Would you play the game WITHOUT LFR?

[potis]

Imagine actually thinking "basically no one" raids outside of lfr. Lol.

Because numbers dont lie, and following numbers, "Basically no one" raided outside LFR, which is why it was introduced, and when that number reaches 50-60% active players on WoW active periods (aka expansion launch), you understand how its different.

Its the same reasoning with Naxx in WOTLK, only 10.000 people entered Naxx in Vanilla or so, and the game had already hit like 7-8mil players by then.

People dont seem to understand that yes, maybe 100K-200K (example number) players were raiding in early Cata, the rest 11.8mil reported active players?

[iinverse]

People dont seem to understand that yes, maybe 100K-200K (example number) players were raiding in early Cata, the rest 11.8mil reported active players?

wowprogress:
Blackwing Descent
Magmaw: 71186


It seems that one million were raiding for sure.

[potis]

wowprogress:
Blackwing Descent
Magmaw: 71186


It seems that one million were raiding for sure.

Thats 70k o.O , even so i expect wowprogress to have skewed data so long after with inactive characters etc, but at the same time, my point stands.

[iinverse]

Thats 70k o.O , even so i expect wowprogress to have skewed data so long after with inactive characters etc, but at the same time, my point stands.

70k guilds/raidgroups (multiply it by 10-25).
And its is pretty accurate, I remember something the same during Cata.

[Hotmail]

As someone who started playing in TBC, I've always seen raiding as a reward that must be worked towards. So yes, LFR doesn't affect me at all.

[potis]

70k guilds/raidgroups (multiply it by 10-25).
And its is pretty accurate, I remember something the same during Cata.

Ah, brain fart, guilds, the number sounds more logical but probably skewed slightly cause pugging world,even so thats around 8-10% of the reported population then, which still makes it correct, 90% didnt enter a raid.

So yes, "basically no one", but people seem to forget how massive WoW was/is at expansion launches and how things arent what they seem.

[Sondrelk]

Ah, brain fart, guilds, the number sounds more logical but probably skewed slightly cause pugging world,even so thats around 8-10% of the reported population then, which still makes it correct, 90% didnt enter a raid.

So yes, "basically no one", but people seem to forget how massive WoW was/is at expansion launches and how things arent what they seem.

It also bears mention to ask what constitutes a raider. Does it mean someone who has completed at least one full raid, or someone who has defeated a single boss and moved on? Does it count if you have a guild that raids only deprecated raids? Guilds who only raid old raids socially? If an RP guild runs Castle Nathria as an RP event on Normal, does that count as a raiding guild?

71k is not a small number of guilds for sure, and it is a sizeable amount of the player population, but given how important raids are not just for the narrative, but for the game as a progression I can see how only having maybe 10-20% of total active players engage with it would make it fairly low priority as far as gameplay goes.

[potis]

It also bears mention to ask what constitutes a raider. Does it mean someone who has completed at least one full raid, or someone who has defeated a single boss and moved on? Does it count if you have a guild that raids only deprecated raids? Guilds who only raid old raids socially? If an RP guild runs Castle Nathria as an RP event on Normal, does that count as a raiding guild?

71k is not a small number of guilds for sure, and it is a sizeable amount of the player population, but given how important raids are not just for the narrative, but for the game as a progression I can see how only having maybe 10-20% of total active players engage with it would make it fairly low priority as far as gameplay goes.

It would, but despite people not like hearing it, raiding IS the game itself, its literally the genre of the game.

And 71k guilds is a decent number compared to before, i am pretty sure ICC and pugging/gear score showed many people that raiding wasnt an unreachable thing, but even so you can see the decline of like 25-30% before the last boss of the raid.

But when their MOP reports showed if i recall either 52 or 58% raid participation in LFR, you can see how its a success, 8-10% of players, up to almost 60%.

But if people assume that means go against the whole game genre/design, because you dont care to raid harder difficulties, you are simply being delusional and you should simply unsub when you reach the end and play something else.

[Sondrelk]

It would, but despite people not like hearing it, raiding IS the game itself, its literally the genre of the game.

And 71k guilds is a decent number compared to before, i am pretty sure ICC and pugging/gear score showed many people that raiding wasnt an unreachable thing, but even so you can see the decline of like 25-30% before the last boss of the raid.

But when their MOP reports showed if i recall either 52 or 58% raid participation in LFR, you can see how its a success, 8-10% of players, up to almost 60%.

But if people assume that means go against the whole game genre/design, because you dont care to raid harder difficulties, you are simply being delusional and you should simply unsub when you reach the end and play something else.

Well this would be not just after the NM/HC split in raiding, which made getting into raids much more approachable for the average player, but this is also the first boss of the first raid, if there was ever a boss you would expect to have a bloated engagement metric it would be that one.

The amount of guild show how many guilds defeated that one boss, not how many kept going, not just the rest of the raid, but raiding consistently for the rest of the expansion or at least most of it.

[potis]

Well this would be not just after the NM/HC split in raiding, which made getting into raids much more approachable for the average player, but this is also the first boss of the first raid, if there was ever a boss you would expect to have a bloated engagement metric it would be that one.

