If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[ati87]

FF won't last? Your talking about it as if it's a new game it's been out since 2013 In my book it already has lasted, thats a good 8 years and I'm sure it'll have another 8 years if FFXI is anything to go by.

Also about 3-5% play via steam client rest play via SE client.

Yes and Wow has been going since 2004 and the highest number of players achieved by every other MMO is the lowest of what WOW has achieved.
If your enjoying the game please go have fun.

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Personally I think WoW playerbase was always ~5M after Vanilla and amount of people staying in game are similar to people quiting pernamently. 10-12M are either launch people (expacs from MoP onwards) and massive waves of people trying game first time during early WoW (between 2005 and 2013 ~100M accounts were created, while total number of subs at same time never went past 12M).

And huge FF hype (to be honest I hear about it a lot less after scandal, cause many people used FF just to bash Blizzard and they got much better weapon in July) won't last forever, but FF and ESO both have established playerbases and it's clear they both won't fade away like Wildstar or become more niche game like SWTOR. MMORPG players have choices and that's a good thing.

Also yeah, twitch is really focused on either FOTM, quick match PVP games or just personalities at this point. MMORPG have no place here beside launches or big competitions. WoW daily numbers were fake for years, cause big % of them was just guy who watch youtube about WoW and is popular for some reason.

Not going to argue about the accuracy of the numbers, we are talking about publicly traded companies here so if they release information they might try to sugarcoat it (best selling XXX by standard XX) but you can't lie about hard numbers themselves.

And yes, certain games have a clear established playerbase and a game like Eve Online will probably outlast WOW mostly because the people playing it will probably keep on playing the game for another decade or so.
The same with Runescape, I would not be surprised if some random Twitch streamer suddenly starts playing runescape and the game gets populaire yet regardless the surge in players will never last because that's the nature of things.

What both games have in common (and why they will outlast WoW) is that the people who are currently playing the game aren't following a hype and the developer is making enough money to keep supporting the game and bring out new content,

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That is copium talking.

As long as the game is good, it will get players support. It's that simple. It wasn't players complaining things weren't good that ruined WoW. The devs ruined WoW. It is very much a different situation.

People have been complaining about WoW being ruined by XYZ reason since TBC.
Every single change since the original release in 2004 has "ruined the game". Arena's ruined the game, pvp gear ruined the game, flying mounts ruined the game, smaller raids ruined the game and battlegrounds ruined the game.

Is it so hard to imagine that people just outgrew WoW? I haven't really touched WOW in years at this point (little bit early during this expansion) but that's mostly on me, the game still feels the exact same game as during WOTLK yet I can't be bothered anymore in spending my evenings raiding or do whatever to get a new items.

[Shillu]

Yes and Wow has been going since 2004 and the highest number of players achieved by every other MMO is the lowest of what WOW has achieved.
If your enjoying the game please go have fun.

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I never once stated wow was dead nor did it not have the highest recorded player base, However you did say that FFXIV would not last which in my opinion is a factually incorrect view point given how the game has been around for 8 years going on 9.

[RoKPaNda]

FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

[Vorkreist]

I doubt that. WoW has always dominated any MMORPG when it comes to viewership and activity. it is just easy standard to see how popular it is to other games.
WoW is as much fun to watch as FF is. So both are boring.

WoW still has triple its viewership. and when it launches a new expansion it surpasses 1.000.000 views. while FF cant even get to 100k .

I wanted to skip your first silly post but you seem to continue with that narrative. I can pick the stats during peak hours ( even without Asmongold ) or the actual streamers that jumped to FF and show how wrong you are. Why would you try to clown around with such an obvious and easy to dismantle lie ?
Only classic release got 1mil viewers but you again try to lie and say every shitty expansion gets those numbers.

[Shillu]

FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

FFXIV was healthy before asmon tried it people thinking this boom is magically made the game great are delusional so people don't watch a story driven game did you ever stop to think that might be because there playing it themselves and don't want the story spoiled. I'm not going to sit here an pretend the game doesn't have issue because it dose but if you really think twitch viewers is a good breakpoint of activity you might want to reconsider how you look at life.

[RoKPaNda]

FFXIV was healthy before asmon tried it people thinking this boom is magically made the game great are delusional so people don't watch a story driven game did you ever stop to think that might be because there playing it themselves and don't want the story spoiled. I'm not going to sit here an pretend the game doesn't have issue because it dose but if you really think twitch viewers is a good breakpoint of activity you might want to reconsider how you look at life.

I mean tens of thousands more people are watching people mount farm in a 17 year old game than are watching FFXIV at any given moment unless one specific streamer is streaming FFXIV. That's a pretty good indicator that the massive hype over the summer was overblown. I didn't say it was a dead game, I said it fell off, and it has. It's back to being one of the half dozen or so MMOs that people commonly play. You can say that something isn't the most popular thing without saying that it's shit. Maybe it's you who needs to reconsider how you look at things? Pretending that viewership of a game isn't a valid metric to judge popularity compared to other games in that genre seems like a really weird argument to me.

