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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    These 3 expansions are the most negatively critiqued expansions I've seen in my 10 years of playing the game. Cataclysm wasn't even this badly critiqued. However, I'd want to know from the community here which is the best or "most enjoyable" of these 3: Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands, or Warlords of Draenor.


    WoD:
    Pros: New character models, questing revamp, great raids and some of the best music of the expansions. Best and most viewed opening cinematic of all time.
    Cons: Rushed and incomplete expansion. Barely any content outside of raiding and arenas. Garrisons and the shitpyard. Over hyped to sell a terrible product. 1 patch expansion.

    BFA:
    Pros: Great cinematics. Good leveling stories for both factions. Allied races. Great in game story-telling. 2nd most viewed and 2nd best opening cinematic of all time.
    Cons: Too many stories all going on at once. Systems on top of 5000 other systems. Most grindy expansion of all time. Characters making weird 180's and taking odd directions [I.e: Sylvanas, Anduin, Saurfang, Jaina, Thrall]

    Shadowlands:
    Pros: Most casual friendly of the three. Character customization. Outstanding PvE content. Best selling expansion of all time.
    Cons: Borrowed Power. Covenants & RIPChord. Confusing story and controversial story directions. Long patches due to in company drama and COVID-19. Expansion becomes 1 year old with only 1 full patch released. Devs fighting with the players. Quickest expansion to lose the most players. Zovaal is Lucifer and Thanos copy-paste.



    Which is or was the most enjoyable for you out of these 3?

    I'm going to say..? Shadowlands. What about you?
    Shadowlands, if only for the art and characters.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    WoD. Lacked content, but the content it had was good, & gameplay was much better than the other two expansions. Also required a lot less grinding, which is a huge win in my books.

    SL second & BFA far behind.
    I second this, I didn't really raid in WoD, or any expansion after WoTLK, however, I think PvP was much better in WoD than SL and BFA. Just my opinion, but at least doing dmg to someone in WoD they actually took dmg. I feel like in BFA and SL everyone has soo many absorbs and heals that no one ever takes dmg. I just liked how classes played better back then.

  3. #283
    The Patient Zendhal The Black's Avatar
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    WoD had actually a lot of content...

    It just wasn't included in the expansion itself... but in older expansions

    I aquired more transmogs in WoD than in any other expansion on my characters.

    I just logged 3 days on my main for the raid (arms/fury warrior, worst class design in the entire history of wow in WoD) and rest of the time I just spent on alts floofing around...

    oh and challenge mode? you mean the one I did in one day and then forgot it ever existed? yea... 10/10 content

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I find it fascinating how players just suddenly one day switched on a dime from Legion being a horrible bug-ridden expansion filled with grind and pointless busywork to declaring it truly great.

    Legiondaries were a plague on the game, and it took most of its lifespan until it got even close to being fixed. Alts were probably about as bad as they were ever going to be, only held up by the promise of 12 different campaigns and a unique mount.
    The grind was immense, and was further something which hamstrung not just alts, but off-specs. The only reason we don't say it is what truly killed off-specs as a concept in Legion is that the issue of Legiondaries was infinitely worse.
    Spreading content out on every single individual class meant that most of the campaigns ended up being filler, and not to mention heavily reliant on mission table timegates.
    7.2 was probably one of the most pitiful excuses for a patch we have had other than 6.1. The epic questline leading up to killing Kil'jaeden was comprised of a grand total of 2 unique quests per class, and a whole bunch of weekly quests amounting to busywork like finding 10 chests or killing 100 demons.

    You wouldnt believe how full of vitriol the playerbase was towards Legion while it was current. It's saving grace was really only it's patch cadence being pretty close to perfect, as well as the story leaning heavily into just being cool rather than being deep, and even that led to some awful grinding of gears when you got to stuff like Illidan never meeting with Malfurion of Tyrande despite being literally on the same island fighting the same enemies.


    Legion is the example I will always give of why an expansion will never be judged fairly while it is current. Because noone seemed interested in considering how Suramar was a wonder of a zone, all they wanted to discuss was how shit the experience was to play.

    No expansion will ever be given a fair shake while it is current. It takes at least being able to judge it in its entirety to compare and contrast it to other expansions.
    You're not wrong, but the end result was still markedly great in several aspects. You could pvp easily and without hassle on mains or alts, and pve wasnt neccessary to excel there. Healer regen no longer rising with spirit meant for the first time, dot-and-rot style gameplay was truly valuable, and affliction could finally feel like its fantasy promised since classic. (In mop affliction had amazing design but healers mana regen meant you'd almost never kill through rot dmg and have to rely on cc/burst). Legion was the funnest i ever had arenaing despite not having the absolute peak of class design.

