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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I'd rather they take the time to fix the mess than squish.
    I'm sure they rather would as well, but that's not how this works, outside of the code alone there are tons of other factors that limit their ability to do that with basically anything in the game. There are tons of weird things they'd love to fix, like Glamour Dressers not being allowed in houses, but it's not as simple as "just take the time and fix it" and it's pretty lame to just act like they're coping out and not trying or something. It's likely their literal last option.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Small power increases don't feel like you're increasing in power.

    In a gear based game upgrades need to feel like upgrades.

    And yes, it feels bad going from 1 million one day to 10k the next, there's nothing we can do about it, but it doesn't feel good.

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    Thing is, every one after wod wasn't needed. they fixed the limitation in legion.
    Numbers in WoW do not represent the players power, time to kill something represents a players power, an upgrade should only be a small increase in power, anything more and its just inflating for no good reason, we need a much smaller gap between a player gear from the first raid of an expansion and the last raid of the expansion, massive stat increases just make all the other content in the expansion far too easy.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    How can a squish ruin the game, if things take the same time to kill it changes nothing,
    As you said, if things take the same time but they don't. First squish they had to add a buff to all pre-Mists instances because they were taking longer to do than pre-squish and they had to do so again after the 2nd squish.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I'm sure they rather would as well, but that's not how this works, outside of the code alone there are tons of other factors that limit their ability to do that with basically anything in the game. There are tons of weird things they'd love to fix, like Glamour Dressers not being allowed in houses, but it's not as simple as "just take the time and fix it" and it's pretty lame to just act like they're coping out and not trying or something. It's likely their literal last option.
    It's likely more: "it would cost this much to fix, or this much to band aid" and the band aid number is lower so that's what was authorized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Numbers in WoW do not represent the players power, time to kill something represents a players power, an upgrade should only be a small increase in power, anything more and its just inflating for no good reason, we need a much smaller gap between a player gear from the first raid of an expansion and the last raid of the expansion, massive stat increases just make all the other content in the expansion far too easy.
    The power increase we have right now is what it takes to feel like an upgrade is an upgrade.

    If things don't feel like upgrades, people don't do them.

  5. #45
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    TWITCH:
    41.3k views World of Warcraft
    12,7k views FF

    I know which king is gonna rule over which

    Even tho pple say FF is busier then WOW, it show doesnt show.
    HOLY SHIT GIMLIX WITH THE NUKE
    I don't think I've ever, ever seen Gimlix post with this much quality. Do you accept donations for good posts?

  6. #46
    Well assuming extreme, sustained and lucrative success for a few years, I just don't see Square Enix ending up in Blizzard's position of corporate greed taking over every single aspect of development and marketing. They have many more titles to sell and a much brighter future as a corporate entity. They might end up pushing things a bit too far here and there, but again I just don't see them alienating/betraying substantial but less lucrative parts of their playerbase for a quick buck or better optics in a quarterly report.

    I'm very sure however that they would be astute enough to pull the plug when the time is right instead of intensifying efforts to squeeze the last drop out of the udder at any cost to their company name. They'd probably have the next game ready to ship before that happens anyway, if not two or three. But even if the game eventually started drying up like WoW did, unlike Blizzard they would not have put all their eggs in that one basket and have the freedom to just live with their losses and focus on other avenues.

  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Same old story, nothing new.

    I have seen it way too many times. WoW is doing badly, some new game is doing well, and MMOChampion is literally flooded with people in every thread saying "Welp, time to jump ship!", "Luckily (new game) is way better than WoW", "I stopped playing WoW thanks to (new game)".

    Next, the novelty will wear off, WoW will launch a new patch, people will come back to check. Some will realize they have too many achievements/memories in WoW to start new and feel a lot of fatigue in the new game, so they will get back. Others will just plain like the patch and stay. Others will quit altogether because they are burnt out of the MMO genre. Others will keep playing the new game.

    Just look at Age of Conan, Warhammer, Metin, Wildstar, Kotor. If you think this time will be different, you haven't been paying attention.

    There is nothing wrong in trying out new stuff, and all the praise FF is getting is just mildly annoying for an outsider. But WoW will die because Blizzard will pull the plug, not sooner. The rest is wishful thinking and loud mouths.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I'm very sure however that they would be astute enough to pull the plug when the time is right instead of intensifying efforts to squeeze the last drop out of the udder at any cost to their company name.
    Are you sure about that? FFXI still has a sub fee and just released new content.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Are you sure about that? FFXI still has a sub fee and just released new content.
    Very sure yes. I'm not sure how anyone would think now is the time for SE to pull the plug on FFXIV, but you do you lol.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Very sure yes. I'm not sure how anyone would think now is the time for SE to pull the plug on FFXIV, but you do you lol.
    I didn't say FFXIV, i said FFXI, Eleven, a game older than wow that still is being milked.

