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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So lets hear your plan?
    dude, changes to how the website works is going to affect people, like, that's a fucking given. I don't have all the answers to the exact details to make it so one person has equal engagement to everyone else, but the goal is to make social media equitable. which, in case you didn't realize is why troll farms are a problem, that social media is itself not equitable by virtue of their being a profit motive.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-09-21 at 06:21 PM.

  2. #122
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You mean like China and Russia?
    Or like how a lot of countries already do it, but they also drink water so you better stop drinking too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

  3. #123
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    People seriously overestimate how much the First Amendment protects them. There's plenty of types of speech that aren't protected speech.
    Don't get me wrong. I know it doesn't protect everything, but it protect enough that it can't do much like people seem to think here. Unless it's speech that is causing serious harm in some way they are limited in what they can do.

    vegas82 wasn't able to answer so lets see if you can.

    If I make the statement on social media in the manner of "I think Endus smells like poo" What law am I breaking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    dude, changes to how the website works is going to affect people, like, that's a fucking given. I don't have all the answers to the exact details to make it so one person has equal engagement to everyone else, but the goal is to make social media equitable. which, in case you didn't realize is why troll farms are a problem, that social media is itself not equitable by virtue of their being a profit motive.
    So you don't have a real answer. You just threw out some buzz words hoping someone would agree.
    Last edited by Orange Joe; 2021-09-21 at 06:26 PM.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post

    So you don't have a real answer. You just threw out some buzz words hoping someone would agree.
    oh? okay sorry I didn't come up with something as bold and concrete as "truth". yeah "truth" really wins the day on the internet, it's been wining for the past 10 years, hasn't it? we're not having a conversation about misinformation running rampant on the internet. that's silly when Truth is sitting patiently in the corner. truth is all you need guys! "the truth is the truth and that's all it is, the truth."
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-09-21 at 06:29 PM.

  5. #125
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    oh? okay sorry I didn't come up with something as bold and concrete as "truth". yeah "truth" really wins the day on the internet, it's been wining for the past 10 years, hasn't it? we're not having a conversation about misinformation running rampant on the internet. that's silly when Truth is sitting patiently in the corner. truth is all you need guys! "the truth is the truth and that's all it is, the truth."
    You are right it's 100 time better than "change the algorithms that I have no idea how they work"
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  6. #126
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    oh? okay sorry I didn't come up with something as bold and concrete as "truth". yeah "truth" really wins the day on the internet, it's been wining for the past 10 years, hasn't it?
    I mean, yeah. A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth can even get its pants on. The problem with "truth will win out", as a principle, can be separated into multiple points of failure;

    1> Many prefer comforting lies to harsh truths. Particularly bigots and partisan extremists; the most likely to push these kinds of disinformation. They reject the truth because it does not confirm their pre-existing beliefs. They are seeking confirmation, not education.

    2> It takes multiple sources to debunk a given lie. The lie requires zero sources and can be tossed off the cuff. In the time it took to debunk the first lie, the liar's already told three more lies. Those focusing on truth can't ever catch up.

    3> Truth is often complicated. Lies are most often dead simple, precisely to make them easier to comprehend and accept. There's no way around this, because any attempt to oversimplify the truth turns into just another lie, after a certain point.

    The truth has the advantage that it always wins out eventually. But that "eventually" may be in the context of "we now know that the cause of World War 3 breaking out some 150 years ago can be definitively traced to the actions of troll farms based out of Russia in the late 2010s and early 2020s". "Eventually" does not mean "soon" and does not even mean "within any living person's lifetime".
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-09-21 at 06:33 PM.


  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    You are right it's 100 time better than "change the algorithms that I have no idea how they work"
    so this is just you virtue signaling. not actually interested in dealing with the problem. at least I'm honest and not pretending to have all the exact answers that are going to be dismissed anyway.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-09-21 at 06:34 PM.

  8. #128
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    so this is just you virtue signaling. not actually interested in dealing with the problem.
    Nah this is me responding in kind.....

    I'm open to actual ideas not, "Have the government change the algorithms that I don't know how they work"


    Hell I would be open to the only paid content being actual product ads and not information campaigns.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Nah this is me responding in kind.....

    I'm open to actual ideas not, "Have the government change the algorithms that I don't know how they work"
    you can't even begin to explain what "truth" is or what it's supposed to mean in literally any context. it's woefully naïve to the point of satire.

  10. #130
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    you can't even begin to explain what "truth" is or what it's supposed to mean in literally any context. it's woefully naïve to the point of satire.



    That was extremely simple.

    Meanwhile can you explain how the algorithm currently works and how you would change it?
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    That was extremely simple.

    Meanwhile can you explain how the algorithm currently works and how you would change it?
    yes, so simple that it's incredibly vague and can mean anything. you lazy hack.

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    yes, so simple that it's incredibly vague and can mean anything. you lazy hack.
    yes how silly of me. The literally definition can mean anything..... lmfao...
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And?

