Maybe the game should be designed for mythic raiders?

[Empower]

And do you have to prove two claims:
• First, prove that the expansions you mentioned were "designed around the 1%".
• Second, prove that the success of those expansions was solely or at least for the most part because of said "designed around the 1%".

Because I can almost guarantee you that those expansions were not designed "around the 1%" of players, considering WoW is and has always been, even at its inception, a game that caters to the casuals.

You make it for them and scale down for lower difficulties kills time gates makes quality.

[Ielenia]

You make it for them and scale down for lower difficulties kills

Wrath, the expansion that the overwhelming majority lauds as the best, or at least one of the best expansions, the one that introduced "lower difficulties"? The expansion that introduced SO MANY DIFFERENT BADGE CURRENCIES? The expansion that added piss-easy heroics?

Again, how can you believe that WoW was "designed around the 1%" when the original developers themselves said that they designed WoW to be more casual-friendly than the rest of the MMOs around at the time? When WoW players at the time were called "freaking casuals"?

time gates makes quality.

You honestly cannot believe that statement.

[RoKPaNda]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

I mean I am a Mythic raider and by far the biggest improvement this game ever had for me was when Blizzard added a feature for super casuals. The second that they added LFR and actually got decent "raid" participation numbers through that the quality of the raids went way up. When you cater to the average player it's better for everyone. When you cater to players like me and the world first race people it's bad for everyone.

As an example BFA was shit because Blizzard listened to our complaints and they didn't care about the average player's experience. We whined endlessly about the AP grind, we whined endlessly about the legendaries, we whined endlessly about WF/TF. So they removed the AP grind by making Azerite front loaded, they removed RNG legendaries and they crippled titanforging and the end result of that was less fun for the casual playerbase and tbh we didn't really like it either. But those were changes made to the overall game based on feedback by those of us at the top.

I'd much rather that Blizzard make a fun game for the casuals and then just give us our hard mode raiding. The only area where they'll need to make changes to account for us is to add time gating because we literally have zero self control. Make the game as fun as possible for the casuals, they keep the lights on, and then give us our fun and engaging and buggy as shit Mythic raid difficulty. IMO it's never okay to fuck over the casual player to cater to us, and they made that mistake in WoD and BFA. Shadowlands is just meh on it's own though.

[Empower]

Wrath, the expansion that the overwhelming majority lauds as the best, or at least one of the best expansions, the one that introduced "lower difficulties"? The expansion that introduced SO MANY DIFFERENT BADGE CURRENCIES? The expansion that added piss-easy heroics?

Again, how can you believe that WoW was "designed around the 1%" when the original developers themselves said that they designed WoW to be more casual-friendly than the rest of the MMOs around at the time? When WoW players at the time were called "freaking casuals"?


You honestly cannot believe that statement.

I don't think you read anything I've posted but invented an argument of your own making to refute. You can go to the op and try again.

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I mean I am a Mythic raider and by far the biggest improvement this game ever had for me was when Blizzard added a feature for super casuals. The second that they added LFR and actually got decent "raid" participation numbers through that the quality of the raids went way up. When you cater to the average player it's better for everyone. When you cater to players like me and the world first race people it's bad for everyone.

As an example BFA was shit because Blizzard listened to our complaints and they didn't care about the average player's experience. We whined endlessly about the AP grind, we whined endlessly about the legendaries, we whined endlessly about WF/TF. So they removed the AP grind by making Azerite front loaded, they removed RNG legendaries and they crippled titanforging and the end result of that was less fun for the casual playerbase and tbh we didn't really like it either. But those were changes made to the overall game based on feedback by those of us at the top.

I'd much rather that Blizzard make a fun game for the casuals and then just give us our hard mode raiding. The only area where they'll need to make changes to account for us is to add time gating because we literally have zero self control. Make the game as fun as possible for the casuals, they keep the lights on, and then give us our fun and engaging and buggy as shit Mythic raid difficulty. IMO it's never okay to fuck over the casual player to cater to us, and they made that mistake in WoD and BFA. Shadowlands is just meh on it's own though.

Works better to do it in reverse. Make good dungeons and raids then make easier modes and design around that. You get less cluttered systems and wasted time.

[WowIsDead64]

inb4 self-proclaimed super casuals pile and say the game is already designed for Mythic raiders.

Game is already designed for M+ runners and Mythic raiders, because there is no viable way to progress in it outside of this activities.

[erifwodahs]

I'm ilvl 250 M+ 2436 and 5/10 Mythic.

Up until 4 months into SL i always played casual, rare lfr like maybe 2, and at times lots of lfg depending on expac and my alt goals.

Met the right peeps and yeah, CE Raider.

