titanforging, you still have normal item level loot too. Just like we have now, but occasionally, you may get loot that is even better.

Its is a pure win for the individual, but people made up stories about how "bad it felt" to get a standard item instead of a titanforged item, and Blizzard actually listened to that nonsense.

I hope people are happy, because now you will only ever get a normal item.
And that actually feels bad, because M+ now has extremely diminished replayability outside of the vault.

The only thing you can make an argument for is that the inflated item level potential made content easier than Blizzard could expect, but that does not appear to be matching up to the reality we have seen in the first two tiers of Shadowlands.

[Niwes]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.

may i ask from what point you look at that ?

do we talk about „you are max m+ equipped, with every item 12/12, and you can solely get upgrades by the vault“ ?

or whats exactly the ground situation you base this on ?


edit: i just asked this myself, cause i did weekly more than 5 15+ in time since 9.1 released. i have 4-5 252 items. but i just reach the point, where everything else is 12/12 with next weeks reset. so i asked myself „how can he be bored, waiting for vault, when not reached the max yet“ ? but its possible you was faster, cause as rogue i have 2 wpns to upgrade with VP and i wasted some VP (upgrading item before getting the highest possible base item). but nontheless i am curious about your state and the reason why you can get out nothing besides vault out of m+.

[Kalocy Jim]

Glad to see other players realize this.
M+ was created with Titanforging and AP in mind.
Such that you could leave the value of the loot quite low naturally, but allow you to benefit from its spammable nature to get potential value from it long term or with luck.
Now, that doesn't exist at all.

Big issue if you ask me, and impossible to believe no one realized this when making these decisions.

This is the problem with listening to the community in a nutshell.
They demanded titanforging be removed, and did not understand that in so doing, it completely destroyed one of the major pathway's gearing model.

The valor system was a decent solution at least, but was implemented poorly IMO.

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No it wasn't. It was "toxic" to players who are unaware how luck works.

With titanforging, you still have normal item level loot too. Just like we have now, but occasionally, you may get loot that is even better.

Its is a pure win for the individual, but people made up stories about how "bad it felt" to get a standard item instead of a titanforged item, and Blizzard actually listened to that nonsense.

I hope people are happy, because now you will only ever get a normal item.
And that actually feels bad, because M+ now has extremely diminished replayability outside of the vault.

The only thing you can make an argument for is that the inflated item level potential made content easier than Blizzard could expect, but that does not appear to be matching up to the reality we have seen in the first two tiers of Shadowlands.

I'm not going to go in circles with you. There was a reason why it was removed from the game, and thats because the negatives far outweight the positives of the system. End of story.

[Atreyes]

The game is much better without, it leaves gearing on a more level playing field instead of just having people who are insanely lucky or have limitless time get far ahead.

[Niwes]

Glad to see other players realize this.
M+ was created with Titanforging and AP in mind.
Such that you could leave the value of the loot quite low naturally, but allow you to benefit from its spammable nature to get potential value from it long term or with luck.
Now, that doesn't exist at all.

Big issue if you ask me, and impossible to believe no one realized this when making these decisions.

This is the problem with listening to the community in a nutshell.
They demanded titanforging be removed, and did not understand that in so doing, it completely destroyed one of the major pathway's gearing model.

The valor system was a decent solution at least, but was implemented poorly IMO.

- - - Updated - - -



No it wasn't. It was "toxic" to players who are unaware how luck works.

With titanforging, you still have normal item level loot too. Just like we have now, but occasionally, you may get loot that is even better.

Its is a pure win for the individual, but people made up stories about how "bad it felt" to get a standard item instead of a titanforged item, and Blizzard actually listened to that nonsense.

I hope people are happy, because now you will only ever get a normal item.
And that actually feels bad, because M+ now has extremely diminished replayability outside of the vault.

The only thing you can make an argument for is that the inflated item level potential made content easier than Blizzard could expect, but that does not appear to be matching up to the reality we have seen in the first two tiers of Shadowlands.

you really wanna tell (semi) professional raiders they shall additionally go endless m+ until they get the lucky procs ? didnt we had this in Legion before the big shitstorm and burnout of the raiding scene?

i would agree, if every week you choose a path and you could do m+ runs OR raids. but having both accessible, this would be total overkill.

i mean, m+ is already the better progression route and EVERY competitive profesional raider do m+ runs too. but your suggestion would bring back every downsize why blizz changed this in the first place.

so ????

[RoKPaNda]

Absolutely 100% agree. TF and Bonus rolls kept things interesting. Removing them because players who didn't understand probability couldn't control themselves was a bad change for the game overall. Loot in shadowlands is boring as shit.

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you really wanna tell (semi) professional raiders they shall additionally go endless m+ until they get the lucky procs ? didnt we had this in Legion before the big shitstorm and burnout of the raiding scene?

i would agree, if every week you choose a path and you could do m+ runs OR raids. but having both accessible, this would be total overkill.

i mean, m+ is already the better progression route and EVERY competitive profesional raider do m+ runs too. but your suggestion would bring back every downsize why blizz changed this in the first place.

so ????

