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  1. #61
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    They are still high elves. It's the same race

    The name Blood Elves is meant to honor the fallen during Arthas' attack on Quel'thalas.

    Honestly, calling yourself a "high elf" is pretty disrespectful if you think about it
    I agree. I do not know why people think they are two different races.
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  2. #62
    If you're still a Night Elf fan and you religiously follow the story/lore, you might be a certified masochist at this point.

  3. #63
    The Patient BB8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Remember 3 years ago when Tyrande invoked the Night Warrior and all Night Elf players thought they'd finally get some retribution? What a joke. Worst of all is that she's been portrayed like a mad woman for wanting justice. Now that she chose 'renewal' (which basically means letting the Horde get away with it, again) over vengeance, all chances of seeing retribution are gone.

    Imo, to have at least some form of closure, the Kaldorei should give the Horde an ultimatum. Depart from Night Elf lands and never return, or be hunted down. These lands include Darkshore, Ashenvale, Mount Hyjal and Moonglade. I'm sure the mages and druids could construct some natural/magical barrier between Ashenvale and the Barrens/Azshara, to prevent any trespassing. Malfurion should also kick the Tauren and Trolls out of the Cenarion Circle. Letting them join was dumb decision to begin with.

    However, knowing Blizzard, the Horde will be invading Ashenvale again in 3-5 years. And they again will get away with it scot free.
    Yeah i wish this was true, not this redeeming shitshow they gave us now.

  4. #64
    Sounds like you expected a satisfying resolution of a storyline with the current Warcraft writing team. Namely with Danuser at the helm.

    You should know better.
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    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  5. #65
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    I think they could've split the NE faction and perhaps had some go full foreverwar even against their own that would've been in their way. They made a mistake early on however by chosing Tyrande as the night warrior as it would've made more sense for Shandris and her rangers to seek vengeance at all cost rather than a bunch of forgiving priests. Oh well, what we got wasn't so bad with Tyrande and Sylvanas clashing. It just could've been more and far more interesting with her protegé on the line and more war imo. Sometimes this on-off war between factions and expansions bites them in the butt.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  6. #66
    Okay, it's been what? 20 years since WC 3?
    Every. Single. Plot had the same themes and messages in it since WCIII. Overcoming your differences, uniting against "the real threat", forgiving your enemies, rebuilding and so on and so on. They do it again and again and again. That's the plot they like to write, that's the plot they are going to keep writing and if they try something slightly different, it's always terrible, because they keep slipping into their comfort zone again anyways.

    Now you can either write "but it's called warcraft!!1" for the next 20 years or accept that fact and move on to people who actually write stuff you like.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  7. #67
    You have to look on the bright side. The 5 demands of a company with a plot that is based on the fact that Justice is bad and that you have to shut up and endure being beaten. Where you're never going to be a better person and you're only going to get worse and worse.

    A good way to leave the WoW lore for once. The lord who went from talking about equality to being one of the truly raxist and sexist lords of the fantasy worlds.

    The Orcs of WoW went from being the ones who swallowed the idea of "orcs are not monsters" to being the most evil orcs of all the worlds of Fantasy.
    The other Orcs kill you because they think that's okay, because of their culture, because you're the bad guy in their story. The Orcs of WoW know that what they do is wrong, it goes against their customs and they still do it just for fun. They are the bad guys in their own story.

    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    Okay, it's been what? 20 years since WC 3?
    Every. Single. Plot had the same themes and messages in it since WCIII. Overcoming your differences, uniting against "the real threat", forgiving your enemies, rebuilding and so on and so on. They do it again and again and again. That's the plot they like to write, that's the plot they are going to keep writing and if they try something slightly different, it's always terrible, because they keep slipping into their comfort zone again anyways.

    Now you can either write "but it's called warcraft!!1" for the next 20 years or accept that fact and move on to people who actually write stuff you like.
    The point is that every time they tell the same plot it makes less sense.

    The Orcs used to be a race that had become corrupted and that is why they did something wrong. but they were really good.

    Now the Orcs are a band of genociders who only think of the most efficient way to kill the greatest number of civilians and every so often they decide to do something good.

