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  1. #1

    Is it possible the Guardian of Frostmourne was a rogue Mawsworn

    I mean look at this


    Edit: I can only find a picture of The Guardian that I can use, I can't find anything for the proper Mawsworn model I want to use
    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=176953/m...ities;mode:lfr
    plus some of the weapons from Santum of Domination somewhat resemble the mace and shield The Guardian wielded
    Last edited by Psykho; 2021-09-20 at 02:49 AM.

  2. #2
    It makes sense, that model is from warcraft reforged or from the original?.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piamonte View Post
    It makes sense, that model is from warcraft reforged or from the original?.
    This model is from original.
    .

  4. #4


    this is the hearthstone art. id say its pretty close



    heres better of the mob you linked to. theres a couple of different version
    Last edited by BossManRoth; 2021-09-20 at 05:49 AM.

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  5. #5
    Guess the only question would be if The Guardian truly is a Rogue Mawsworn, how was he able to rebel? did spending time on Azeroth erode his faith in the Jailor, also he certianly didn't seem like a bad guy, certainly not someone you would expect to go to the Maw

    It's also possible he might play a role in the future if this turns out to be true, since being a being of death probably means he can only be killed in the Shadowlands, sort of like Demons with the Twisting Nether, I mean imagine Jaina, Uther, and the Guardian all teaming up to retrieve Arthas' soul if it's revealed Zovaal is using it for something (Kingsmourne possibly)

  6. #6
    It would make sense that if the Jailer planted a trap designed specifically for Arthas that you would not want some random Taunka or Tuskarr wandering into the cave and walking out with the prize. You'd want something guarding it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    It would make sense that if the Jailer planted a trap designed specifically for Arthas that you would not want some random Taunka or Tuskarr wandering into the cave and walking out with the prize. You'd want something guarding it.
    "TaaaaaAaake the blaaaadeeee....."

    "VISIT AGAIN WHEN YOU CAN"

  8. #8
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons

  9. #9
    It is not possible. Because WC3:TFT lore we had, was actually original lore. And at that time, there was no "Sh!tlands". They came up with this fan-fan-fanfiction few years ago. With Jailer and other stuff... Pls, don't desecrate WC3 lore by connecting to ANYTHING post-MOP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons
    couldn't agree more with you, mate.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons
    The Jailer wasn't behind the Legion. His forces infiltrated and manipulated the Legion.

    Intelligence organizations exist for every major country in the world. All (to some extent) doing a bit of manipulation & infiltration of other countries. It doesn't mean they are "behind" that country. They are just *an* influence.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons
    It kind of reminds me of the whole Amon thing with Starcraft 2.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons
    This is why re-forged should've been what they intended it to be. A "revamp" of the story to make it fall in line with modern day wow lore. Easily could've been done with some extra campaigns missions / cinematics. While leaving alone the OG warcraft 3 client so you can go back and play that game which still held up to this day ( graphics wise ). I believe that was the intent with reforged to "justify" the changes they have made to the lore, but even blizzard fucked that up.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    No.

    All this retcon jailer bullshit should be brushed under a rug and never spoken about again.

    They took a giant turd on the WC3 storyline by having the jailer be behind it all. The jailer is behind the Legion. The jailer is behind the Scourge. God this lore is absolute garbage, take us back to slaying dragons
    Sadly for you, it's canon and therefore we can theorycraft all we want. I honestly don't think the story is that bad, sure except Sylvanas saying "I will never serve", yeah, that was dumb, but other than that death its a pretty fun topic to talk about.

    Also, creating believable villain is hard. Specially in a slow phased history content that is an mmo. Their underpaid writers are doing what they can.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooginava182 View Post
    This is why re-forged should've been what they intended it to be. A "revamp" of the story to make it fall in line with modern day wow lore. Easily could've been done with some extra campaigns missions / cinematics. While leaving alone the OG warcraft 3 client so you can go back and play that game which still held up to this day ( graphics wise ). I believe that was the intent with reforged to "justify" the changes they have made to the lore, but even blizzard fucked that up.
    The worst part is that original WC3 is a far superior game in basically every aspect, and they completely fucked it by basically replacing it with that piece of shit reforged.

