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  1. #1

    Eternal ones and their "titan level power" joke

    How is it possible that eternal ones can be even close in power to Titans?

    Facts about Titans:
    -Titans are planet size (We have seen how Sargeras and Argus enormous were in Legion)
    - Sargeras was able to split the planets and hurt Azeroth with one shot of his sword

    Facts about Etrnal Ones:
    - Eternal ones are like building size or even smaller (a bit bigger than mortals like Denathrius )
    - Denathrius was easily beaten in raid,
    - Winter Queen wasn't able to stop Anduin and Sylvanas,
    - Archon beaten by one strike of Anduin's sword (yeah very powerful sword) but now imagine Anduin is taking down Aman'Thul...... xd

    Even Jailer who is allegedly Titan++ is insect to Aman'thul, Eonar or Argus. Aman'thul could easily beat him by stomping on him or rolling up newspaper and kill this little guy like a mean fly. What Jailer would do?? Says "kneel"... or maybe chains? against Argus, Aman'thul ? Even Tyrande empowered by Elune broke them easily. Where is the logic? For me the only way is: Titans>>>>>>>>>Eternal Ones (maybe Old Gods level)

  2. #2
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Size isn't really the "end all, be all" determination for relative power in WoW - we fight and destroy relative giant beings all the time, up to and including Titans like Aggramar and Argus. Also possible that the Eternal Ones can make themselves whatever relative size they wish to. That being said I don't really know if the Eternal Ones are really more powerful than the Titans would be on their own turf, so to speak, or subject to the restrictions of their home planes. A Titan in the Shadowlands might be at a severe disadvantage, and it's equally possible that an Eternal One could be similarly disadvantaged outside the realm of Death.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  3. #3
    Power is not only about aggression/ combat. In fact, most consider aggression/ battle to be the lowest form of demonstration of ones power (simple and basic).

    I won't go into all the different forms/ avenues power can take because I don't want to write a book here.

    I will go with one- the power of creation (making). I think the Titans power more has to do with battle/ aggression and the Eternal Ones are more about the power of creation.
    With power comes responsibility of using it wisely, maybe in those parts you mentioned- they didn't feel it was important enough to "drop the hammer" so to speak. Or maybe using the power has other consequences.

    I don't think those things happened because the Eternal Ones did not have the power to stop it, I think they chose not to act. Why? I suspect we will find out in 9.2 I also think they regret imprisoning the Jailer (he was once one of them) and now realize that it was probably a mistake. I also think we will learn that the Jailer had a somewhat good reason for doing what he did. (There is always some twisted logic in WoW).

    It's like the US vs. Vietnam or Afghanistan. The US could blow those countries to smithereens in a day or two if the US decided to. They don't, not because those countries are stronger than the US but because of the price that would come with wielding that power. That's why the US was dumb to even get into those, they knew they wouldn't drop the hammer, so they shouldn't have done it. You should never enter a battle with the thought of holding back, that's piss poor strat that was formulated by idiots. Any kid on the street knows that but five star generals don't? Haven't they ever read "Art of War?"

  4. #4
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    We have a wealth of information on the titans and what they have accomplished. Up until this expansion we had next to nothing about the eternal ones. Even half way through this expansion we still know very little about them.

    With that said, I find it hard to compare the 2 and make any kind of opinion.

    - Eternal ones are like building size or even smaller (a bit bigger than mortals like Denathrius )
    Titans are more powerful because they're bigger? Come on that's a weak argument, unless you really want to argue that size matters, but that might cause this thread to go off topic...

    - Denathrius was easily beaten in raid,
    Seriously? We've beat the old gods, burning legion etc all in a raid too.

    - Winter Queen wasn't able to stop Anduin and Sylvanas,
    - Archon beaten by one strike of Anduin's sword (yeah very powerful sword) but now imagine Anduin is taking down Aman'Thul...... xd
    I'm not saying eternal ones are/should be titan level power but you can't come to this conclusion based on 2 in game events.

    Even Jailer who is allegedly Titan++ is insect to Aman'thul, Eonar or Argus. Aman'thul could easily beat him by stomping on him or rolling up newspaper and kill this little guy like a mean fly. What Jailer would do?? Says "kneel"... or maybe chains? against Argus, Aman'thul ? Even Tyrande empowered by Elune broke them easily. Where is the logic? For me the only way is: Titans>>>>>>>>>Eternal Ones (maybe Old Gods level)
    Sorry but this is all speculative, theory crafting non sense.

    I agree it's hard to see & understand the eternal ones being at a titan level kind of power and that's mainly because we know nothing about them and they pretty much didn't exist until shadowlands.

  5. #5
    What is true is that we've had a lot of emphasis on how Titans are superior to us. Everything is done to make them actually look like our makers.

