If the buck is passed to FFXIV...

[Swnem]

Yeah, they hype doesnt last long - We know who's the king, and will remain the king. FOR THE HORDE!

Lol and you believe him just like that?

TWITCH:

WoW: 24k viewers
FFXIV: 17k viewers

Lets not forget Asmon took a week off in the last month as well.

https://sullygnome.com/games/30/watched

But, of course, viewers and players are very different things.

Do us a favor. Don't blindly believe numbers someone throws without a source, even if you really want to believe them.
I do believe my source will update each day or week.

Also, sorry to break your heart but FF has an expansion coming out soon. It is far from ended.

[Kalocy Jim]

Not that I have any doubts about the game's quality or the developers' integrity, but that doesn't change the fact that the same gamers who complained about WoW are going to complain about Final Fantasy, right?

SquareEnix certainly has my confidence, but so did Blizzard for a very long time. The pressure of being top dog is substantial and indeed "the grass is always greener" on the other side.

(inb4 a slow decay of FFXIV optimism breaks down the community over the years)

But what do you think? Is FFXIV, for whatever reason, going to avoid trending downwards for an incredible amount of time like WoW? Bonus points if you explain what trajectory you see the MMO genre going in as a whole, considering the current landscape.

FFXIV is not "top dog". The moment new content for WoW is released, a resurgence of players comes flocking back to WoW.. they always do.

[Xorzor]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Perscilal...66071811981315

Nah, you just don't pay attention because Blizzard bad, Square Enix good.

Well that's disappointing (your Twitter link). I guess there is no hope then, for anyone. Now I'm wondering how Digital Extremes (the ones who make Warframe) treats their people.

FFXIV is not "top dog". The moment new content for WoW is released, a resurgence of players comes flocking back to WoW.. they always do.

As inevitable as that is, they (Blizz) should get to it. Seems patch 9.1 has gone on long enough.

[Swnem]

FFXIV is not "top dog". The moment new content for WoW is released, a resurgence of players comes flocking back to WoW.. they always do.

Are you seriously saying you think people will flock back to the game for more shadowlands?!

How did that work with 9.1?

The copium is real.

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Not only do you know the sub numbers of both games you also know the viewing habits of twitch viewers and WHY they watch what they do. Damn, your services must be in high demand for analytics companies.

You just cannot accept that WoW still might be ahead of FFXIV can you?

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I mean some of that content you listed in FF is fine and all but it isn't exactly compelling content to level a 10th job to the cap or level all the professions. Professions got pretty dull with a skill revamp and basically can be done with macros now (at least when I last played the game). Each game has a lot of 'things to do' but pet battles or card games or even professions might not be what people are after. Who knows really.

Honestly, even though i maxed out all professions, i did not do much with them. I'm more of a combat player than a crafter, but i do know there is lots to do with it. Skysteel tools are the epic questlines for crafter relic weapons. There was ishgard restoration and crafters are actually useful in FF cause they can make some of the best gear.

Macros will always be an option,but i don't believe they will always give you the best result as there is randomness to the crafting system.
Also, i don't think it got dull at all. The revamp was for the better.
This reminded me they revamped fishing and added ocean fishing, something i haven't even tried myself.

Regardless, it's there, it's deep and for those that like it, it's good content for sure.

I mean, i didn't say anything about leveling every job, but that is something i was happy to achieve.
There is plenty of different things to do, not just the few i mentioned.

That is the thing i'm saying though. It is up to you what you want to do, or not. If there isn't content you want to do, it's ok to have a break and be happy with what you enjoyed and come back when there is more.
As i said, nowhere does it say you need to play the game everyday. You should play it when you feel like it.

[starstationprofm]

ff14 is the new shiny toy. An MMO with years of content.

But once they finish said content in a few months, gamers will realise that waiting months on end for a questline you finish in a day isn't worth the sub.

This is why story content in MMOs doesn't work and why Blizzard doesn't really focus on it.

[Orange Joe]

Doesn't need to. WoW did that itself.

Same statement I've heard since 2009.

[Kyanion]

Are you seriously saying you think people will flock back to the game for more shadowlands?!

How did that work with 9.1?

The copium is real.

People flock back for damn near every patch and we all know they do.

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That is the thing i'm saying though. It is up to you what you want to do, or not. If there isn't content you want to do, it's ok to have a break and be happy with what you enjoyed and come back when there is more.
As i said, nowhere does it say you need to play the game everyday. You should play it when you feel like it.

You know this can apply to WoW too, right? Why you think people come back on big patches? "Copium" as you put it?

[Swnem]

Same statement I've heard since 2009.

Lol lies. You only heard it this year.

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People flock back for damn near every patch and we all know they do.