[Jtbrig7390]

FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

How well a game is doing on Twitch does not show how well its doing over all. Believe it or not maybe people are just playing the game and not watching others play it. Plus we are at the end of a expansion with a new one dropping in Nov.

[Ryzeth]

Most of the streamers that flocked to FF14 have already stopped playing. Or, at the very least, stopped playing even half as much as they were playing.

FF14 has a healthy population, but it's not gonna be a "WoW killer" any time soon. I say this as someone who mainly plays it, as well.

[Shillu]

Most of the streamers that flocked to FF14 have already stopped playing. Or, at the very least, stopped playing even half as much as they were playing.

FF14 has a healthy population, but it's not gonna be a "WoW killer" any time soon. I say this as someone who mainly plays it, as well.

I don't understand the whole wow killer mind-set, at the end of the day why can't people just enjoy games for what they are.

This is not to say your a person with a wow killer mind-set by the way just in general I don't understand why people have to always compare games.

[Yizu]

FF is doing a numbers squish with 6.0, I'm worried it's the start the of the downfall :S

How the f do you expect them to make challenging content by huge power jumps without the numbers going into Quattuordecillion dps lol

Raid mechanics only go so far

[kenn9530]

FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

New World isnt even launched yet so obviously noone is going to be watching a game that is not available, also twitch numbers are not a representation of how alive a game is, people watch thier favourite streamers regardless of the game they play, FF14 and WoW are very similar games and both have areas where they do better at, but the current fantasy MMO genre needs a new game with more interesting gameplay.

People watch streamers because they are bored and cant muster the motivation to actually play the game.

[TheRevenantHero]

Walk around and do fates forever or do eureka and walk around and do... more fates.

People are going to get past the "new shiny" phase of FF14 and realize not only is there less to do but the actual "engagement" in the game ie endgame (raids/pvp/ and again irrelevant dungeons, even with the sync) is far below that of wow.

People complain of no content in wow, try 1 lfr wing for 6 MONTHS, then one heroic wing for 6 MONTHS, then a dungeon for 6 MONTHS, then 1 mythic fight for 6 MONTHS.

Say what you want about wow and defend ff14 all you want, but the game has a severe lack of actual content once you are past the slog that is msq and unlocking everything.

1 patch in wow = an entire endgame of an expansion of ff14.

Man. I've been playing since March. When's the new shiny supposed to end huh? At least the content is actually fun and engaging. At least leveling doesn't feel terrible like it does in WoW. At least the devs actually give a shit. At least the community isn't filled toxic, elitist jerks that ruin any kind of group activity.

In short, FF14 definitely isn't going to stop being the "new shiny". You're just saying that because it's becoming more successful than WoW.

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FFXIV has already fallen off. Nobody is even watching it when Asmongold isn't streaming. New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

Using Twitch streamers as a metric for how popular a game is is pretty asinine

[Ryzeth]

I don't understand the whole wow killer mind-set, at the end of the day why can't people just enjoy games for what they are.

This is not to say your a person with a wow killer mind-set by the way just in general I don't understand why people have to always compare games.

I'm not, but half the people in this thread clearly are. They can't fathom the idea that people enjoy a game that they don't, and will spend every waking minute talking badly about it.

People are far too preoccupied caring about what other people play.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yes and Wow has been going since 2004 and the highest number of players achieved by every other MMO is the lowest of what WOW has achieved.
If your enjoying the game please go have fun.

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Not going to argue about the accuracy of the numbers, we are talking about publicly traded companies here so if they release information they might try to sugarcoat it (best selling XXX by standard XX) but you can't lie about hard numbers themselves.

And yes, certain games have a clear established playerbase and a game like Eve Online will probably outlast WOW mostly because the people playing it will probably keep on playing the game for another decade or so.
The same with Runescape, I would not be surprised if some random Twitch streamer suddenly starts playing runescape and the game gets populaire yet regardless the surge in players will never last because that's the nature of things.

What both games have in common (and why they will outlast WoW) is that the people who are currently playing the game aren't following a hype and the developer is making enough money to keep supporting the game and bring out new content,

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People have been complaining about WoW being ruined by XYZ reason since TBC.
Every single change since the original release in 2004 has "ruined the game". Arena's ruined the game, pvp gear ruined the game, flying mounts ruined the game, smaller raids ruined the game and battlegrounds ruined the game.

Is it so hard to imagine that people just outgrew WoW? I haven't really touched WOW in years at this point (little bit early during this expansion) but that's mostly on me, the game still feels the exact same game as during WOTLK yet I can't be bothered anymore in spending my evenings raiding or do whatever to get a new items.

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

[Swnem]

Yes and Wow has been going since 2004 and the highest number of players achieved by every other MMO is the lowest of what WOW has achieved.
If your enjoying the game please go have fun.