    As for the Eternal ones, they serve a different purpose in the narrative. The only indication that they are truly powerful is that they are said to be equals to the Titans.

    But all things considered, we defeated Argus with power borrowed from boosted artifacts and the Pantheon. We defeated Denathrius with gear and powers borrowed from his own plane. I think, given the right tools, we could beat a Titan the same way we defeated Denathrius.

  6. #6
    Could eternal ones be nearly as necessary as the concept of there always being a lich king?

    Not in the sense of what they are as an individual power, but the sway they have over what they do influence, and the potential misconduct that comes from the wrong individuals seeking the throne (maldraxxus)

    Eternal ones started from the bottom as a soul but with noone before them having organized an afterlife to go to??? Titans started from the top (as I see it) and shaped capability for life, but the concept of an afterlife probably wasn't even on their radar at that point.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    We have a wealth of information on the titans and what they have accomplished. Up until this expansion we had next to nothing about the eternal ones. Even half way through this expansion we still know very little about them.

    With that said, I find it hard to compare the 2 and make any kind of opinion.



    Titans are more powerful because they're bigger? Come on that's a weak argument, unless you really want to argue that size matters, but that might cause this thread to go off topic...



    Seriously? We've beat the old gods, burning legion etc all in a raid too.



    I'm not saying eternal ones are/should be titan level power but you can't come to this conclusion based on 2 in game events.



    Sorry but this is all speculative, theory crafting non sense.

    I agree it's hard to see & understand the eternal ones being at a titan level kind of power and that's mainly because we know nothing about them and they pretty much didn't exist until shadowlands.
    We haven't actually fought anyone Titan level except Aggramar and Argus. It took multiple of us(lore never specifies) and in the case of Argus the help of the Titans themselves. Old gods are somewhere between keepers and titans as they're stronger than the keepers individually(2-3 could take on an old god though as they had in lore) so claiming we've killed those glorified sperm cells doesn't say much.

    However what you neglected to bring up to demolish a lot of what the OP is saying would be that it wasn't "Anduin" but rather the jailer inside of him and empowering him and technically none of the cases he mentioned were a straight up fight. The winter queen got distracted thinking her sigil was safe but never fought him or Sylvanas. Kyrestria got blindsided/ambushed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Could eternal ones be nearly as necessary as the concept of there always being a lich king?

    Not in the sense of what they are as an individual power, but the sway they have over what they do influence, and the potential misconduct that comes from the wrong individuals seeking the throne (maldraxxus)

    Eternal ones started from the bottom as a soul but with noone before them having organized an afterlife to go to??? Titans started from the top (as I see it) and shaped capability for life, but the concept of an afterlife probably wasn't even on their radar at that point.
    Ummmm I'm pretty sure they've said they were created by the First Ones actually. Even if they weren't they most certainly were NOT souls before. Most of Ardenweald existed before souls came if you see the story told when you join them. The original Stonewright was not a soul although the current one was, but the other wielders of the amulets in Revendreth were all created by Denathrius. The Kyrian are a little more ambiguous as we haven't heard from all of the Paragons, but it actually seems like most of them were souls(Kyrestria was not however). Maldraxus is also sketchy, but the Primus at a minimum was not a soul. The Margraves might have been, but seeing as how warring they are now, there could have been coups historically so those in power when we arrive more than likely were much like KT.

  8. #8
    1. I have a theory that the Eternals Ones tied themselves to their covenants, which is why the Bastion collapses at the death of the Archon. The Eternal Alone is now too weak due to drought

    2. We never fight with full-fledged Titans. Agrammar was an avatar and Argus did not reach full strength.

    3. We fought the Old Gods when they were weakened. The Chronicle clearly states that if C'tun regained all his strength, no one would be able to defeat him. And we defeated N'zoth with a stsper weapon.

  9. #9
    Honestly, the Eternal Ones are one of the most laughable "high power NPCs" in Warcraft. Not only seem they to be incredibly weak in comparison, but they're incredibly dumb on top of that. I think only the Primus has shown at least some qualities, the Winter Queen and the Archon are beyond ridiculous and helpless. Denathrius is okayish as he was depicted as a villain we beat in the first raid. But the two ladies? Laughable, absolutely laughable.

    I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind can say that Zovaal is rivaling Sargeras in power or that the Eternal Ones are the same level as Titans like Aggramar or Eonar - just lol.
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  10. #10
    Where would you even get enough paper to make a Titan-sized newspaper?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destructor View Post
    How is it possible that eternal ones can be even close in power to Titans?

