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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    I think it’s biggest problem is it can’t decide what it wants to be and ends up being an awkward compromise of trying to be everything, while not really succeeding at any.
    No, I think the biggest problem is that they want it to be something that is incompatible with what the conditions of the market requires it to be. They want a hardcore focused game, but it can't be that. So it becomes a twisted thing that's lying to itself, and when resources get constrained this contradiction shows more and more strongly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Lets focus on what works.

    Why was vanilla and the now classic so successful? SIMPLICITY. Modern WoW is pointlessly complex. Intricate quests that noone gives a fuck about, borrowed power that never makes you feel empowered, showered items that end in the vendor in a matter of seconds, the usual "re-arrange your bags" routine etc.
    One of the purest examples of this, on a small scale, was the move in SL to award players gray items instead of gold. What the hell was the point of this?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  2. #202
    Well, this is exactly the direction the game is going under Ion currently. And non-hardcore players are leaving by the droves of late. Blizzard's strategy right now is to retain a small group of hardcore loyalists instead of catering to a larger group of players
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Biden is a creepy old dude, I will not be voting for the guy.
    ^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, I think the biggest problem is that they want it to be something that is incompatible with what the conditions of the market requires it to be. They want a hardcore focused game, but it can't be that. So it becomes a twisted thing that's lying to itself, and when resources get constrained this contradiction shows more and more strongly.

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    One of the purest examples of this, on a small scale, was the move in SL to award players gray items instead of gold. What the hell was the point of this?
    Very well said, never understood that either. Only thing that comes to mind is some strange RP thing where you kill a mob its unnatural to drop gold because its a wolf for instance. But again, strange to say the least.
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  4. #204
    Says something when my immediate reaction to the thread title is to snort in derision and just think "lolno".

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    Well, this is exactly the direction the game is going under Ion currently. And non-hardcore players are leaving by the droves of late. Blizzard's strategy right now is to retain a small group of hardcore loyalists instead of catering to a larger group of players
    I mean it's going towards the hardcore I agree... wow wants to cater to people spamming dailies along side their other activities. Not sure how you get raider out of that to be honest...

    No raider said " o boy! Covenants, renowned,corruption, azerite, conduits,isles,ap,soul ash, craftable leggos, mandatory, legos, artifact research, rep locked sockets, azerite armor, and every other grind system I've seen slowly be shoved into the game..."

    Perhaps I hang around the wrong mythic communities but everyone appears to hate that shit.

  6. #206
    Yes, design the game for the 1-2% of the playerbase. What could POSSIBLY go wrong


    /s

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Yes, design the game for the 1-2% of the playerbase. What could POSSIBLY go wrong


    /s
    I've not been given any concise examples of what could go wrong yet... I've seen people weirdly blame raiders for alternative power... the system they screamed since pre alpha would be horrible but no examples yet...

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    I've not been given any concise examples of what could go wrong yet... I've seen people weirdly blame raiders for alternative power... the system they screamed since pre alpha would be horrible but no examples yet...
    Do you think that a player who discovers the game is not designed for them, but for someone else, is going to be happy? Do you think they are likely to continue to play the game?

    And which is larger, 2% of the population or 98% of the population?

    I think it's crystal clear what could go wrong. It's bizarre you're pretending not to see it.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This is something im tired of going over and over - for some weird reason, when discussing wow and in particular comparing expac to expac, patch to patch, SO many people focus on how much content there was. Why are more people not talking about the quality? Isnt this really all that matters, outside of extreme droughts etc.
    That's the problem though. Often it's low quality implementations that's just designed for you to spend as much time on as possible. Or a system that forces you to spend time before getting to the point where you can feel the quality. PvP as an example, is supposedly balanced around max gear, and when you do have the best gear, PvP has usually been a fun and relatively balanced experience, but the process of getting to that point is blistering anus-cancer for a hundred hours doing something that isn't a fun and balanced experience. Same goes for mythic raiding, the pinnacle of quality design, the place where fun is had, but you have to pay the tax of spending months gearing up in lesser versions and a toxic environment to get there. The process repeats itself every patch.

    The same can be said to varying degrees about most of WoW, by the time anything gets good, you've already been sick of it for a while.

