If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[Onikaroshi]

I doubt that. WoW has always dominated any MMORPG when it comes to viewership and activity. it is just easy standard to see how popular it is to other games.
WoW is as much fun to watch as FF is. So both are boring.

WoW still has triple its viewership. and when it launches a new expansion it surpasses 1.000.000 views. while FF cant even get to 100k .

WoW has decent pvp that a lot of people watch, many channels are dedicated to wow pvp.

It also depends on who's streaming, when asmon streams FF you going to ff is obviously more popular because it has 50k viewers?

FF is also a LOT more boring to watch, a lot. It's story based, there is very little combat when people are leveling

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No, actually it shows that their systems can't handle the absolutely massive numbers that were being thrown about. They explained this already. The squish is because they were getting number errors(think the nuclear ghandi error in civ) not "fuck your progression!" that's just in your head.

Fix the problem, wow did it with legion, but still keeps doing stupid squishes.

[Shakzor]

I doubt that. WoW has always dominated any MMORPG when it comes to viewership and activity. it is just easy standard to see how popular it is to other games.
WoW is as much fun to watch as FF is. So both are boring.

WoW still has triple its viewership. and when it launches a new expansion it surpasses 1.000.000 views. while FF cant even get to 100k .

Viewernumbers on twitch are definitely not direct indication "game x is more popular than game y". By that logic, mobile gaming is fucking dead and no one is playing Pokemon or FIFA.
What it is an indicator for tho, is that either people just like to watch WoW more or that there are simply streamers that people like to watch that play WoW. Cause i have high doubts that Osu! is more popular than Stardew Valley, because it has more viewers on twitch if we go with that logic.
There are a lot of games that sold like crazy, yet have barely any viewers or they fell off quickly.

[Jazzhands]

FF is doing a numbers squish with 6.0, I'm worried it's the start the of the downfall :S

It's for technical reasons. They literally have to, and they explained why recently in their Live Letter. The game is a tangled mess because of 1.0 and such.

[Onikaroshi]

It's for technical reasons. They literally have to, and they explained why recently in their Live Letter. The game is a tangled mess because of 1.0 and such.

I'd rather they take the time to fix the mess than squish.

[Zequill]

At least Japan is more airtight then California, so you will never hear story like cubicle crawl from there as those issue won't even leave the company. Not saying it won't happen, the country is now renown for their subway crawl after all. But contrary to California that see no issue to publicly sue one of their company, Japan would do everything it can to keep the appearance strong.

[Sagenod]

What buck? Just play what you want. It doesn't matter to me which MMORPG has the most subs. I just about which one is the most fun to me.

IDK, it's like some people are looking for permission from others to play a game.

The buck in this context is referring to the "responsibility" of the biggest MMO developer to lead the genre in a positive direction.

[Nihilist74]

I don't think I would ever like FFXIV. I loved the very first American final fantasy game on the NES. I hate final fantasy online because of the weeb-ish atmosphere, the cut scenes, and quest dialogue that goes on and on. Reminds me of the dragon age games. I don't think I like the class and class abilities either.
Blizzard is not doing a very good job of taking care of wow. They seem to put in systems in the game just to make people play the game longer for more subscription money. The latest expansions content is not that fun but when it comes to RPG and D&D style games, WOW is still the most fun for me mainly because of the classes, class abilities, and combat.

[Irian]

Yes and that's a big reason why many people including myself in the FFXIV community are less than thrilled at the WoW masses suddenly deciding the game isn't "weeb trash" anymore and making characters because a streamer took interest in it.

If I've learned anything in my time being around the WoW community, it's that they have the inverse Midas touch and a subsection of the playerbase will scientifically engineer the perfect way to suck the fun out of the game for everyone.

The best way for this to be avoided is, first of all, for the game to not start skimping on social aspects and features so that people understand this is an MMORPG and not an instanced raid simulator. The second best way is for WoW to start doing well again so the people who dedicate their lives to video games don't start ruining the game for everyone else with their shit attitudes.

[Onikaroshi]

Yes and that's a big reason why many people including myself in the FFXIV community are less than thrilled at the WoW masses suddenly deciding the game isn't "weeb trash" anymore and making characters because a streamer took interest in it.

If I've learned anything in my time being around the WoW community, it's that they have the inverse Midas touch and a subsection of the playerbase will scientifically engineer the perfect way to suck the fun out of the game for everyone.

The best way for this to be avoided is, first of all, for the game to not start skimping on social aspects and features so that people understand this is an MMORPG and not an instanced raid simulator. The second best way is for WoW to start doing well again so the people who dedicate their lives to video games don't start ruining the game for everyone else with their shit attitudes.

TBF, wow has always kind of been an instanced raid simulator with side social content and pvp, the problem is the casual content and pvp has taken a bad direction in the recent expansions.

[Tojara]

I don't think there will ever be a true passing of the torch. There's a lot of stuff to do in FF if you're new to the game or returning to the game, but that stuff doesn't last forever. The honeymoon period for people trying the game will end and people will be left wondering what else there is to do.

The thing is, that design is okay and trying to cement players into your game when there's nothing really to do isn't great. It however is eye rolling to see people say there's a massive amount of content to do, when 90% of it pertains to dressing up (all of which exists in WoW from a collection stand point too). Raids and trials are actually really good in FF, where people will tell you that you can always do savage if you're looking for hard content. At the same time people will ask what's the point of doing higher keys or anything higher than LFR in WoW like that doesn't count as content.

FF14 is a great game and distraction for me though and my time with it has made me enjoy some of the things it does way better than WoW. It's also a game that I'm going to pick up, play like crazy and then unsubscribe until they add new patches. WoW for me still has things that always keep me entertained though, in PVP and M+. All of which I'm willing to put down as well if I get bored.

