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  1. #1

    Should wow force you to learn the basics?

    Seems an odd topic to bring up but it is something I find myself thinking about now and then especially with mods like Hekili becoming more popular.

    Should wow offer/incorporate a basic rotation helper into their game as a teaching tool for new players? There isn't really a lot of resources in game to figure out if you are doing something right or wrong these days and it seems to me at least an ideal way to get people started.

  2. #2
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Seems an odd topic to bring up but it is something I find myself thinking about now and then especially with mods like Hekili becoming more popular.

    Should wow offer/incorporate a basic rotation helper into their game as a teaching tool for new players? There isn't really a lot of resources in game to figure out if you are doing something right or wrong these days and it seems to me at least an ideal way to get people started.
    No, they should not. There should not be added more handholding than needed. If people wish to learn their basics or class, they may do so by experiencing their chosen class and practice. If they want to go a bit further, there are the Proving Grounds as well. Anything further from there is trail and error, or research from other player's experience (guides).
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    No, they should not. There should not be added more handholding than needed. If people wish to learn their basics or class, they may do so by experiencing their chosen class and practice. If they want to go a bit further, there are the Proving Grounds as well. Anything further from there is trail and error, or research from other player's experience (guides).
    Sounds like a terrible idea for a multiplayer game. I can't think of any situation beyond predatory ones where you wouldn't want everyone knowing how to play.

  4. #4
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Sounds like a terrible idea for a multiplayer game. I can't think of any situation beyond predatory ones where you wouldn't want everyone knowing how to play.
    There is no predatory direction in telling people to experience, try, or learn from others. That is what an MMORPG should be about, not about directing people how to play other than that of what mechanics of a boss fight offer you, the rest is up to the adventurer to figure out - and if needed, there are great communities for all classes, professions, and gameplay.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Sounds like a terrible idea for a multiplayer game. I can't think of any situation beyond predatory ones where you wouldn't want everyone knowing how to play.
    Players are given a thorough tutorial though, and most classes have a very distinct "core" that should be obvious to new players. For Fire mages it's getting hot streak crits.

    If something should be changed its giving all classes a good look to see if they have a well defined core mechanic that is easily understandable and doesn't just boil down to not running out of resources.
    MM hunter and Rogues are especially hit by this problem I feel. MM especially really feels like it needs that extra certain something for players to intuitively grasp.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Sounds like a terrible idea for a multiplayer game. I can't think of any situation beyond predatory ones where you wouldn't want everyone knowing how to play.
    Ya'll never played fighting games and it shows

    Fighters didn't really start having ACTUAL tutorials until Skullgirls (2012) and didn't become even half mainstream for GOOD ones until..Guilty Gear Rev 2 (2017)? Injustice had a forced tutorial and people HATED it since it locked people out of the game until they figured out how to do a decent mix up which most players can't do. Thing is the game is only responsible for the absolute basics (how to move, how to fight, how to utilze your UI) anything advanced (how to move WELL, how to fight WELL, how to optimize your UI) is on the player.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    What exactly do you think things like Exile's Reach, the white tiger trials, or the pre-boost tutorials were meant to accomplish?

    Keep in mind, rotations change: so tutorials have to be regularly updated the more specific they are.
    I remember the Gilnean starting experience having a short intro to each class where for example healers had to heal some NPCs. It was super basics and only used like 1-2 spells but I honestly miss it as it gave you class flair when leveling a new char. It has now been completely removed for whatever reason but I assume the class rewamps during Legion is to blame.

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    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    No, people should just stop being bloody idiots who refuse to read tooltips and apply basic logic to figure out how their rotation works for their spec or what their ability priority setup is.

    The game gives you enough information to figure out how to play a spec properly, if you bother to actually read your abilities and spend a few minutes thinking about them.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    I remember the Gilnean starting experience having a short intro to each class where for example healers had to heal some NPCs. It was super basics and only used like 1-2 spells but I honestly miss it as it gave you class flair when leveling a new char. It has now been completely removed for whatever reason but I assume the class rewamps during Legion is to blame.
    Don't you get the option of choosing between Exile's Reach and the old starting area?

  10. #10
    I think the best solution is a /castsequence macro that can put out 75% of dps. That just gets people pointed in the right direction. If they want to get closer to 100%, they now have a general idea of what spells / skills to use and what can be added such that they can ignore the macro altogether and actually press the required buttons to reach max dps.

  11. #11
    No, let people play and have fun however they want. It's a video game.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    I remember the Gilnean starting experience having a short intro to each class where for example healers had to heal some NPCs. It was super basics and only used like 1-2 spells but I honestly miss it as it gave you class flair when leveling a new char. It has now been completely removed for whatever reason but I assume the class rewamps during Legion is to blame.
    Gilnean starting experience was great. I recently took a portal generated by the anima power toy thingy and it sent me to Gilneas. The nostalgia was real

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Don't you get the option of choosing between Exile's Reach and the old starting area?
    Only if you’re on an alt. New players have to do Exiles Reach and I think you need to reach a certain level on ya main before it’s considered a main

  13. #13
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Silver Proving Grounds was right to be a requirement, but it didn't have a reward to bait people along with. The reward was being able to actually do chores.

    The Mage Tower incentivized people to actually learn their class for a reward. Why it was removed and why more challenges weren't added is beyond me.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    The game gives you enough information to figure out how to play a spec properly, if you bother to actually read your abilities and spend a few minutes thinking about them.
    No the game doesn't actually do this. For example, proc munching. What is "acceptable" and what is the best course of action when said proc munching eventually happens?

    The game doesn't tell you what to do.


    Another example, Inactive Mitigation as covered by Peak of Serenity. Completely non-intutive approach yet it happened in BFA. How freaking messed up is that?
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  15. #15
    no, but it should encourage and help to do so.

  16. #16
    They tried something like this back in Panda Land and everyone freaked out.

    Like you had to complete some kind of trial on your class before you could queue for heroics or something like that. It didn't last long.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    no, but it should encourage and help to do so.
    How?

    Should the game monitor for unacceptable amounts of dps? Missed interrupts? Not dispelling?

    I get there is a vague notion that something should be done but everyone backs aware from possible solutions it seems.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Silver Proving Grounds was right to be a requirement, but it didn't have a reward to bait people along with. The reward was being able to actually do chores.

    The Mage Tower incentivized people to actually learn their class for a reward. Why it was removed and why more challenges weren't added is beyond me.
    Mage tower did this nicely. If you were skilled and geared you got it at release, if you were like me and pretty mediocre you waited til you outgeared it a bit but some of the fights were still hard and rewarding. To this day I use Incap Roar on my Druid, which I learned for MT to stop packs with multiple casts.
    Took me nearly 50 pulls and I can say I had to get better to do it.
    OT: what are basics? I know plenty of guys who raid 10/10H and 3/10M who I would argue don't know their basics.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    Mage tower did this nicely. If you were skilled and geared you got it at release, if you were like me and pretty mediocre you waited til you outgeared it a bit but some of the fights were still hard and rewarding. To this day I use Incap Roar on my Druid, which I learned for MT to stop packs with multiple casts.
    Took me nearly 50 pulls and I can say I had to get better to do it.
    OT: what are basics? I know plenty of guys who raid 10/10H and 3/10M who I would argue don't know their basics.
    Would say basic rotations ( not perfect but general spender, generator spells most classes have. Interupts, dispels, cc, etc.)

  20. #20
    Umm...doesn't anyone "duel" anymore?

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