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  1. #1

    Unhappy Can someone help me understand the lore of Sylvanas and the Jailer breaking up?

    Because so far all i understood was that Sylvanas and the Jailer were going to break into a store.
    They get there and sylvanas feels betrayed that he wasn't doing this for just some lousy ice cream like she intended, so now she thinks he is a bad person and she calls him out after doing all the dirty work and says to the players that ''WE MUST STOP HIM!''

    Which leaves me dumbfounded

  2. #2
    Actually, that about sums it up.

    She thought she was Edgy Peter Pan working with Jack the Ripper, and is shocked that Jack is actually evil.

  3. #3
    For reasons that will be revealed in an upcoming book(1), Sylvanas wants to break the cycle(2). She made a deal with, or was tricked by, or thought she could help(3) the Jailer to do this. Unfortunately, it turned out that the Jailer wasn't just cunning (like Sylvanas), indifferent to the suffering of others (like Sylvanas), but was also manipulative and ambitious (like Sylvanas)... in a shocking reveal that everyone saw coming except Slyvanas, he wants to go to the Sepulchre(4) and remake reality(5) so that all(6) will serve him. Sylvanas decides that after serving him for two expansions (at least), she will never(7) serve him. To set things up for her redemption arc, he also gave back the good half of her soul. This has successfully made every night elf player in WoW suddenly feel sorry for her(8).

    1. The book will not be free. It will be released well after the point where it would have been helpful establishing context for WTF is going on in Shadowlands.
    2. There is no cycle. Apart from rare, Ardenwealdy exceptions, people are born, they die, they go to the afterlife and either stay there, or fizzle out into batteries. I think Sylvanas just hates cyclists.
    3. The details and circumstances of Sylvannas' relationship with the Jailer are unknown. Possibly even by Blizzard.
    4. This is a place we didn't know existed until 9.1. In game characters avoid talking about in it our presence. This has helped to build zero anticipation.
    5. We have no idea to what extent he can do this, or why he even needs to if he can outright take charge of the endless realms of the Shadowlands. Can he alter or eliminate Titans? Void Lords? Even Classic botters? We don't know.
    6. Again, we have no idea who 'all' is. Does he mean all mortals? Souls in the Shadowlands? Every sentient being in the cosmos? We'll find out what the stakes are exactly four weeks before we stop him.
    7. 'Never' is a complicated, subtle word with many different meanings. Like 'consistency', and 'consent'.
    8. We don't.
    NOTE: The above account is a work of satire. More knowledge players will be more helpful... but AFAICT that's the gist of it.

  4. #4
    In a nutshell:



    Not her brightest move, for sure, but she convinced herself it was the only option to avoid the suffering of the Maw, and any hope that the current system could be salvaged was folly. Better to "burn it" all down and make something else.

    Dominating others? Sure. Dominating her and forcing her to serve? No sirree. So it should be noted she has still done absolutely nothing selfless or redemptive.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2021-09-19 at 02:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    She literally had her "directed by robert b weide" moment. Thats it.

  6. #6
    Sylvanas was deeply attracted to bald men and she used that fetish to cope with her poor life choices. When the Jailer put his hat on she could no longer see his blinding cranium and so could no longer justify staying with him.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Not her brightest move, for sure, but she convinced herself it was the only option to avoid the suffering of the Maw, and any hope that the current system could be salvaged was folly. Better to "burn it" all down and make something else.

    Dominating others? Sure. Dominating her and forcing her to serve? No sirree. So it should be noted she has still done absolutely nothing selfless or redemptive.
    Sums it up. This story can now go only one of 2 shittty ways, either Sylvanas will be forgiven because "oops, I wanted good but that guy bamboozled me", or will be forgiven because that wasn't real Sylvanas, just a bad part of the soul split by Frostmourne. Cheerios.

    There was 1 simple solution for shit like this in my opinion. Have Sylvanas have a few, or fuck it - even one - follower who she dragged along for the ride because he or she was in the same situation. Someone with a face she'd actually want to help with her grand plan of "Breaking the cycle". Through the whole SL Sylvanas only interacts with Mr Barechest and sometimes with Anduin for those precious "Oh my, she sad" moments.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas was deeply attracted to bald men and she used that fetish to cope with her poor life choices. When the Jailer put his hat on she could no longer see his blinding cranium and so could no longer justify staying with him.
    Nathanos never stood a chance.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Sums it up. This story can now go only one of 2 shittty ways, either Sylvanas will be forgiven because "oops, I wanted good but that guy bamboozled me", or will be forgiven because that wasn't real Sylvanas, just a bad part of the soul split by Frostmourne. Cheerios.
    That second part was kinda countered by Uther sharing his experience of part of his souls getting severed by Frostmourn. And there was way too much bad shit she has done for first version to be probable and believable.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-09-19 at 05:35 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Sums it up. This story can now go only one of 2 shittty ways, either Sylvanas will be forgiven because "oops, I wanted good but that guy bamboozled me", or will be forgiven because that wasn't real Sylvanas, just a bad part of the soul split by Frostmourne. Cheerios.

