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  1. #81
    High Overlord vincink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    sure, those liberals and leftist's exist out there, but they haven't been present here.... or at least haven't been as active in the conversation as those who, again, want to either ignore these sexual abuse allegations all together or think any attempt to fix the problems are just hollow virtue signaling and therefore a waste of time even trying to do something about it. or, take it a step further and say any attempt to fix the problem is worse than the problem itself.
    Skimming through the replies, I have seen no replies outright saying that allegations of sexual abuse should be ignored. The person you originally quoted, Kalocy Jim, was remarking on their frustration about how Blizzard is using such empty words in the publicity. That does not mean Kalocy Jim was suggesting that the sexual allegations should be dismissed. To read that into what that person was saying is to be dishonest about what they said. That is why I said in an earlier reply that these conversations end up being two sides that talk past each other by accusing the other side of saying things they did not say.
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    no, I'm not obligated to consider the complete dismissal of trying to fix the toxic work environment at Blizzard with anything besides the same complete dismissal.
    I didn't remove the possibility of firing employees. I did not dismiss the claim that Blizzard has a toxic work environment in some places or possibly everywhere. What I said in my first reply quoting you is that we should not be quick to jump to conclusions about what should be done before the facts are known. Personally, I think those who were fired did do wrong. But if my conclusion or yours are used to enact justice, how do could I ever possibly know if that justice (yours or mine) was right if I am judge, jury, and executioner and I do not wait for all the facts to be laid out clearly and debated? Those who enact a punish so quickly are to be feared the most. So that includes you and me if we settle on conclusions so quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    like, I'm not interested in trying to meet people in the middle who clearly have no intention of doing so themselves. forget that. I have better things to waste my time doing.
    It's not about meeting in the middle. It's about find the facts of the case and enacting justice according to the wrongs committed according to the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    say nothing of the fact this isn't a debate about left vs right.... this is about the very obvious toxic work environment at a business that needs to be fixed. I'm totally on board with keeping left Vs right politics out of this, tell that to the others...
    Unfortunately, it does end up becoming a left vs right discussion because in our highly polarized world, we all judge situations of injustice according to our preconceived (biased) ideologies. Presently, those ideologies align with ideologies of the left and right. And this where again the "talking past each other" comes into play: I am in fact arguing that we should recognize when our biases (ideologies) get in the way and push them out of the way so that we can see as objectively as we can. I don't think you and I ultimately disagree, but I do disagree with your approach. Choose to wait when you don't know everything.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Some are HR or adjacent leads who were likely to be found to not have done enough, others like Mcgree who are being Scrubbed from all games don’t have public info out on what they did but are guaranteed to be involved.
    In the state of California sexual harassment is a serious offence. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation? If there were people that physically or mentally hurt others shouldn't they be prosecuted? On the other hand I've seen videos where people called McCree a sexual abuser with no evidence presented. If the lawsuit is settled and lets say McCree is not named as the guilty party any mention of him being involved is a ground for defamation lawsuit.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Bunch of words that in the end mean nothing.
    Please list a couple things you would do differently than what they implemented.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I've been "sexually harassed" by women at many jobs. I never reported it of course, because I'm the sex that isn't allowed to.
    That is false. Males can and do report harassment and the US government, at least, takes it seriously even if the employer does not.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #85
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I've been "sexually harassed" by women at many jobs. I never reported it of course, because I'm the sex that isn't allowed to.
    another reason why mad men is a good example as the video I linked showed some of it is women.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazozourus View Post
    In the state of California sexual harassment is a serious offence. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation? If there were people that physically or mentally hurt others shouldn't they be prosecuted? On the other hand I've seen videos where people called McCree a sexual abuser with no evidence presented. If the lawsuit is settled and lets say McCree is not named as the guilty party any mention of him being involved is a ground for defamation lawsuit.
    That’s between the victims and there harassers there’s no way for us to know unless something becomes public either through the 10 unnamed people in the lawsuit coming to light or individual victims coming out to talk about it.

    Your also right there would be grounds for a defamation lawsuit if they are completely guilt free but the fact that they aren’t seeking one or speaking out in there defence kinda tells it all.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #86
    Is it true that Jeffrey Epstein had Bobby Kotick's name in his Rolodex?

  7. #87
    Blizzard should commit to making good games first.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    I've been "sexually harassed" by women at many jobs. I never reported it of course, because I'm the sex that isn't allowed to.
    Oh, BS. You absolutely can and should report that harassment.

    Investigators can do a lot of things to help. One thing they can't do is read your mind. They can't do anything about harassment they weren't told of, any more than police can investigate a burglary you didn't bother to report.