    The content drought people were complaining about in WoD is a good example, there was plenty to do, no-one had gotten all of it done, but people couldn't stand keep doing it.
    Last edited by Tronski; 2021-09-30 at 07:14 AM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    Well, this is exactly the direction the game is going under Ion currently. And non-hardcore players are leaving by the droves of late. Blizzard's strategy right now is to retain a small group of hardcore loyalists instead of catering to a larger group of players
    How exactly they cutter to hardcore players when majority of game is completly casual friendly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    That's the problem though. Often it's low quality implementations that's just designed for you to spend as much time on as possible. Or a system that forces you to spend time before getting to the point where you can feel the quality. PvP as an example, is supposedly balanced around max gear, and when you do have the best gear, PvP has usually been a fun and relatively balanced experience, but the process of getting to that point is blistering anus-cancer for a hundred hours doing something that isn't a fun and balanced experience. Same goes for mythic raiding, the pinnacle of quality design, the place where fun is had, but you have to pay the tax of spending months gearing up in lesser versions and a toxic environment to get there. The process repeats itself every patch.

    The same can be said to varying degrees about most of WoW, by the time anything gets good, you've already been sick of it for a while.

    The content drought people were complaining about in WoD is a good example, there was plenty to do, no-one had gotten all of it done, but people couldn't stand keep doing it.
    If you dont like spending hundreds of hours progressing your character and getting gear than problem isnt game but you. You complain about gear progression being thing in mmorpg game. Like is it even possible to have some stupier opinion?

  11. #211
    It would be a horrible idea to design a game around the top.. 3% of players? Like...I don't even begin to start with how bad and how fast they'd lose everyone (not like they have too many to lose to begin with anymore). I've no idea where the super minority of players think that the game should be tailored to them. The super casuals do it and the super hardcore do it. Mythic raiders don't just want more dungeons and raids. They want to get rid of the same crappy systems they've been recycling for 4+ expansions and news flash, it's not just the super hardcore that want it gone. We've had Artifact Power in 3 different expansions now that nobody enjoys grinding out. But people do nothing but whine and complain that "there isn't enough to do" so what does blizzard do? Fill the game with a bunch of tedious crap instead of just being honest with players.

    There are other games out there guys, once you're done with your daily stuff, go play something else. Once your done with your weekly, go play something else. If everyone stopped complaining they want to spend all the their free time playing just one singular game we wouldn't have all this tedious garbage to do. Gear would be gear again without the need to grind for Azerite Powers/Conduits/Heart Levels. World Quests would have to be revamped into these mind numbing chores that are required to stay on top of the most recent AP grind. Remember when WQ's could be "Hey go kill this rare and you're DONE?" I've not seen those easy quick ones in Shadowlands because they took them out because people demanded "more things to do." So now we have 100 "fill the bar" quests where 1 mob = 1%. Because that's fun and engaging, right? Not a waste of several hours a day depending on how far behind/alts you have. And while it's "optional now" i'd love nothing more than for this mission table to be yeeted into the abyss. We've had it since WARLORDS. I think it's time to retire it.
    "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
    Varok Saurfang

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Do you think that a player who discovers the game is not designed for them, but for someone else, is going to be happy? Do you think they are likely to continue to play the game?

    And which is larger, 2% of the population or 98% of the population?

    I think it's crystal clear what could go wrong. It's bizarre you're pretending not to see it.
    Yes because there are difficulties designed for them...?

    Do you scream " fucking bullshit " when playing other games and a choice between easy,normal,and hard comes up...?

  13. #213
    Tbh what you want for wow? Since vanilla it wasn't designed for casuals, imagine if they focus on casuals, those who doesn't want even aotc, hmm I got all mounts rep saw history why I should keep paying, while the Mythic players play for months just to prog and keep account up, wow should focus on those hardcore, but no forgetting casuals
    In the end everyone stops when reach their personal goals

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    The best scenario I can see it's reduce the minimum raid size for 10 on mythic, or remove "raid" set 5man mythic "dungeon" with the same length, I've swapped raid core twice already bc of the lack of players, get 20man it's hard, 20 without attendence harder, 20 playing good close to impossible, it's just an win win scenario if reduce

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