    Facts about Titans:
    -Titans are planet size (We have seen how Sargeras and Argus enormous were in Legion)
    - Sargeras was able to split the planets and hurt Azeroth with one shot of his sword

    Facts about Etrnal Ones:
    - Eternal ones are like building size or even smaller (a bit bigger than mortals like Denathrius )
    - Denathrius was easily beaten in raid,
    - Winter Queen wasn't able to stop Anduin and Sylvanas,
    - Archon beaten by one strike of Anduin's sword (yeah very powerful sword) but now imagine Anduin is taking down Aman'Thul...... xd

    Even Jailer who is allegedly Titan++ is insect to Aman'thul, Eonar or Argus. Aman'thul could easily beat him by stomping on him or rolling up newspaper and kill this little guy like a mean fly. What Jailer would do?? Says "kneel"... or maybe chains? against Argus, Aman'thul ? Even Tyrande empowered by Elune broke them easily. Where is the logic? For me the only way is: Titans>>>>>>>>>Eternal Ones (maybe Old Gods level)
    I've had the theory that the Eternal Ones are just another group of Titans, and Titans are a race, is created by the First Ones.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Not only seem they to be incredibly weak in comparison, but they're incredibly dumb on top of that.
    That's because the plot relies entirely on the stupidity of these characters. If you can't convincingly write intelligent characters, you can always just make everyone surrounding them dumber.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  13. #13
    "ThEY ArE ThE SIZe OF PlANETs"

    Even tho Argus can end all of existence in 1 go, the Heroes of Azeroth when amp'd with enough borrowed power can destroy Old Gods and even battle Titans, and Zovaal with the Sepulcher's knowledge can unmake the entire WoW Cosmos and reshape it in his own image.

    None of them are "planet sized", but sure. Let's make everything about Warcraft's power "size" based. Cause that makes sense...

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    Wanna know which franchises destroy this argument? DC, Marvel, Dragon Ball, Madoka Magica, Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Honestly, the Eternal Ones are one of the most laughable "high power NPCs" in Warcraft. Not only seem they to be incredibly weak in comparison, but they're incredibly dumb on top of that. I think only the Primus has shown at least some qualities, the Winter Queen and the Archon are beyond ridiculous and helpless. Denathrius is okayish as he was depicted as a villain we beat in the first raid. But the two ladies? Laughable, absolutely laughable.

    I have no idea how anyone with a clear mind can say that Zovaal is rivaling Sargeras in power or that the Eternal Ones are the same level as Titans like Aggramar or Eonar - just lol.
    I find this funny, when you consider Sargeras and Elune are also fucking morons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destructor View Post
    How is it possible that eternal ones can be even close in power to Titans?

    Facts about Titans:
    -Titans are planet size (We have seen how Sargeras and Argus enormous were in Legion)
    - Sargeras was able to split the planets and hurt Azeroth with one shot of his sword

    Facts about Etrnal Ones:
    - Eternal ones are like building size or even smaller (a bit bigger than mortals like Denathrius )
    - Denathrius was easily beaten in raid,
    - Winter Queen wasn't able to stop Anduin and Sylvanas,
    - Archon beaten by one strike of Anduin's sword (yeah very powerful sword) but now imagine Anduin is taking down Aman'Thul...... xd

    Even Jailer who is allegedly Titan++ is insect to Aman'thul, Eonar or Argus. Aman'thul could easily beat him by stomping on him or rolling up newspaper and kill this little guy like a mean fly. What Jailer would do?? Says "kneel"... or maybe chains? against Argus, Aman'thul ? Even Tyrande empowered by Elune broke them easily. Where is the logic? For me the only way is: Titans>>>>>>>>>Eternal Ones (maybe Old Gods level)
    The Eternal Ones are NOT building size. What the fuck???

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    I find this funny, when you consider Sargeras and Elune are also fucking morons.
    Elune definitely is (thanks @Shadowlands), Sargeras isn't.
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  15. #15
    What makes Sargeras not an idiot?

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    The dude literally believed he defeated the Light prior to 7.3, only to be proven wrong horribly. He also spent the whole time in Antorus focusing on Azeroth while the Heroes were destroying his command on Argus. Dude's an actual dumbass for that.

  16. #16
    All I will say is that Sylvanas was stronger then Denathrius.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    All I will say is that Sylvanas was stronger then Denathrius.
    Why do you think that is, Strawman? Almost like she was directly powered by the Maw and Zovaal.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    He also spent the whole time in Antorus focusing on Azeroth while the Heroes were destroying his command on Argus. Dude's an actual dumbass for that.
    Not really. Corrupting Azeroth would have meant he won. Why would he need anything else with a second Fel-Titan on his side? Pretty sure it was said somewhere (Illidan novel?) that most of the known universe is dead, thanks to the Legion.

    You're also assuming he even knew we were in Antorus.

  19. #19
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    WoW's big-bad power creep has gotten so absurd it's transcended Dragon Ball.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Why do you think that is, Strawman? Almost like she was directly powered by the Maw and Zovaal.
    Isn't that the case with at least half the bosses in SoD? Also doesn't change the fact that Sylvanas is stronger then Denathrius.

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