The game is a disgusting display of how esport it is, it's no longer an mmorpg, meaning casuals are a very low priority, their is no attention payed to this player base and is why they all left for a real mmorpg, ffxiv, where they are welcome as human equals whom just want to have fun, and not treated like lower forms of life as the elitist snob's in wow do. There is a very deep core of sickness in players whom whole life evolves around them being the shit in game cause they are losers in life, not everyone but being up in this crowd, as they know people, who know people and i meet lots of people, yeah wow my dudes!!! git gud at life ffs. Not everyone, there are some decent down to earth players whom just love to raid, but i never knew it was this bad till i joined this crowd.

So yeah i don't even know why they call it an mmorpg anymore, it's an esport, notice the every expac zones get smaller, quests are few, but i'll admit the raids are awesome af, the mythic plus needs to go as that purely breeds toxicity, i mean what would you expect from a feature developed by sexual predators.

Looks probable we are stuck at 5/10 mythic as we just lost our prime healer to ffxiv, which is ok as i'm heading in to New World, i'll still show up for raid nights ofc, but outside of that it's nice not being around this toxicity.

So agreed let all the elitist snobs finally have their game and let casuals be free to play real mmorpg's, the game totally focuses on mythic players, and mythic content, they treat mythic players like rock stars, it's all about raids and M+, the game is already designed for Mythic raiders 100%!!! Casual lives don't matter. Gawd i can't wait for New World and take a shower and wash the filth of this game off. lol just being dramatic. Still showing up for raid while we still have enough players, but i don't know, we losing peeps to real mmorpgs, or peeps that just are disgusted with Blizz and are stepping out for a bit. I canceled my sub, i go 6 months and still have 4 left so, smarten the fuck up blizz, know your audience. OK you didn't know sexual predators were designing the steaming pile of shit the game has turned into M+ like my gawd what an stupid af unoriginal toxic brewery that is, time to turn it around. Thank gawd for New World.

Holy fuck you are one sad person. Talking about sore losers Irony.

[Usernameforforums]

I recall no raider asking for a leveling revamp nor a garrison...

Leveling did need a revamp though. Garrisons were there to appease the player housing crowd but because wod was wod and like a good 30-40% was cut, they failed.

[Azerate]

No. Mythic raiders are the 1% of the player base. Literally nothing should be designed around them.

Game is already designed for M+ runners and Mythic raiders, because there is no viable way to progress in it outside of this activities.

False. The main PVE content route is designed around RAIDS. Not specifically just the highest difficulty. You can progress through lfr/normal/heroic/mythic as well as all levels of m+ and finish your progression at a desired level.

[Empower]

No. Mythic raiders are the 1% of the player base. Literally nothing should be designed around them.



False. The main PVE content route is designed around RAIDS. Not specifically just the highest difficulty. You can progress through lfr/normal/heroic/mythic as well as all levels of m+ and finish your progression at a desired level.

Everything should be... there hasn't been content designed around casuals that hasn't sucked and utter failed. In fact I want you to name me a single feature that hasn't!.

You design some tastey dungeons and raids then you simply make them easier and easier for different modes and vola instant quality content. Designing around casuals makes dog shit like power systems and choreghast.

Designing around your good players gets you quality like mage tower.

[Echocho]

Everything should be... there hasn't been content designed around casuals that hasn't sucked and utter failed. In fact I want you to name me a single feature that hasn't!.

Timeless Isle

[Hellobolis]

The more I think about it the more it seems like everyone wins if blizzard focuses on mythic players. What do mythic players want? More dungeons and raids with decently tuned classes and nothing else.

How does everyone else win? Simple you just scale down the content and you get easier modes of what is designed and everyone gets more then they have now.

It isnt free mind you... such a system wouldn't tolerate choreghast, conduits, renowned, covenants , corruption and the assorted trash aimed at 80 hour a week " casuals" but I think this bold new approach might really revitalize the game.

exactly how would it not tolerate chores/story content? people gotto have something to do outside raids.

it's more the other way around: many mythic guilds are "at capacity" (almost as if its designed that way :O). theres basically 3 types of mythic guild:
-pre nerf guilds, clear raid in ~3 months
-cutting edge guilds, clear raid in ~6 months with some nerfs
-mythic guilds, clear 50-75% of the raid before new content.

so in a 6-8 month patch cycle, only 1 of those types of guilds (the smallest section too) would actually benefit from there being more frequent raid content. your idea makes more sense for the heroic difficulty, where a new raid every 3 months orso would be quite doable for the bulk of the raiding playerbase.

[Empower]

Timeless Isle

You know what... that is honestly fair. Catch up content like that when it is catch up content is pretty good.