    There was 1 simple solution for shit like this in my opinion. Have Sylvanas have a few, or fuck it - even one - follower who she dragged along for the ride because he or she was in the same situation. Someone with a face she'd actually want to help with her grand plan of "Breaking the cycle". Through the whole SL Sylvanas only interacts with Mr Barechest and sometimes with Anduin for those precious "Oh my, she sad" moments.
    That pretty must sums up the entirety of WoW, on both sides.

  11. #11
    unless i'm missing something, sylvanas doesn't even call him out. he just says all will serve which triggers sylvanas. it's like sylvanas is perpetually a teenager with the writers. she changes her mind on a whim.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    unless i'm missing something, sylvanas doesn't even call him out. he just says all will serve which triggers sylvanas. it's like sylvanas is perpetually a teenager with the writers. she changes her mind on a whim.
    Nah. It's just in that moment, after all that time working for him, only now she has realized Jailer is like LK.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-09-19 at 06:06 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Nah. It's just in that moment, after all that time working for him, only now she has realized Jailer is like LK.
    even though the jailer literally made the lk.

  14. #14
    Nothing to understand, stop trying. Seriously, go back and read the lore, start at WC3 and move up all the way to shadowlands. You'll find that warcraft/WoW's lore and story is kind of like Game of thrones where it's really good for season 1-4....but then we hit season 5 which is Cata,Mop,Wod and it's like...wait what? but... then we get to legion/season 6 and it's like ok the writing is kind of bad but it's fucking cool atleast.

    Then.... we hit bfa/season 7.. the writing is still following the plot kind of.. but you can tell that whoever is writing this is a fucking moron. Which leads us to season 8/shadowlands... where the plot doesn't make sense and it's trailed off so far that you stop trying to understand it, and you can tell that they decided to just put in a bunch of shit to make players go "OOOOOOH COOOOOOL! WoooooooWW" and yeah.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Catalept View Post
    For reasons that will be revealed in an upcoming book(1), Sylvanas wants to break the cycle(2). She made a deal with, or was tricked by, or thought she could help(3) the Jailer to do this. Unfortunately, it turned out that the Jailer wasn't just cunning (like Sylvanas), indifferent to the suffering of others (like Sylvanas), but was also manipulative and ambitious (like Sylvanas)... in a shocking reveal that everyone saw coming except Slyvanas, he wants to go to the Sepulchre(4) and remake reality(5) so that all(6) will serve him. Sylvanas decides that after serving him for two expansions (at least), she will never(7) serve him. To set things up for her redemption arc, he also gave back the good half of her soul. This has successfully made every night elf player in WoW suddenly feel sorry for her(8).

    1. The book will not be free. It will be released well after the point where it would have been helpful establishing context for WTF is going on in Shadowlands.
    2. There is no cycle. Apart from rare, Ardenwealdy exceptions, people are born, they die, they go to the afterlife and either stay there, or fizzle out into batteries. I think Sylvanas just hates cyclists.
    3. The details and circumstances of Sylvannas' relationship with the Jailer are unknown. Possibly even by Blizzard.
    4. This is a place we didn't know existed until 9.1. In game characters avoid talking about in it our presence. This has helped to build zero anticipation.
    5. We have no idea to what extent he can do this, or why he even needs to if he can outright take charge of the endless realms of the Shadowlands. Can he alter or eliminate Titans? Void Lords? Even Classic botters? We don't know.
    6. Again, we have no idea who 'all' is. Does he mean all mortals? Souls in the Shadowlands? Every sentient being in the cosmos? We'll find out what the stakes are exactly four weeks before we stop him.
    7. 'Never' is a complicated, subtle word with many different meanings. Like 'consistency', and 'consent'.
    8. We don't.
    NOTE: The above account is a work of satire. More knowledge players will be more helpful... but AFAICT that's the gist of it.


    I will go a but further. Sylvannis is a satire of the current trend of people blindly following someone promising everything but is really using them. Thus has happened time and time again in history.

    While blizzard's delivery was heavy handed if you look at the game you will see almost every major expansion are various forms of satire. This one upsets a lot of people because the butt of the satire is a lot of people who are like Sylvannis on a much smaller scale. And people have a real hard time being reminded of mistakes they may have made.

  16. #16
    What is happening is a classic case of the reveals being valued higher than the plot. It's a hallmark of poorly planned out stories.
    It's why Palpatine returns in episode 9.
    It's why Daenerys goes mad in season 8.
    It's why when all is said and done the burning of Teldrassil and whatever will happen with Sylvanas after this is better left as two wildly different stories, because finding a coherent through line will likely be impossible when both were likely conceived as two separate "OMG, I can't believe X did that!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    The writers are putting the cart before the horse essentially. Reveals should amplify relevant plot threads, not treat them like the appetizer before the big climax.