TLDR; You can like both games.

[Maljinwo]

TWITCH:
41.3k views World of Warcraft
12,7k views FF

I know which king is gonna rule over which

Even tho pple say FF is busier then WOW, it show doesnt show.

And if FF ever surpasses wow, it won't rule forever either
It's just the way it is

Twitch isn't really a quality meter either, just popularity
Overwatch has 15k views which dwarfs Team Fortress 2

However TF2 is the superior game

[hulkgor]

What buck? Just play what you want. It doesn't matter to me which MMORPG has the most subs. I just about which one is the most fun to me.

IDK, it's like some people are looking for permission from others to play a game.

This, entirely.

People on their incessant search for validation for the game they play.

And here i am thinking that it's great to have many healthy, different MMOs to enjoy whenever one feels boring or stagnant in their wait for the next patch.

[Utrrabbit]

Not that I have any doubts about the game's quality or the developers' integrity, but that doesn't change the fact that the same gamers who complained about WoW are going to complain about Final Fantasy, right?

SquareEnix certainly has my confidence, but so did Blizzard for a very long time. The pressure of being top dog is substantial and indeed "the grass is always greener" on the other side.

(inb4 a slow decay of FFXIV optimism breaks down the community over the years)

But what do you think? Is FFXIV, for whatever reason, going to avoid trending downwards for an incredible amount of time like WoW? Bonus points if you explain what trajectory you see the MMO genre going in as a whole, considering the current landscape.

I do not understand this mass hysteria lie the community has made up. Yes FF14 is doing great. It however is STILL not out competeing WoW. It STILL has less sub numbers than WoW.

That is just fact. WoW lost maybe...maybe .5% of it's subs.

Also people LOVE to shit on blizz and the devs for making mistakes or the scandle; Now I am not saying it was not z piece of shit thing to do. Each person involved was a piece of shit snd should be held responsible. However the entire company has 10s of thousands of employees and only a small handful were involved. FF14 is not this haven too when you have ON national TV the ceo telling his employees to to physically kill themselves because they messed up the event.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

At least Japan is more airtight then California, so you will never hear story like cubicle crawl from there as those issue won't even leave the company. Not saying it won't happen, the country is now renown for their subway crawl after all. But contrary to California that see no issue to publicly sue one of their company, Japan would do everything it can to keep the appearance strong.

Actually some stuff already came out about the FFxiv team in august it just didn’t blow up like blizzard did.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Perscilal...66071811981315

[Utrrabbit]

The buck in this context is referring to the "responsibility" of the biggest MMO developer to lead the genre in a positive direction.

FF is not even CLOSE to being the biggesy. Compared to WoW it is a small fish in a big pond.

[Wrecktangle]

I do not understand this mass hysteria lie the community has made up. Yes FF14 is doing great. It however is STILL not out competeing WoW. It STILL has less sub numbers than WoW.

That is just fact. WoW lost maybe...maybe .5% of it's subs.

Also people LOVE to shit on blizz and the devs for making mistakes or the scandle; Now I am not saying it was not z piece of shit thing to do. Each person involved was a piece of shit snd should be held responsible. However the entire company has 10s of thousands of employees and only a small handful were involved. FF14 is not this haven too when you have ON national TV the ceo telling his employees to to physically kill themselves because they messed up the event.

Humor me though. How do you know for a fact FF14 has less subs than WoW? Do you have private information you're willing to share on either game that details actual concurrent subscribers at any recent data point? How do you know how WoW lost .5% subs (from what point to what point)? Was this value published anywhere or was this insider info you're privy too?

I have no idea which game has more subs so I don't speculate. I just merely call out when people (on either side) let their bias and irrationality make baseless statements. If you have data to prove your point I'll entertain it, but you're claiming facts with no actual analysis or basis and frankly it's disrespectful to an actual discussion.

[kenn9530]

Only the mop squish was required because of coding, they should have stopped after, who cares if we're doing 1 billion dps, you can make it like 1.4m and it's easy to read if you want. And the level squish is worst of all, no reason for it.

Squishes ruin the game.

How can a squish ruin the game, if things take the same time to kill it changes nothing, all that changes is you go from doing 1 million dps to 10k dps, inflated numbers is what ruins the game more, power increases should be small per expansion.

[deenman]

After the first squish we've gotten what, 3 bad expansions and one decent one? Plus squishes are anti-mmorpg progression, when they start doing that it shows they stopped caring about your character growing from expansion to expansion.

this morning i ate an apple,later that day i hit my toe on the desk....DAMN THAT APPLE!!

the squish has nothing to do with the games decline,also the squish was needed,the numbers were getting insane in mop,also the engine had limitations so they LITERALY HAD TO DO IT

i just wish they could do it....better...so it isnt needed every 1-2 expansions later lol

[Onikaroshi]

How can a squish ruin the game, if things take the same time to kill it changes nothing, all that changes is you go from doing 1 million dps to 10k dps, inflated numbers is what ruins the game more, power increases should be small per expansion.

Small power increases don't feel like you're increasing in power.

In a gear based game upgrades need to feel like upgrades.

And yes, it feels bad going from 1 million one day to 10k the next, there's nothing we can do about it, but it doesn't feel good.

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i just wish they could do it....better...so it isnt needed every 1-2 expansions later lol

Thing is, every one after wod wasn't needed. they fixed the limitation in legion.

[Jazzhands]

I'd rather they take the time to fix the mess than squish.

I'm sure they rather would as well, but that's not how this works, outside of the code alone there are tons of other factors that limit their ability to do that with basically anything in the game. There are tons of weird things they'd love to fix, like Glamour Dressers not being allowed in houses, but it's not as simple as "just take the time and fix it" and it's pretty lame to just act like they're coping out and not trying or something. It's likely their literal last option.