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You know this can apply to WoW too, right? Why you think people come back on big patches? "Copium" as you put it?

What numbers are we talking about? Do some people come back? Sure. But, it's not expansion launch levels, not even close.
You do know people are sick of Shadowlands, right? There is a difference between stopping after a good experience and stopping cause the game sucks.

I mean when you need a content release to be "the king" again, that means you are not under normal circunstances. What makes you think the tourists will stick around this time? King for 2 weeks when launching new content? Cope.

You really don't understand why people left WoW in droves and if you think a new patch is all that's needed to bring them back... oh how wrong you are.

[Dhrizzle]

Lol lies. You only heard it this year.

[Sialina]

During the recent, as in like two days ago I think, Live Letter for FF14 they said they had to adjust potency numbers because damage was inflating too high in their formula and that was causing issues. It just has to do with how the games are put together behind the scenes. Spaghetti code ect ect. We don't know anything about that stuff except what they've told us, and all I've said is stuff they've directly said. You can sit here and disagree with them on why this stuff is happening, but you won't really get far.

Yes I will, the only reason this can happen is that they fill up the integer number, there is no other way for damage to get "too high". This can be boss health as well, go youtube integer numbers and why they go negative, watch a couple of videos and you will see that I'm correct here.

[Swnem]

Is that supposed to say anything? The concept of "killing WoW" is pretty fluid. It is easy to prove just by the fact the game is now at a fraction of it's popularity. With a big wave of players leaving in disgust this expansion and populating a rival mmo selling it out and creating huge login queues.
Keep trying to equate the situation now to someone that is upset Shaman's and Paladins went cross faction. If it helps you cope.

[Jazzhands]

Yes I will, the only reason this can happen is that they fill up the integer number, there is no other way for damage to get "too high". This can be boss health as well, go youtube integer numbers and why they go negative, watch a couple of videos and you will see that I'm correct here.

Yeah, nah. I really don't care, because all I'm doing is passing on what I've been told by the people who work on these games. These people know what they're doing, I don't, that's why the only things I say on the matter are info they've given, and it's also why I'm going to completely ignore some random person on the internet.

[Dhrizzle]

Is that supposed to say anything? The concept of "killing WoW" is pretty fluid. It is easy to prove just by the fact the game is now at a fraction of it's popularity. With a big wave of players leaving in disgust this expansion and populating a rival mmo selling it out and creating huge login queues.
Keep trying to equate the situation now to someone that is upset Shaman's and Paladins went cross faction. If it helps you cope.

It's saying that those of us who have played WoW for a long time have heard "only Blizzard can kill WoW" many times before, usually just after WaR/AoC/RIFT/GW2/MMO-de-jour has failed to kill it.

BTW which YouTuber or streamer has been going on about "cope" recently? You can barely move on this forum without people regurgitating the word.

[mickybrighteyes]

Is that supposed to say anything? The concept of "killing WoW" is pretty fluid. It is easy to prove just by the fact the game is now at a fraction of it's popularity. With a big wave of players leaving in disgust this expansion and populating a rival mmo selling it out and creating huge login queues.
Keep trying to equate the situation now to someone that is upset Shaman's and Paladins went cross faction. If it helps you cope.

People have been saying wow will die for over a decade. Vaarious things people said that would kill wow:

Flying
Belfadin/dranny shammy
death knights
death knight runes.... (i think this one is still somewhere around here)
LFG tool (the automatic one)
dual specc...
artifacts
the story... multiple times... and I for one think this has done more damage than bad balance issues


Point is that the game HAS been dying but the statement people seemed to assert is that something will revert wow into the same state as SW:G with closed servers and only run on private servers or something... which just isn't going to happen. What will happen is people will age out or be driven away because of one reason or another and move somewhere else.

IMO blizz has managed to piss off enough people with SL at least to get people to ignore a couple patches while they scramble to work on the positive changes people said would make sense back in december.


edit:

a lot of angry players need to get out and see that other games DO in fact exist. WoW isn't the only game out there with instanced group content with weekly lockouts (which is sadly the only thing WoW seems to do right "correctly" atm)

[Orange Joe]

Lol lies. You only heard it this year.

Yeah no...


First it was server transfers. Then faction transfers. Then the store. Then the sparkle pony. Reepeat ad-nauseam.

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It's saying that those of us who have played WoW for a long time have heard "only Blizzard can kill WoW" many times before, usually just after WaR/AoC/RIFT/GW2/MMO-de-jour has failed to kill it.

BTW which YouTuber or streamer has been going on about "cope" recently? You can barely move on this forum without people regurgitating the word.

I've seen it come from GTAV roleplayers. and Amigops(?) Sykunno, Valkyrea, and so on. Mostly in the form of saying "huffing copium"

[Gimlix]

Believe what you want.