    This isn't an argument. This is like saying "driving a car is totally fine, until someone decides to drive their car into a crowd of protestors to kill a bunch of them." Yeah, the latter's a problem. That's why you need laws to prosecute such actions. It doesn't mean you've made an argument against the first part, at all.

    Your position here is fine if your argument is "we shouldn't support our country becoming an authoritarian regime". It isn't fine if you're trying to argue against government regulation or ownership. That's where you're straight off the rails and trying to claim all car owners are murderers.



    I would argue that you're asking the wrong question.

    If the USA has become a failed state that is collapsing into ethnofascist bullshit, then that's already a problem, and this particular issue isn't a contributing factor.

    "Do you want domestic terrorists to be able to buy a car they can use to drive into crowds of protestors?" Same kind of question. The issue isn't "buying cars" in the analogy, or "government ownership" in what we're talking about, it's the specific motives of the specific actors you're introducing into the example.



    People seriously overestimate how much the First Amendment protects them. There's plenty of types of speech that aren't protected speech.
    And... we've seen what happens when totalitarian and authoritarian regimes take control of things like social media. And... I fucking enjoy the First Amendment.

    And I fucking enjoy people being free to speak their minds, and having access to information... and not just the information the government deems appropriate.

    I'm not asking the wrong question, because he literally called to nationalize all companies (I assume all social media). This isn't even a hypothetical, because it's literally his argument. The "good guys" aren't always going to be in charge.

    This is giving more power and authority to those ethno-natioalists.

    And... why do you want to give them more power?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Or like how a lot of countries already do it, but they also drink water so you better stop drinking too.
    Give me a good "for instance."

    I asked the other dude, but he ran away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    dude, changes to how the website works is going to affect people, like, that's a fucking given. I don't have all the answers to the exact details to make it so one person has equal engagement to everyone else, but the goal is to make social media equitable. which, in case you didn't realize is why troll farms are a problem, that social media is itself not equitable by virtue of their being a profit motive.
    "Changes, bro."

    That is vague nonsense.

    You don't have all the answers, you don't have any of them. Yet, you want the government to control them all. Meanwhile, I asked you specifically about your country, and how they did it, and you dodged and ran away. Clearly, you're not even able to use your own country as a model.

    So, what country would be the model?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    yes, so simple that it's incredibly vague and can mean anything. you lazy hack.
    This isn't an argument, it's you being angry, because you are being challenged on your vague comments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    you can't even begin to explain what "truth" is or what it's supposed to mean in literally any context. it's woefully naïve to the point of satire.
    Can you explain it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    so this is just you virtue signaling. not actually interested in dealing with the problem. at least I'm honest and not pretending to have all the exact answers that are going to be dismissed anyway.
    So, how exactly would you deal with the problem?

    Having Trump control all the social media doesn't seem like much of a solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  14. #134
    I'm really at a lose as to why I should waste my time researching any of this when I know it's going to be dismissed outright for not fitting the narrative of the person I'm responding to.

    "posts the definition of truth" like that means anything on it's own.

    "government doing anything = bad" got real boring to argue with a while ago.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm really at a lose as to why I should waste my time researching any of this when I know it's going to be dismissed outright for not fitting that narrative of the person I'm responding to.
    Because... it's your claim. You are asking why you should bother to have an answer for why you have the argument you're making.

    Yes, you are at a loss, which is our point. You are simply regurgitating talking points, and you have no substance. Hell, you cannot even answer simple questions, like how your own country does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm really at a lose as to why I should waste my time researching any of this when I know it's going to be dismissed outright for not fitting the narrative of the person I'm responding to.

    "posts the definition of truth" like that means anything on it's own.

    "government doing anything = bad" got real boring to argue with a while ago.
    Nobody is saying that, nobody is making that argument. that's simply you not being able to address your own argument.

    Of course, I dare you to actually find that argument being made. Either one would be fine. I'll take any refusal to do so as an admission you were trying to deflect, to make up for your own lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  16. #136
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm really at a lose as to why I should waste my time researching any of this when I know it's going to be dismissed outright for not fitting the narrative of the person I'm responding to.

    "posts the definition of truth" like that means anything on it's own.

    "government doing anything = bad" got real boring to argue with a while ago.
    Hello Pot. Meet Kettle......
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The truth has the advantage that it always wins out eventually. But that "eventually" may be in the context of "we now know that the cause of World War 3 breaking out some 150 years ago can be definitively traced to the actions of troll farms based out of Russia in the late 2010s and early 2020s". "Eventually" does not mean "soon" and does not even mean "within any living person's lifetime".
    no, stop, you can't bring logic and reason into this, only feelings and gut emotions.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    no, stop, you can't bring logic and reason into this, only feelings and gut emotions.
    So, your solution is to trust authoritarian regimes and Donald Trump to be honest?

    Let me know how that works out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...rship_in_China
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  19. #139
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, your solution is to trust authoritarian regimes and Donald Trump to be honest?

    Let me know how that works out.
    No do you see. You only have to change the algorithm. Doesn't matter how it works currently once you change it, it will fix everything.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
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  20. #140
    People should be able to freely access misinformation about covid19 no matter how many people it inadvertently kills! /s

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