    Before you had to unite against the "greater evil" now the greater Evil is the Horde.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    Okay, it's been what? 20 years since WC 3?
    Every. Single. Plot had the same themes and messages in it since WCIII. Overcoming your differences, uniting against "the real threat", forgiving your enemies, rebuilding and so on and so on. They do it again and again and again. That's the plot they like to write, that's the plot they are going to keep writing and if they try something slightly different, it's always terrible, because they keep slipping into their comfort zone again anyways.

    Now you can either write "but it's called warcraft!!1" for the next 20 years or accept that fact and move on to people who actually write stuff you like.
    If they want to write that content they should stop enraging the players by rising the stakes and using shit like genocide and/or war crimes fiestas.

  9. #69
    I find it funny how the 'forgiving your enemies' plot line only exists between alliance and horde. If its the scourge, mogu, old gods, gnols, kobolds, quillboar, centaur, legion, non-horde trolls, elementals, etc its pretty much open season to kill and murder as you please. Some of these factions there's clearly no reasoning with, but on its not like diplomacy has gotten the alliance anywhere, not to mention the Horde deals more lasting damage to the alliance than any other threat in the game.

    I wish Tyrande had chosen vengeance as it'd have lead to change. Warcraft is excessively static. The main characters are still primarily WC3 heroes around 20 years after WC3's release. Compare this to WC1-3 where the main characters pretty much changed every installment.
    Last edited by Myradin; 2021-09-27 at 01:54 PM.

  10. #70
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I still maintain that line everyone pokes fun at was the satyr mimicking Malfurion's voice, as we find that all of the crying out Malfurions scattered about are illusions and he mocks her with each one we uncover.
    Still doesn't stop people from mocking and hating it...
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Honest question though, as I'm very much not a 'Night Elf guy' and don't pay massively close attention to their lore:

    What powers did she gain from bring the Night Warrior? What was it she was able to do after gaining this power that she couldn't do before?

    Because most of what I remember her doing seemed to be things she could do before. Firing arrows and using moon magic certainly seemed to be things that she could have done pre-Elune juice. Swinging glaives around? It's totally possible that I missed a big something or somethings, but it never really felt like the powers really manifested as anything we saw. Certainly not like with Sylvanas, where we saw her Jailer juice let her do things like unleash bolts of death magic that defied the understanding of top mages, or create spooky magic chains that let her solo the Lich King. Tyrande, comparatively, didn't seem to actually do much with her powers and I feel like they were woefully ill defined.
    The only thing that comes to my mind is the nitro boost allowing her to intercept Sylvanas mid-air in Ardenweald. But even that was after being empowered even beyond the baseline, and apparently demanded so much power that it was basically a suicide attack as she says "my life for hers" before using it. Otherwise she does nothing she shouldn't have been able to do beforehand, killing a random Val'kyr, a 10% Nathanos or massacring Mawsworn mooks wasn't out of her reach before.

    But even then the powerup is poorly defined, goes nowhere, and is wildly inconsistent. So okay, Elune doesn't want Tyrande to die. She goes so far as to remove her power when she's about to kill Sylvanas, because apparently that'll cause a mutual kill. My question, why grant them those powers to begin with? Why even answer the ritual if Tyrande is too precious to let die?

    It's weird because the powerups of Tyrande and Sylvanas are treated completely differently. They show us the ritual that empowers the former but then pretty much only tell us how powerful it made her. By contrast Sylvanas randomly starts being able to do demigod shit, raising entire armies of undead, humiliating the Lich King and standing her ground against the raid that defeated an Eternal, but we never got any explanation for it and the narrative hardly ever acknowledged all the levels she gained at all. We obviously extrapolated that the Jailer gave her some juice but it's never actually stated, let alone shown.
    Last edited by Jastall; 2021-09-27 at 09:01 PM.
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  12. #72
    Herald of the Titans Nathreim's Avatar
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    She would have died and never received her revenge. Its clear she was on her last legs she couldn't even tell friend from foe anymore if she chose vengeance most likely she would have been put down like a rabid dog by the Winter Queen and company.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    She would have died and never received her revenge. Its clear she was on her last legs she couldn't even tell friend from foe anymore if she chose vengeance most likely she would have been put down like a rabid dog by the Winter Queen and company.
    Even that would have being better then becoming a complacent cattle.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The only thing that comes to my mind is the nitro boost allowing her to intercept Sylvanas mid-air in Ardenweald. But even that was after being empowered even beyond the baseline, and apparently demanded so much power that it was basically a suicide attack as she says "my life for hers" before using it. Otherwise she does nothing she shouldn't have been able to do beforehand, killing a random Val'kyr, a 10% Nathanos or massacring Mawsworn mooks wasn't out of her reach before.