    M+ was an innovative and generally well liked addition to the game that made dungeons relevant again and gave you fun easily accessible group content instead of waiting for 30+ minutes in raid queues.

    Ye, Legiondaries were shit that for some reason they decided should only be fixed in the last patch, and ye the AP grind was annoying, but the expac had its solid points that gave you actually fun stuff to do for long streches of time, even more then some of its awesome predeccesors...

    ...and then we got BFA and SL.

  5. #285
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    This. People just tend to forget the bad stuff, that's why [current xpac] is always the worst of all time.
    Yeah, while a fair bit of wods content was amazing (the raids) people tend to go "well the content it did have was amazing" forgetting that a lot of it wasnt, it was literally raid or die, with only 1 major patch, and outside of "ok" pvp, and the raids, you had the horrid garrisons and shipyard and thats it...

    Wod was also by far the least amount of content, like dear fucking lord. longest expansion yet, longest drought yet, least amount of patches yet, funnily even though 1 of its "major patches" was not major at all, it was a .5 patch.

    wod was the worst at literally eveything, the only saving grace being the leveling was fun first time through, and that blackrock and hellfire were great raids.

    but as usual people have that rose tintend glasses and forget farming the same bosses for over a year, almost a year and a half.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zendhal The Black View Post
    WoD had actually a lot of content...

    It just wasn't included in the expansion itself... but in older expansions

    I aquired more transmogs in WoD than in any other expansion on my characters.

    I just logged 3 days on my main for the raid (arms/fury warrior, worst class design in the entire history of wow in WoD) and rest of the time I just spent on alts floofing around...

    oh and challenge mode? you mean the one I did in one day and then forgot it ever existed? yea... 10/10 content
    Reminder, transmog was not till legion. that is when we got the transmog thing, before that you had to actually keep the gear in your banks, so you cant even priase wod for that.

  6. #286
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    These 3 expansions are the most negatively critiqued expansions I've seen in my 10 years of playing the game. Cataclysm wasn't even this badly critiqued. However, I'd want to know from the community here which is the best or "most enjoyable" of these 3: Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands, or Warlords of Draenor.


    WoD:
    Pros: New character models, questing revamp, great raids and some of the best music of the expansions. Best and most viewed opening cinematic of all time.
    Cons: Rushed and incomplete expansion. Barely any content outside of raiding and arenas. Garrisons and the shitpyard. Over hyped to sell a terrible product. 1 patch expansion.

    BFA:
    Pros: Great cinematics. Good leveling stories for both factions. Allied races. Great in game story-telling. 2nd most viewed and 2nd best opening cinematic of all time.
    Cons: Too many stories all going on at once. Systems on top of 5000 other systems. Most grindy expansion of all time. Characters making weird 180's and taking odd directions [I.e: Sylvanas, Anduin, Saurfang, Jaina, Thrall]

    Shadowlands:
    Pros: Most casual friendly of the three. Character customization. Outstanding PvE content. Best selling expansion of all time.
    Cons: Borrowed Power. Covenants & RIPChord. Confusing story and controversial story directions. Long patches due to in company drama and COVID-19. Expansion becomes 1 year old with only 1 full patch released. Devs fighting with the players. Quickest expansion to lose the most players. Zovaal is Lucifer and Thanos copy-paste.



    Which is or was the most enjoyable for you out of these 3?

    I'm going to say..? Shadowlands. What about you?
    Going with BFa. Though WoD had very slick leveling i reeeeeeally dislike the theme. Orcs and time traveling. Horrible.