    This is why I am so opposed to going back and remastering classics. It's not the same company that made these memorable games. They are just trading on the goodwill banked from the glory days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    Sadly for you, it's canon and therefore we can theorycraft all we want. I honestly don't think the story is that bad, sure except Sylvanas saying "I will never serve", yeah, that was dumb, but other than that death its a pretty fun topic to talk about.

    Also, creating believable villain is hard. Specially in a slow phased history content that is an mmo. Their underpaid writers are doing what they can.
    Meh, its not my bottom line that suffers long term because of very poor decisions.

    Also find me evidence that the writing team is underpaid. As far as I am aware, employees are free to negotiate for better pay, or look for another job in the industry if they are unsatisfied with the current working situation.

  15. #15
    The Guardian is one of those bits that didn't make much sense in the OG game at all and has continued to be poorly explained since. Who is he? Why is he there? Frostmourne isn't an ancient weapon and this place a sacred cavern of some kind that merits some magical guardian, it's a setup and the sword's been there for a few years at most. Is the Revenant a plant who's only warning Arthas away as a form of reverse psychology? The pedestal warning of a curse is also pretty nonsensical since the whole thing was placed by Ner'zhul deliberately and leaving that bit out would make it a bit easier. Luckily it doesn't really matter to the narrative but it's still a bit weird.

    That said, this particular solution doesn't really help solve this plot problem. Sure, the visual design is similar, but the Mawsworn are stuck in the Maw and even if the Blue Man ultimately didn't want Arthas to get the sword since he was unhappy with Ner'zhul's usurpation (and Ner'zhul himself), he neither had any way of knowing this nor a way to get one of his agents out of the Maw to do so. The idea that the Guardian was planted by Ner'zhul to create a false sense of danger is the most plausible solution, much like the rumors of the sword itself were planted to get Muradin's attention, if still kind of naff.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-09-22 at 06:21 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  16. #16
    Given that Frostmourne was taken by the Legion, "given" to Ner'zhul, and the orc thrust it out of the Frozen Throne to find Arthas, it doesn't seem likely that the guardian was working directly for the Jailer (we do know Ner'zhul was a failure to the Jailer, though we don't know the details of what caused this, so it is possible at the time this was somehow part of the Jailer's plans, though not likely given it led to Mal'ganis' death). Revenants are elemental in nature and somewhat affiliated with the Old Gods, so it's possible that the Guardian was sent by Yogg-Saron to prevent the forces of Death from gaining more power. This aligns with the theory that the stone in the cavern is saronite.

  17. #17
    Actually, there's another take I just came up with.

    If you want to square the Guardian's design, actions and the pedestal all in one with the new lore, you could fanwank that they were actually put there deliberately by the Primus as a form of sabotage. We know he made the sword and the pedestal and that the Mawsworn were suits of his design as well. It could easily be that he got forced into making all of them for the Dreadlords, but made them a package deal and made sure to place the Guardian and the warning on the platform in there to further try and make sure Frostmourne didn't fall into anyone's hands. This solves why they're counterproductive to Ner'zhul and the Dreadlords' goals and why he looks like this.

    I like @Aresk's version as well.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
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    if Ner'zhul shot out the Frostmourne from his Frozen Throne and Mal'ganis intended to bring Arthas right straight to the Frostmourne, how did the Guardian even come across it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    The worst part is that original WC3 is a far superior game in basically every aspect, and they completely fucked it by basically replacing it with that piece of shit reforged.

    This is why I am so opposed to going back and remastering classics. It's not the same company that made these memorable games. They are just trading on the goodwill banked from the glory days.
    conspiracy theory: Blizzard rushed Reforged despite warnings not to, to simply to advance their new EULA to prevent another DotA moment considering that Legion TD, Element TD, and Warlock also got their own standalone games in Steam
    Last edited by Ardenaso; 2021-09-22 at 09:16 PM.
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yooginava182 View Post
    I believe that was the intent with reforged to "justify" the changes they have made to the lore, but even blizzard fucked that up.
    You just made up a scenario to get mad at them about? lmao.

    Ok.

  20. #20
    is it possible? sure. intentional? hell no

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