    Frankly, I think you're lying about the harassment for attention and to be a troll.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is false. Males can and do report harassment and the US government, at least, takes it seriously even if the employer does not.
    Eh, really depends on which part of the government we're talking about. While some certain pockets of the government and/or agencies may take such things more seriously, most of it comes down to optics and office politics. Again, it's very akin to the situation at Blizz: the claim has to make it through the HR departments or the equivalent chains of command, and this process is where claims can go to die or just fall through the cracks. This could be due to legitimate 'bad people' with their own agendas being part of this process, could be the claim process being flooded with benign/frivolous claims to where the system get desensitized, could just be bad management of the claims process to where the claims just get lost, and this is only a few of the things I've actually seen and heard while employed by the US government.

    If we're talking the lowest level grunts, this is probably where you'll get the most honest enforcement of the rules as there's no political attachments and such employees are fairly disposable. However, the higher you work your way up and the more politically motivated/connected the claims become, the rule set changes based upon politics and optics.

    I actually have an example of such a scenario occurring while I was in the military, but concerning the specific details I'm still not allowed to disclose. However, the general idea of what happened was females were exerting power via sexual misconduct in order to get what they wanted, and this extended pretty far along the chain of command in very bad ways. Honestly, it was pretty cut and dry what happened, and some even admitted their wrongdoings. However, despite the level of their misconduct, they were reassigned rather than court martial or expelled for two main reasons: their political connections, and... well, let's just say due to their positions and what they were supposed to represent due to their gender, they would've completely destroyed the positive narrative that was being spun around them, so for the sake of the narrative the entire case was kept on the down-low.

    While I'd like to say the above story is extremely uncommon, it's only uncommon in how severe the case really is but not the result. When a government body or agency begins to worry more about optics and politics, the rules just become guidelines that can be bent. As is the general case with a government agency, the optics/politics don't matter much at the lower level, but they matter a great deal towards the top of the food chain.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-09-28 at 06:44 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Eh, really depends on which part of the government we're talking about.
    No it doesn't. The same government agencies that deal with sexual harassment cover both genders. It doesn't require a greater burden of proof, and if your company doesn't take your claim seriously you can go to the government agency directly. Government in this context was talking about the agencies that deal with employee reports and not when the government is the direct employer.

    This is easily verifiable by looking at how they have males as victims in statistics. A lower amount but it is still there. Which means that you can report and they do take action when needed.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-09-28 at 08:10 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #91
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    Oh great, Blizzard is going to hire a feminazi and turn their company 180 degrees from a frat attitude to "sit down when you piss, man!"

  12. #92
    soon you'll get fired from blizzard for looking at a female coworker

  13. #93
    How many workers did they have to harass and abuse to post this statement? Dis they had to drug some women to get the work done? Will their pro torture directives be heading this projects which will “improve” their roten company with continued worker interrogations?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    soon you'll get fired from blizzard for looking at a female coworker
    say youre trans and its uno reverse card. Gotta play the meta.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Why would I pay someone who actually wants to wash my windshield to do it?

    Both sides agreed to this sum by the way.
    Apparently, the amount is capped by statute, not negotiated by both parties.

    https://twitter.com/HoegLaw/status/1442646454175141896

    This is outside of my wheelhouse, and I don't have time to dig into this to learn more, but that's what Hoeg posted.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Oh great, Blizzard is going to hire a feminazi and turn their company 180 degrees from a frat attitude to "sit down when you piss, man!"
    dude, stop posting your fetishes.

  17. #97
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Don’t wanna sound bluntly but I don’t know if company’s scandal related things should be posted here. What purpose does it serve? I feel bad for people that suffered. However, It happened and time cannot be changed. It will just upset some people or even it will be something for others to laugh about. Being totally honest I don’t even read it because I just don’t care. I subscribed to game I enjoy playing and that’s about it.
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-09-28 at 09:30 PM.

  18. #98
    Seeing a lot of fedora tipping going on in here from people who have no idea what they're talking about and seem to get their industry information from blatantly wrong always male defending usual suspects sites.

  19. #99
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazozourus View Post
    In the state of California sexual harassment is a serious offence. Shouldn't there be a criminal investigation? If there were people that physically or mentally hurt others shouldn't they be prosecuted? On the other hand I've seen videos where people called McCree a sexual abuser with no evidence presented. If the lawsuit is settled and lets say McCree is not named as the guilty party any mention of him being involved is a ground for defamation lawsuit.
    McCree was fired from the company, any other reason Blizzard would fire him? There is an ongoing criminal investigation going on right now this settlement is only for one of the 4 investigations/ Lawsuits into Blizzard... The California state case is still ongoing, and the law is not quite working like that it's a real slow road and sexual harassment is not easy to prove especially with the company activity destroying proof...

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    There is an ongoing criminal investigation going on right now this settlement is only for one of the 4 investigations/ Lawsuits into Blizzard.
    Civil. All of the investigations into Blizzard are currently civil in nature and not criminal.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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