    But even then the powerup is poorly defined, goes nowhere, and is wildly inconsistent. So okay, Elune doesn't want Tyrande to die. She goes so far as to remove her power when she's about to kill Sylvanas, because apparently that'll cause a mutual kill. My question, why grant them those powers to begin with? Why even answer the ritual if Tyrande is too precious to let die?

    It's weird because the powerups of Tyrande and Sylvanas are treated completely differently. They show us the ritual that empowers the former but then pretty much only tell us how powerful it made her. By contrast Sylvanas randomly starts being able to do demigod shit, raising entire armies of undead, humiliating the Lich King and standing her ground against the raid that defeated an Eternal, but we never got any explanation for it and the narrative hardly ever acknowledged all the levels she gained at all. We obviously extrapolated that the Jailer gave her some juice but it's never actually stated, let alone shown.
    Ultimately I think it was a really weird narrative choice to not show her actually be powered up. It's made even weirder by the number of opportunities they had to do exactly that. Other than he yeeting off to catch up to Sylvanas, she doesn't do anything after becoming a Night Warrior that she couldn't have done before, and being able to fly a short distance doesn't seem like an amazing tradeoff for a magical death sentence.

    Imbuing a character with the might of a Goddess, so much might that it will absolutely kill them, really needs to be visually amazing and it really needs to be demonstrated as to why she would make this ultimately trade. They just don't do it though. They make Tyrande seem little different other than spooky eyes and an angrier attitude.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Ultimately I think it was a really weird narrative choice to not show her actually be powered up. It's made even weirder by the number of opportunities they had to do exactly that. Other than he yeeting off to catch up to Sylvanas, she doesn't do anything after becoming a Night Warrior that she couldn't have done before, and being able to fly a short distance doesn't seem like an amazing tradeoff for a magical death sentence.

    Imbuing a character with the might of a Goddess, so much might that it will absolutely kill them, really needs to be visually amazing and it really needs to be demonstrated as to why she would make this ultimately trade. They just don't do it though. They make Tyrande seem little different other than spooky eyes and an angrier attitude.
    Because her powerup had clear targets - Sylvanas and the Horde.

    Sylvanas cant be touched or even disturbed because Danuser unironicaly simps for her. And likely has enough blackmail material to sink whole Blizzard if they piss him off by killing her.

    And Horde cant be touched because 90% of Blizzard play as them or just stick to this part of the fandom so they wouldnt shoot themselves in the nuts like that.

    Its about as clear as it goes.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Because her powerup had clear targets - Sylvanas and the Horde.

    Sylvanas cant be touched or even disturbed because Danuser unironicaly simps for her. And likely has enough blackmail material to sink whole Blizzard if they piss him off by killing her.

    And Horde cant be touched because 90% of Blizzard play as them or just stick to this part of the fandom so they wouldnt shoot themselves in the nuts like that.

    Its about as clear as it goes.
    Except we did have her kill Nathanos. And instead of doing something super cool and new when she killed him, she pretty much did the same ol' stuff she always had.

  17. #77
    The whole story was just pointless once they started to sweep the burning of teldrassil under the rug via damage control. Should never had bothered with it at all or the entirety of bfa if they just handwave all of it away.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Except we did have her kill Nathanos. And instead of doing something super cool and new when she killed him, she pretty much did the same ol' stuff she always had.
    Nathanos who only died because he WANTED to and who will be back for Sylvanas redemption you mean?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Nathanos who only died because he WANTED to and who will be back for Sylvanas redemption you mean?
    The *why* of his death is unimportant though. The issue is that this was an absolutely perfect opportunity for Blizzard to showcase what Tyrande could do with her magic moon juice powers, and they just... didn't.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    The *why* of his death is unimportant though. The issue is that this was an absolutely perfect opportunity for Blizzard to showcase what Tyrande could do with her magic moon juice powers, and they just... didn't.
    Nathanos is lorewise too weak to really “show” anything.

    They should have let her kill or severely damage Sylvanas , only for Jailer to later “put her back together” since he would have had her Banshee soul anyway.

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