  11. #51
    9.1.5 and 9.2 will determine how wow moves forward I think. As for FF14 it's hard to say, I suspect endwalker is going to have a rough launch as the servers won't be able to handle it and getting new hardware is a PITA right now.

    I do agree squishes hurt RPG's and MMO's maybe not a lot and I'm just one anecdotal example as it kills the sense of power growth for me, same with scaling mobs.

    Both games need to learn something WoW could use FF14's trust system and expand on it, FF14 could use WoW's adventure guide esp at max level to help players know what to do next.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    The power increase we have right now is what it takes to feel like an upgrade is an upgrade.

    If things don't feel like upgrades, people don't do them.
    Gear is easy to get, all you do is put on the highest ilvl piece of gear and if you can be bothered you go for gear with slightly better secondary stats, gear is the most boring power system available and most players dont really care about gear since you just get it while playing anyway, if you can clear your preffered content a gear upgrade is just a nice to have thing.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I didn't say FFXIV, i said FFXI, Eleven, a game older than wow that still is being milked.
    I see what you are saying. I don't play FFXI so I don't know how greedy the model is for that game, but in general I appreciate it when giant companies keep their games online even after they stop being profitable. Charging a sub and keeping the game online for the few that still want to play is not inherently greedy.

    Let alone the fact that they have developed and published FFXIV, a game within the same franchise and genre that people can freely move to if they want to. Which is exactly what I was talking about in my original post btw.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Gear is easy to get, all you do is put on the highest ilvl piece of gear and if you can be bothered you go for gear with slightly better secondary stats, gear is the most boring power system available and most players dont really care about gear since you just get it while playing anyway, if you can clear your preffered content a gear upgrade is just a nice to have thing.
    I play to gear, so gear increases mean a lot to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I see what you are saying. I don't play FFXI so I don't know how greedy the model is for that game, but in general I appreciate it when giant companies keep their games online even after they stop being profitable. Charging a sub and keeping the game online for the few that still want to play is not inherently greedy.

    Let alone the fact that they have developed and published FFXIV, a game within the same franchise and genre that people can freely move to if they want to. Which is exactly what I was talking about in my original post btw.
    Yea, i get what you're saying, and I think ffxi is actually still profitable for them with the 100k subs or so that people say it has.

  15. #55
    FF14 has all of WoW's problems and more. It's sloppy, it has PS2 graphics. the combat sucks, and the classes are homogenized further every expansion.

  16. #56
    I hope FFXIV does some things that critics have complained about in WoW. Because if it does, and doesn't suffer for them, then that's evidence that those things weren't the cause of WoW's decline.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  17. #57
    You guys notice that FF already had a massive drop on Twitch (behind WoW Viewers again for example), a 20% drop on steam players (which, as stochastics say, should be the same amount they lose everywhere in common sense).
    The trend is already going down. And that is happening fast.

    And also, the WoW Token Price is exploding, means more people buy it at the moment. A 20% increase in the time FF lost 20% of their players. Coincidence?

    Shareholder tips are also saying Hold with negative trend for SE.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's likely more: "it would cost this much to fix, or this much to band aid" and the band aid number is lower so that's what was authorized.
    Money is only one of the many factors. Time is a limited resource that has to be used wisely. Spending 200+ hours just to get glamour dressers to go in houses while there's tons of other major stuff needing to be done doesn't exactly seem like the best use of time when you need an expansion out the door. And you can't just hire more people because budgets exist regardless of how greedy or not the company is, and these games can only make so much money.

    If you want a game that's never squished, go play EQ2. I think they're doing hundreds of trillions of DPS now. Raid zones lag every fight because of it, and you can't really see your numbers because there are so many procs and talents (over 350 talent points!) that you just get a cloud of numbers every swing/skill. THey literally have to design fights around not having too many adds or things going on because numbers are so big. But hey they've never diminished your feeling of power growth via squishes! It must be doing great and is totally not dying right? Cause the squish killed WoW so no squish means vibrant, amazing game right? Right?

  19. #59
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I hope FFXIV does some things that critics have complained about in WoW. Because if it does, and doesn't suffer for them, then that's evidence that those things weren't the cause of WoW's decline.
    It’s already doing that with say people complaining about the shop and people leaving because of it when Ff has a much larger one.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #60
    The problem I see with FF is that they are absolutely stubborn to evolve past anything that is 1995. The website and the forums should need to disapear today, as well as start improving from the smalles elements, like graphics, UI, and addon support, and then work your way upwards.

    One thing I like about the Blizzard is all the talented people that works for the company, I really admire artist and all other good peopole who pour their hearts out in many passion projects. Blizzard really improved in a lot aspects throughout many years years, FF seems to be stuck in one place and I suspect they aren't considering improving.

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