The amount of guild show how many guilds defeated that one boss, not how many kept going, not just the rest of the raid, but raiding consistently for the rest of the expansion or at least most of it.

Eh you can check by checking the numbers, hence why i said 25% participation drop before the last boss, it goes from 71k to 49K, up to 64k for Firelands down again, and repeats this way.

Although its impressive that people do come back to raid a bit, but they simply dont finish the raid itself :P

[JABoyle3875]

1. Gotta love your bias against it, you are about as subtle as a sledgehammer.
2. I don't play anymore, but I will say that without LFR being introduced with Cataclysm, I doubt I would have played as long as I did. (I gave up on the game after the steaming horsecrap sandwich known as SL came out).

I certainly wouldn't have completed the cloak legendary on 3 different characters in MoP. And yes, I know this makes me the lowest of scum in the eyes of elitists tryhards, but LFR kept my interest in the game going quite a bit simply because I could see a version of the endgame content on my schedule, which is best described as volatile. I've never had the skill/dedication to try and mythic raid, and TBH the last time I raided a raid when it was the current raid was way back in ICC. For the longest time I've had obligations that could come up at any moment and I've felt it wrong to commit to raiding X days a week for Y hours when I could literally be pulled away in seconds, screwing over my group.

So without LFR? I'd never come back...and what slays me about the anti LFR group is the ignorance in which they live - without LFR raids would suck even more, because Blizz would not put as much effort into something that only a VERY small % of people would ever see. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite their face...

[Deneios]

It would, but despite people not like hearing it, raiding IS the game itself, its literally the genre of the game.

And 71k guilds is a decent number compared to before, i am pretty sure ICC and pugging/gear score showed many people that raiding wasnt an unreachable thing, but even so you can see the decline of like 25-30% before the last boss of the raid.

But when their MOP reports showed if i recall either 52 or 58% raid participation in LFR, you can see how its a success, 8-10% of players, up to almost 60%.

But if people assume that means go against the whole game genre/design, because you dont care to raid harder difficulties, you are simply being delusional and you should simply unsub when you reach the end and play something else.

That is partly due MoP didnt have alternative gearing path after heroic Dungeons.
The steps in MoP was dungeons->hc dungeons->lfr->normal raid-> hc raid. So no other low effort options except for LFR

[Ryzeth]

God why did you get unbanned.

What is with the handful of people on this forums that feel the need to make 5 shitty threads every day, and not even post in after the initial post.

[Unlimited Power]

Kinda depends on what alternatives exist. Since I currently raid heroic with my guild on a weekly basis, I've little to no interest in running LFR.

I used it to great effect in Cata, MoP and WoD when my guild was dead though.

But when outdoor world content exists that provides better gear I won't bother regardless - Some examples being the gear Tanaan Jungle, the vendors on Broken Isles, Argus and Nazjatar as well as the gear you could get from Visions in patch 8.3 and the gear you can get from Korthia now.

Why bother with LFR when the gear is absolutely trash and the experience worse than simply looting treasures and killing rares anyway?

[iinverse]

Why bother with LFR when the gear is absolutely trash

Sockets of domination.

[AcidicSyn]

Can't say I'd be affected by the removal of LFR (which is by no sane definition tourist mode given how often folks get vote kicked for watching cinematics)

What I would welcome however is an ACTUAL tourist mode, a solo experience where you raid with NPCs purely for the purpose of completing quests and seeing the story. No loot drops (though xmog, mounts, pets, and other cosmetics would be cool).

Bonus: Tune it like proving grounds, make it a decent enough way to practice rotations and getting out of bad stuff. I make a lot of alts, not all of them I take seriously, they'd appreciate something like this.

[hecpercu]

Im too busy with new world, diablo 2,and ffxiv.
Wow in 2021 LOL.
Let it go, let it die already, stop punching the dead horse.
Wow is dead beyond redeption.

[renatompassos]

I'd play a lot less, since it fits my time constraints perfectly and allows me to enjoy the full glory of the game's strongest feature.

[Florena]

I don't play anymore (for reasons not related to LFR either way) but fully support its inclusion.

If the raids in the game were disconnected from the main story, I wouldn't mind if the raid stories were only accessible through organized raiding. I don't mind for example, that Ulduar had a secondary story only explored through hard modes.

But the story threads in WoW tend to start in quests and dungeons, which are easily accessible, and then often continued into dungeons, with major plotlines concluding in raids. So long as this is the case, I support queueable lfr so anyone who has been following the casually accessable story through quests and dungeons can see the endings to these threads themselves. Looking up cutscenes on youtube is not the same as doing it in game.

If raids were more isolated self contained stories, rather than the climaxes to major plot lines, then I wouldn't mind if LFR went away.

[HateTrain]

I haven't entered LFR since probably Legion or something. Doesn't affect me if it exists or not but if it makes some people happy, why would anyone remove it?

Because some miserable dookies can't have fun unless someone ISN'T having fun.