    Whether through sheer incompetence or the plot barelling out of control faster than the writers can attempt to correct it is irrelevant at this stage. The writing can't really be saved for this plotthread at this time with the tools and time available to the writers.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #17
    Sylvanas is just one of the dumbest characters in the entire WoW Lore since Legion, that's all.

    Remember when Sylvanas said that everyone will server her/death?

    And now when Jailer said the same thing she was triggered?

    Inb4 "she wasn't herself", "she was controlled", "her souls war torn", "you don't understand becase she has a special plan playing 5d chess with everyone!".

    Only a super fanboy with plenty of mental gymnastics could deny that she's stupid and try to find a logical answer for her idiotic behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas was deeply attracted to bald men and she used that fetish to cope with her poor life choices. When the Jailer put his hat on she could no longer see his blinding cranium and so could no longer justify staying with him.
    Thanks for making my day. I really appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Vox View Post
    Nathanos never stood a chance.
    Although he has kinda high forehead he isn't a match for the bald king of death.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2021-09-20 at 09:38 AM.

  18. #18
    I'm reminded of something; "Don't expect gratitude from the the tiger you've freed from the cage."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Catalept View Post
    For reasons that will be revealed in an upcoming book(1), Sylvanas wants to break the cycle(2). She made a deal with, or was tricked by, or thought she could help(3) the Jailer to do this. Unfortunately, it turned out that the Jailer wasn't just cunning (like Sylvanas), indifferent to the suffering of others (like Sylvanas), but was also manipulative and ambitious (like Sylvanas)... in a shocking reveal that everyone saw coming except Slyvanas, he wants to go to the Sepulchre(4) and remake reality(5) so that all(6) will serve him. Sylvanas decides that after serving him for two expansions (at least), she will never(7) serve him. To set things up for her redemption arc, he also gave back the good half of her soul. This has successfully made every night elf player in WoW suddenly feel sorry for her(8).

    1. The book will not be free. It will be released well after the point where it would have been helpful establishing context for WTF is going on in Shadowlands.
    2. There is no cycle. Apart from rare, Ardenwealdy exceptions, people are born, they die, they go to the afterlife and either stay there, or fizzle out into batteries. I think Sylvanas just hates cyclists.
    3. The details and circumstances of Sylvannas' relationship with the Jailer are unknown. Possibly even by Blizzard.
    4. This is a place we didn't know existed until 9.1. In game characters avoid talking about in it our presence. This has helped to build zero anticipation.
    5. We have no idea to what extent he can do this, or why he even needs to if he can outright take charge of the endless realms of the Shadowlands. Can he alter or eliminate Titans? Void Lords? Even Classic botters? We don't know.
    6. Again, we have no idea who 'all' is. Does he mean all mortals? Souls in the Shadowlands? Every sentient being in the cosmos? We'll find out what the stakes are exactly four weeks before we stop him.
    7. 'Never' is a complicated, subtle word with many different meanings. Like 'consistency', and 'consent'.
    8. We don't.
    NOTE: The above account is a work of satire. More knowledge players will be more helpful... but AFAICT that's the gist of it.
    Why is this comment so on point and just sums up Shadowlands perfectly?
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Catalept View Post
    For reasons that will be revealed in an upcoming book(1), Sylvanas wants to break the cycle(2). She made a deal with, or was tricked by, or thought she could help(3) the Jailer to do this. Unfortunately, it turned out that the Jailer wasn't just cunning (like Sylvanas), indifferent to the suffering of others (like Sylvanas), but was also manipulative and ambitious (like Sylvanas)... in a shocking reveal that everyone saw coming except Slyvanas, he wants to go to the Sepulchre(4) and remake reality(5) so that all(6) will serve him. Sylvanas decides that after serving him for two expansions (at least), she will never(7) serve him. To set things up for her redemption arc, he also gave back the good half of her soul. This has successfully made every night elf player in WoW suddenly feel sorry for her(8).

    1. The book will not be free. It will be released well after the point where it would have been helpful establishing context for WTF is going on in Shadowlands.
    2. There is no cycle. Apart from rare, Ardenwealdy exceptions, people are born, they die, they go to the afterlife and either stay there, or fizzle out into batteries. I think Sylvanas just hates cyclists.
    3. The details and circumstances of Sylvannas' relationship with the Jailer are unknown. Possibly even by Blizzard.
    4. This is a place we didn't know existed until 9.1. In game characters avoid talking about in it our presence. This has helped to build zero anticipation.
    5. We have no idea to what extent he can do this, or why he even needs to if he can outright take charge of the endless realms of the Shadowlands. Can he alter or eliminate Titans? Void Lords? Even Classic botters? We don't know.
    6. Again, we have no idea who 'all' is. Does he mean all mortals? Souls in the Shadowlands? Every sentient being in the cosmos? We'll find out what the stakes are exactly four weeks before we stop him.
    7. 'Never' is a complicated, subtle word with many different meanings. Like 'consistency', and 'consent'.
    8. We don't.
    NOTE: The above account is a work of satire. More knowledge players will be more helpful... but AFAICT that's the gist of it.
    Best post.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

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