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exactly how would it not tolerate chores/story content? people gotto have something to do outside raids.

it's more the other way around: many mythic guilds are "at capacity" (almost as if its designed that way :O). theres basically 3 types of mythic guild:
-pre nerf guilds, clear raid in ~3 months
-cutting edge guilds, clear raid in ~6 months with some nerfs
-mythic guilds, clear 50-75% of the raid before new content.

so in a 6-8 month patch cycle, only 1 of those types of guilds (the smallest section too) would actually benefit from there being more frequent raid content. your idea makes more sense for the heroic difficulty, where a new raid every 3 months orso would be quite doable for the bulk of the raiding playerbase.

People playing wow for the story are the same who read playboy for the articles.

Everyone benefits from more content it's the journey not the destination.

[NineSpine]

Everything should be... there hasn't been content designed around casuals that hasn't sucked and utter failed. In fact I want you to name me a single feature that hasn't!.

You design some tastey dungeons and raids then you simply make them easier and easier for different modes and vola instant quality content. Designing around casuals makes dog shit like power systems and choreghast.

Designing around your good players gets you quality like mage tower.

Wintergrasp, Timeless Isle, and the Mage Tower, because the idea that Mage Tower was designed for high end raiders is delusional.

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In fact, let's keep going: Artifacts, heroic dungeons, class halls, daily quest hubs, want to keep going?

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Timewalking, battlegrounds... Need more?

[Zigrifid]

Why should wow be designed only for the 1% ?? this isnt real life lol

[NineSpine]

Two more casual features: Brawler's Guild! Transmog!

[Dazmalak]

I like the idea. WoW needs to die sooner than later so this would definitely help it along.

[Hellobolis]

You know what... that is honestly fair. Catch up content like that when it is catch up content is pretty good.

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People playing wow for the story are the same who read playboy for the articles.

Everyone benefits from more content it's the journey not the destination.

i dunno if content comes out faster than you can complete it i can imagine that being offputting to a lot of people.

specifically if content comes out faster than the "you hit the wall" moment.

e.g. just go back in time a few weeks: imagine that instead of nerfing painsmith mythic they brought out a new raid at that time. i don't think that would have gone over too well honestly.

[xpsync]

Holy fuck you are one sad person. Talking about sore losers Irony.

I used to solo and was oblivious to this side of the game, now that I'm there, i didn't know it was such a sorry state of serious no lifers is all, that is what is sad my dude.

The thing is, it's not that elite in that it's not that hard, it's just repetitive af and massively time consuming, which yea i love the raids and i hate being forced to do M+ to do so, which is stupid af cause i'm even hitting 21 on half them now helping guild mates, it's more annoying than anything, far from fun and in raid still 5/10 mythic lost more people to ffxiv cause they want to enjoy life i guess and all we've done since is take down soulrender a 3rd time.

I dunno just makes me laugh at how people think they are so superior over casual players and casuals are low life losers is all, when in fact what they feel superior about is not hard at all, just life sucking, all it shows is how little you are doing with your real life and what a loser you are is all anyone thinks, they ain't going omg look at him he's so amazing, they are just feeling sad for you that you have no life, and is why i'm out of CE come 9.2 it's just a waste of life, heroic you can just slam through that in no time and enjoy life again, and those who feel they are superior are the real losers, as casual players have a life, they are the winners.

[Azerate]

Everything should be... there hasn't been content designed around casuals that hasn't sucked and utter failed. In fact I want you to name me a single feature that hasn't!.

You design some tastey dungeons and raids then you simply make them easier and easier for different modes and vola instant quality content. Designing around casuals makes dog shit like power systems and choreghast.

Designing around your good players gets you quality like mage tower.

Designing around mythic raiders is what causes fights like Kil'Jaeden (ToS) or Azshara to happen. Multiple stage slugfests where one mistake means you have to start over that kills all raid groups that don't consist of hardcore dedicated players. Stuff like that is just annoying to a regular person who wants to play some pve without devoting their life to it.

You also seem to be under the impression that raids and dungeons are always designed with mythic raiders in mind. The objective fact is that we do not know whether that is the case, but there is actually strong evidence to the contrary.

And yeah, a lot of non-raid and non-dungeon content in wow is great. Not sure what you're on about. Unless you're one of those "raid only" people.

[Tyris Flare]

People playing wow for the story are the same who read playboy for the articles.

Everyone benefits from more content it's the journey not the destination.

I know it's hard to accept because I also find it mind-boggling, but the truth is that to the vast majority of players, the story and immersion are the number 1 feature and everything else is just gravy. Like I can't even believe that a game like LoL apparently has "lore" but oodles of people care about it and the world. Without that, it would have fallen off like every other moba.