By "competitive professional raider" you mean people who compete for world first right? Because I assure you even in top 50 guilds not everyone is running M+. Should they be with as faceroll as it is? Probably. But it also isn't fun.

[OokOok]

Mythic+ WF/TF is the only reason I would come back. People bitched about WF/TF but borrowed power is the exact same non sense, just a means of making you grind and get stronger. EXCEPT wf/tf is actually useful on alts or people back from breaks.
If you take a month break you're fucked, you fall behind the average ilvl, your guilds ilvl, pugs ilvl and it's impossible to get in groups "DURRRRRRRRRRR MASKE UR OWN GroSUPps!" yeah we know, die in a fire.
WF/TF was an actual means of gearing up alts or returning players.

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you really wanna tell (semi) professional raiders they shall additionally go endless m+ until they get the lucky procs ? didnt we had this in Legion before the big shitstorm and burnout of the raiding scene?

You know BFA had WF/TF too right?

[Biomega]

Isn't this what valor is for, though?

I'd much rather upgrade items I know are BiS through valor that I can get in any dungeon, than run the same dungeon 500 times in a row hoping for a WF/TF drop of the right item.

If you want a nice bonus reward, just have a valor blob drop on rare occasions that gives extra valor.

[Eazy]

No.

That's a false carrot on a stick for a bad players that cannot get their best item from +15 and they can only farm low keys.

[Bee76]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

Legion/first half of Bfa were the greatest. Every end of dungeon chest contained a potential big upgrade. Every dungeon was run in anticipation of great loot. Fun times.

Blizzard always listens to the wrong people. Titanforging was the greatest. Loot and M+ are super boring in Shadowlands.

I agree to this!
I dont care for the whiners who want their Bis and then stop playing. M+ was fun with WF/TF. And the great frustration....uhm great vault situation gets even worse if you play m+ and do mythic raiding. Real low raiddrops, so you have to wait for the garbage vault to pick one item out of m+ and raiding, real fun yeah....

"Go spend hours of time for 1 item of loot!" - thx Blizz....

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I'm not going to go in circles with you. There was a reason why it was removed from the game, and thats because the negatives far outweight the positives of the system. End of story.

Well more and more leaving players might disagree to your point. Nearly no gear progression outside of that great vault bullsh*t doesnt feel rewarding or like a funny way to spend your time filling that vault with options. The actual system feels way more toxic, and i would assume wow lost way more players to the "cool new great vault centred" gearing system than to the wf/tf/bonusroll system.

[Eli85]

I honestly didn't mind Titanforging when it was around, but I don't see a valid reason for why it should come back. Right now, Mythic iLevel starts at 252, and you can upgrade M+ loot to iLevel 246. So, if you're not raiding Mythic, you can get very high iLevels outside of the Great Vault, and if you are raiding Mythic this is a non-issue.

I just don't see why Titanforging needs to come back when you can get iLevel 246 gear by just doing M+, and of course the weekly iLevel 252 gear from the Great Vault. Being fully geared in 6 iLevels below Mythic gear is not a "big enough upgrade" for solely dungeon content?

I think we can have valid discussion about drop rates, but is the rare hypothetical Titanforge to iLevel 252 really needed when you can upgrade gear to iLevel 246?

[BeepBoo]

It's so boring without any chance to get an upgrade ever outside the waiting vault.

I want to play the game to get upgrades, not sit and wait for my weekly welfare loot.

And I don't want games where nolyfers get to brute force slot machines with random rewards that make them more powerful than me. I want competition where the only thing that matters is skill after you get to an easily achievable gear cap.

[Kokolums]

I have always supported titanforging. That was an awesome game mechanic. WORLDS better than bean-counting badges for gear.

[Xecetoz]

plenty of upgrades at this point though with vp cap being at 8500

what good do VPs do when you can't even upgrade your gear anymore?

Like im sitting at full 246/252 only got 239 in sockets places. but got 246/252 in back for w/e


what they need to do is either let M+ Gear have a small chance to be 252 at end of run. no TF just max lvl chance. so its not only weekly.
also an item you buy, now SoD is cleared and info about the sockets have come out. that allows you to give a socket slot, for shards on M+ gear however there wont be any bonus, for that you still need SoD gear. and the bonus don't work in M+ anyway.

[czarek]

xD community QQ about titanfroging and they erase it. Now u QQing for bringing it back ? LOL

[deenman]

No thanks.

Quite frankly, they should never reintroduce this or bonus rolls or any sort of rng warforge/titanforge on quest / world quest items ever again.

It was toxic to the game.

it was fine in mop and wod with just +6 proc,heck make it +5 only,legion kinda whent to far with +70