    Bfa had really great casual content, a very nice mid-expansion patch with Azshara and enough content over the whole expansion. The music was supreme, the alliance zones are one of the best zones ever done in WoW. But yeah, azerite system was indeed very bad.
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  7. #287
    Mechagnome Mr. Smith's Avatar
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    I enjoyed WoD the most: I enjoyed what little content that WoD had, I only stopped playing because, well, there was so little content. Whereas the reason I stopped playing BfA and SL quickly was that, despite there being plenty of content, I actively despised most of it.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Smith View Post
    I enjoyed WoD the most: I enjoyed what little content that WoD had, I only stopped playing because, well, there was so little content. Whereas the reason I stopped playing BfA and SL quickly was that, despite there being plenty of content, I actively despised most of it.
    This is the key point. It was quite apparent from the beginning that WoD wasn't going to be exactly overflowing with content, but I didn't really matter because my favourite classes had great gameplay, raids were top notch (probably topping everything that came later except maybe Nighthold ) and I didn't have to go through hoops and loops in order to play the good bits of the game at a decent level. As a matter of fact, I never unsubbed during WoD, drought and all, whereas I couldn't stand the #$&%show that was Azerite at the beginning, or the entirety of Systemlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Don't lie.
    I'm not lying. BFA is the worst expansion they've ever released thus far. Every patch added something to make it worse than better. The most redeeming factor of BFA would be the BOD raid and allied races.. that's about it.

  10. #290
    I will never understand anyone who could say WoD was better.

    WoD was a hot mess.

    BFA at least had good cinematics, some interesting twists, and brought us allied races which really helped with the monotony of leveling.

  11. #291
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    I'm not lying. BFA is the worst expansion they've ever released thus far. Every patch added something to make it worse than better. The most redeeming factor of BFA would be the BOD raid and allied races.. that's about it.
    About having the most content. That's not true. The rest? 100% accurate.

  12. #292
    WoD might have lacked some content in the long run, and had the focus on the Garrison... but aside from that I honestly liked it the most from the three.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticDreamer View Post
    I will never understand anyone who could say WoD was better.

    WoD was a hot mess.

    BFA at least had good cinematics, some interesting twists, and brought us allied races which really helped with the monotony of leveling.
    How do allied races help with the monotony of leveling? They are just new races (most of them made on the cheap) that do the same leveling...
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  14. #294
    Warlords of Draenor, easily. WoD's endgame might have been a disaster but it had some of the finest levelling in WoW's history -- great zones, music, exploration and experimenting with the garrison DURING LEVELLING was a lot of fun. BFA and SL's levelling is dull and boring in comparison. Oh and WoD's music was incredible.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    You're not wrong, but the end result was still markedly great in several aspects. You could pvp easily and without hassle on mains or alts, and pve wasnt neccessary to excel there. Healer regen no longer rising with spirit meant for the first time, dot-and-rot style gameplay was truly valuable, and affliction could finally feel like its fantasy promised since classic. (In mop affliction had amazing design but healers mana regen meant you'd almost never kill through rot dmg and have to rely on cc/burst). Legion was the funnest i ever had arenaing despite not having the absolute peak of class design.

    M+ was an innovative and generally well liked addition to the game that made dungeons relevant again and gave you fun easily accessible group content instead of waiting for 30+ minutes in raid queues.

    Ye, Legiondaries were shit that for some reason they decided should only be fixed in the last patch, and ye the AP grind was annoying, but the expac had its solid points that gave you actually fun stuff to do for long streches of time, even more then some of its awesome predeccesors...

    ...and then we got BFA and SL.
    Don't get my wrong, I absolutely loved the shit out of Legion. I just find it fascinating as a case study of nostalgia how Legion had far worse grinds and busywork than BfA did by a long shot, but still ended up being loved once it was no longer current content.

    Legion absolutely wasnt despised like now for sure, but most of its goodwill seemed to originate from actually having content compared to WoD.
    M+ was nice and all, but it was also plagued with problems the first few patches, and really didnt really hit its stride until BfA introduced seasonal affixes.
    I absolutely loved Suramar, both for its story and engaging gameplay, but for everyone that loved it there seemed to be an equal amount that absolutely hated how timegated it was, and how it forced you to stay on the ground instead of being able to fly immediately.

    Then one day, specifically a month or so into BfA that flipped, and suddenly Legion was the hottest shit on the block. Most of that was absolutely deserved, but the fanbase seemed to complain about the same stuff in Legion that they blindly ignored was ever an issue in Legion.
    And then of course I noticed something even more interesting, that players were starting to defend WoD as objectively better than BfA, which was even more intriguing.
    It was around that time I realized how the collective mind of the playerbase worked. Once a new expansion starts up it almost immediately gets called the worst shit ever and the end of WoW as we know it, once its over the last expansion starts getting glorified, and by the time we are two expansions out, said expansion is suddenly almost completely free of problems, and whatever problems there were are only minor niggles on an otherwise perfect expansion.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Don't get my wrong, I absolutely loved the shit out of Legion. I just find it fascinating as a case study of nostalgia how Legion had far worse grinds and busywork than BfA did by a long shot, but still ended up being loved once it was no longer current content.
    Better, some people really think both SL is some hellish grindfest and Legion was great time. Discussion about expacs is devoid of any logic/facts. People listen to some youtuber instead of using brain and if youtuber is wrong, topic is simply ignored (like "let loot matter" and not giving freebies to casuals in 9.0).