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Not going to argue about the accuracy of the numbers, we are talking about publicly traded companies here so if they release information they might try to sugarcoat it (best selling XXX by standard XX) but you can't lie about hard numbers themselves.

And yes, certain games have a clear established playerbase and a game like Eve Online will probably outlast WOW mostly because the people playing it will probably keep on playing the game for another decade or so.
The same with Runescape, I would not be surprised if some random Twitch streamer suddenly starts playing runescape and the game gets populaire yet regardless the surge in players will never last because that's the nature of things.

What both games have in common (and why they will outlast WoW) is that the people who are currently playing the game aren't following a hype and the developer is making enough money to keep supporting the game and bring out new content,

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People have been complaining about WoW being ruined by XYZ reason since TBC.
Every single change since the original release in 2004 has "ruined the game". Arena's ruined the game, pvp gear ruined the game, flying mounts ruined the game, smaller raids ruined the game and battlegrounds ruined the game.

Is it so hard to imagine that people just outgrew WoW? I haven't really touched WOW in years at this point (little bit early during this expansion) but that's mostly on me, the game still feels the exact same game as during WOTLK yet I can't be bothered anymore in spending my evenings raiding or do whatever to get a new items.

That is once again the copium talking. The game was growing in popularity then. Now, it is doing the opposite. So, yes, something is wrong now that wasn't back then.

You don't "outgrow" a game. That is a juvenile thing to say. You either enjoy a game or not. But the game that existed in TBC and now are vastly different. That is why we got classic. I reject your assertions. If people were just "growing" out of interest, and i'm sure a good number are, many were in the forums clamoring for changes. That means they still care.
Heck, despite what you say, here you are still engaging with the game on the forums. You are not so "outgrown" as you think. Actually, if you have not played the game for years, how on earth do you know what it's been through? It's one thing to read it on forums and another to actually have to deal with it in-game for years. So, sure, i can see you are less affected by what was done to it and it's easier to cope with.

Also, i guess you did not experience the dramatic loss of population. Also, the surge in population for FF is a thing. People still care about mmo's. This is not just people losing interest. It's that the game is bad. People want a good game. That simple.

[fatgunn]

I've seen people throw the phrase "competition will improve the game!" around a lot, but I'm personally not seeing it. Other games have been putting WoW to shame in various departments for years now, but Blizzard has never gotten off their ass and implemented their own versions to compete. For instance, so many other MMOs have housing systems and yet WoW never bothered. We'll see if 10.0 is the wakeup call but I doubt it.



This is not the same situation. These are completely different circumstances.

First, WoW is no longer the king it used to be. People checked out Warhammer and Wildstar and SWTOR and Rift for a time, but those games weren't as good as WoW. WoW had 12 million subscribers for a reason. And there is a reason why WoW barely has 2 million subscribers or less today. To say that WoW is just as appealing to people today as it was 10 years ago is denial.

Second, FFXIV is not a new MMO launching. FFXIV has been out for several years. FFXIV's recent rise in popularity is not people getting hyped for a fad, but people waking up and realizing that there is a good alternative replacement. If WoW was still good enough to have 12 million subscribers and FFXIV was launching today, it'd just be the same story as all of the other supposed "WoW killers" that came before. Clearly that is not the case.

The second part here is the exact answer to the first. Those other games weren't really competition to WoW, FF14 is.

[Soikona]

After the first squish we've gotten what, 3 bad expansions and one decent one? Plus squishes are anti-mmorpg progression, when they start doing that it shows they stopped caring about your character growing from expansion to expansion.

Hold up, you see stat squash as a direct influencing factor of what makes an expansion bad?

[Pretorian]

...New World seems to be DoA as well. What's next?

New World is not out yet... can we give it a couple of months before calling it dead on arrival...?!
Just because it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean other people won't like it.

These ridiculous statements irritate me... some people are just sheep nowadays...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

Where did you get the 46 million? They reported 100m In mop.

[kenn9530]

The highest numbers WoW has ever had was 46 million back in 2017. It has less than half that now. FFXIV hit 22 million users in April and has continued to grow since.

The numbers we get from blizzard are monthly active users across all blizz games not just WoW, and according to how they measure MAU if a player logged into retail, classic and TBC classic they would be counted as 3 users since they are 3 seperate games.

FF14 numbers are at least from one game but 22 million users wont be seperate players.

Where did you get the 46 million? They reported 100m In mop.

He was referring to monthly active users that also include all blizzard games, total accounts made however doesnt mean all that much

After the first squish we've gotten what, 3 bad expansions and one decent one? Plus squishes are anti-mmorpg progression, when they start doing that it shows they stopped caring about your character growing from expansion to expansion.

You dont lose anything in a stat squish and thats a simple fact, your char is not weaker and in most cases the char is actually stronger than before.

When numbers get out of hand it becomes much more difficult to balance a game, its actually a good thing to keep numbers low, and does not affect the player at all, size of the numbers means nothing, math is just there to make the game work. Your char never loses power just because of a squish.