I can log into any FF server and it's packed in towns, in the gold saucer, in bozja. Delubrum reginae raid in gangos (48man) pops queue in 2 minutes.
Oh and by packed i mean in the order of 50+ players.

Meanwhile in korthia there are like 10-15 players doing rares, in Oribos 10-20. LFR 30m to 1 hour queue.

It funny to say things if you dont actually play both games and see.

I can't say conclusively cause i don't have official numbers but the in-game experience is pretty telling.

Let us compare how big WoW is in size, how much content there is how divided the player base is, how many servers does FF and how many World of Warcraft?
There is a reason WoW hold records and still hold those today. It basically created the MMORPG genre and it will take it with it.

In-game experience, as i said before. that is impossible to decide.

My server alone has standard nearly 100 people in goldshire, now i imagine 90% server swap into eachother, i bet if we didnt had phasing then each city hub or town hub will have easily over 1000 people there. (Can FF pull that off?)

Even if we base info off websites that have no clue at all if their stats are true, we still see that FF has like 2.2M active players and WoW is at 3.5M (Even though WoW is at its worst ever... still 1Mill far ahead of FF)

Shows you who the real king is.

[Kyanion]

What numbers are we talking about? Do some people come back? Sure. But, it's not expansion launch levels, not even close.
You do know people are sick of Shadowlands, right? There is a difference between stopping after a good experience and stopping cause the game sucks.

I mean when you need a content release to be "the king" again, that means you are not under normal circunstances. What makes you think the tourists will stick around this time? King for 2 weeks when launching new content? Cope.

You really don't understand why people left WoW in droves and if you think a new patch is all that's needed to bring them back... oh how wrong you are.

Ah yes the 'people left in droves' 'wow is dying' narrative, my favorite. You have no proof WoW has been overtaken by FF and you can only speculate on it. People come back for every patch, that is a fact reflected in information Blizz has put out. Many players are cyclical patch players now and guess what happens when the next patch comes out. Oh yeah, people will come back and play it for a time.

I love the use of 'cope' as you then butcher how the term is even intended to be used. I'm not the one trying to make bullshit claims and jump through hoops to try and push a false narrative.

[KrayZ33]

Believe what you want.

I can log into any FF server and it's packed in towns, in the gold saucer, in bozja. Delubrum reginae raid in gangos (48man) pops queue in 2 minutes.
Oh and by packed i mean in the order of 50+ players.

Meanwhile in korthia there are like 10-15 players doing rares, in Oribos 10-20. LFR 30m to 1 hour queue.

It funny to say things if you dont actually play both games and see.

I can't say conclusively cause i don't have official numbers but the in-game experience is pretty telling.

The only thing you can conclude from this is how reliant WoW is on phasing and how it ruins your experience (mine as well btw)
I mean... Korthia is fucking empty most of the time, yes.
But I can go to the new weekly world boss at any time of the day and find a full raid of 40 players in like 3 seconds.
At least I never had to actually "search" for that. I go there whenever I want - and 1 second later, I'm in a full raid.

A weekly thing - you can do once per character.

So it's not like there aren't a ton of players always playing and doing stuff.

[Eli85]

Let us compare how big WoW is in size, how much content there is how divided the player base is, how many servers does FF and how many World of Warcraft?
There is a reason WoW hold records and still hold those today. It basically created the MMORPG genre and it will take it with it.

In-game experience, as i said before. that is impossible to decide.

My server alone has standard nearly 100 people in goldshire, now i imagine 90% server swap into eachother, i bet if we didnt had phasing then each city hub or town hub will have easily over 1000 people there. (Can FF pull that off?)

Even if we base info off websites that have no clue at all if their stats are true, we still see that FF has like 2.2M active players and WoW is at 3.5M (Even though WoW is at its worst ever... still 1Mill far ahead of FF)

Shows you who the real king is.

Bolded is nothing but a completely inaccurate, history re-writing nonsense. The MMORPG genre existed long before World of WarCraft. What World of WarCraft did was refine and modernize the genre for mass audience appeal, but it did not "basically create it." If you want to be technical and very specific, the MMORPG genre dates back to MUDs, as the very first offerings took a lot of inspiration from that, like Ultima Online and EverQuest.

World of WarCraft is certainly the most successful MMORPG, and despite everything else, is still the king of the genre. But basically creating the genre? It did not do that, at all.

[Kyanion]

BTW which YouTuber or streamer has been going on about "cope" recently? You can barely move on this forum without people regurgitating the word.

Right? It is like buzzword central lately. 'Cope' 'Pulling the Ripcord'. People can't think for themselves anymore.