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Don't get my wrong, I absolutely loved the shit out of Legion. I just find it fascinating as a case study of nostalgia how Legion had far worse grinds and busywork than BfA did by a long shot, but still ended up being loved once it was no longer current content.

    Legion absolutely wasnt despised like now for sure, but most of its goodwill seemed to originate from actually having content compared to WoD.
    M+ was nice and all, but it was also plagued with problems the first few patches, and really didnt really hit its stride until BfA introduced seasonal affixes.
    I absolutely loved Suramar, both for its story and engaging gameplay, but for everyone that loved it there seemed to be an equal amount that absolutely hated how timegated it was, and how it forced you to stay on the ground instead of being able to fly immediately.
    BfA also gated flight...

    Legion had issues, but compared to BfA it was a masterpiece. The weapons and their lore were at least interesting. The class halls were interesting, unlike the mission table in BfA. The weapon, being functionally a talent tree, grew in a consistent manner over the expansion, unlike azerite gear, which kept changing as you got different pieces (and which was pretty boring into the bargain). At least once you had your weapon filled out your character felt like a complete integrated spec, unlike in BfA where it was a base-bones spec with some (mostly pretty generic) shinies slapped on top. LAter in BfA the essences and then corruptions were just more of the same, but without any class or spec customisation at all.

    Then one day, specifically a month or so into BfA that flipped, and suddenly Legion was the hottest shit on the block. Most of that was absolutely deserved, but the fanbase seemed to complain about the same stuff in Legion that they blindly ignored was ever an issue in Legion.
    And then of course I noticed something even more interesting, that players were starting to defend WoD as objectively better than BfA, which was even more intriguing.
    It was around that time I realized how the collective mind of the playerbase worked. Once a new expansion starts up it almost immediately gets called the worst shit ever and the end of WoW as we know it, once its over the last expansion starts getting glorified, and by the time we are two expansions out, said expansion is suddenly almost completely free of problems, and whatever problems there were are only minor niggles on an otherwise perfect expansion.
    I still strongly dislike a lot of Cataclysm, and really don't like WoD aside from it having had good levelled and the crafting being good. I just BfA a good deal less, and so far SL is coming in under WoD (but it might come out ahead, if Blizzard unf**ks things).

    You're lumping everyone that differs from your opinion into one basket, and it's not that simple.


    BTW, one thing that I think shows the messed up design philosophy of SL - world bosses, or rather, getting to world bosses. It's a pain (or was until flight came in - but that only helps for the old ones). What purpose does making getting to a world boss a real nuisance for everyone who isn't a tank or stealthy serve? To remind us that we failed at the class choice screen?
    Last edited by Kalisandra; 2021-09-25 at 11:34 AM.

  18. #298
    from those 3? wod

  19. #299
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    If WoD had had more content, for example Farahlon or the (in)famously cancelled Shattrath raid, it would have been a decent expansion (lore shenanigans aside). But with BfA or SL, it doesn't really matter (imo) how much more content they could be thrown upon, they would still be bad expansions anyway, because they are flawed at a basic level. Of course, the evident dearth of content in SL makes the issue all the more pressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  20. #300
    Glad to see after 7 days that BFA isn't being rose-tinted too badly and acknowledged as the worst expansion. A lot of the features from BFA are things people complained about in 7.3 [Netherlight Cruicble [Proto-type azerite powers] & 9.0 [borrowed powers, invasions, etc] are things that people complained about then and now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I don't know, "I WILL NEVER SERVE" is now in the running for overthrowing this as the stupidest cutscene line ever
    It honestly isn't that bad of a line if you consider the full situation and context. She should've just instead said:

    Jailer: "I will forge a new reality and all shall serve..
    Arthas: Serve
    Lich King: Serve
    Zovaal: me.
    *Sylvanas fires her black arrow and is caught by Zovaal*
    Sylvanas: "And never more."


    That way it asserts her knowing her wrong doings and being a servant to multiple masters.

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