Dwarves discussion thread

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I have remarked that there were several discussion threads to talk about the various elven races or subraces, but not about the other races of Warcraft so I decided to rectify this by making this general discussion thread about the dwarves.

Here you can talk about anything you think, want or like or dislike about the dwarves, their design, their history, their culture, their tech or magic, etc..

You can post design ideas if you want, scenario or culture ideas too.

[Eazy]

The elves threads had a point at least, this has none...

So let me start - are dwarves the strongest race canonically in the Alliance?

[DatToffer]

I think the elves thread are more about lore claims and customization demands, so I guess uh...

If Wildhammer got to be their own Allied race, how would you imagine their racial Traits, Mount and Armor ?

I personally would imagine things like a Thunder form, a Gryphon call similar to flight master whistle, a Resistance to Nature damages and an Increased speed on flying mount.

[Divada]

So let me start - are dwarves the strongest race canonically in the Alliance?

Do we have any feats in the lore to gauge strength? We know they're incredibly resilient per lore but strength? Not sure. Definitely stronger than NE, humans, Gnomes, and maybe your average Draenei. Worgen might be stronger?

As for ideas, bring back treasure finding please. It was a lot of fun. And I'd like to see the writers expand beyond dwarves being silly sidekicks for humans, please.

[Aceofblood]

I'd like dwarves to have access to druid class. Maybe a Wildhammer sub race to justify this. I'd think they'd have some awesome druid forms. Gryphon flight form, Ram travel form, Snow leopard kitty? , A Boar form for tank?

[The Stormbringer]

I think the elves thread are more about lore claims and customization demands, so I guess uh...

If Wildhammer got to be their own Allied race, how would you imagine their racial Traits, Mount and Armor ?

I personally would imagine things like a Thunder form, a Gryphon call similar to flight master whistle, a Resistance to Nature damages and an Increased speed on flying mount.

How about a 'Throw Stormhammer' ability that they all get? Ranged damage with an interrupt or brief stun, maybe?

[Caperfin]

I'd like dwarves to have access to druid class. Maybe a Wildhammer sub race to justify this. I'd think they'd have some awesome druid forms. Gryphon flight form, Ram travel form, Snow leopard kitty? , A Boar form for tank?

A boar form as a tank sounds awesome! would snow leopard be feral dps form?

[loras]

The elves threads had a point at least, this has none...

So let me start - are dwarves the strongest race canonically in the Alliance?

The worgen outclass every other physically i believe, but the draenei are formidable as well.
Relative to size it is definitely dwarves.

[Shadowtwili]

I DEMAND FROSTBORN AND EARTHEN CUSTOMISATION OPTIONS FOR DWARVES.

WILDHAMMER DWARVES AS A ALLIED RACE MAKES NO SENSE, SAME FOR DARK IRON.

ALL DWARVES TOGETHER ARE THE KINGDOM OF KHAZ MODAN.

I will not be taking any comments.

[DatToffer]

I'd like dwarves to have access to druid class. Maybe a Wildhammer sub race to justify this. I'd think they'd have some awesome druid forms. Gryphon flight form, Ram travel form, Snow leopard kitty? , A Boar form for tank?

Boar is nice but what's wrong with a bear ? They are pretty iconic to dwarves after all. It could have a small barrel around the neck like those mountain rescue dogs, lol !

I remember drawing a bear dwarf form once, gonna need to find it back.

How about a 'Throw Stormhammer' ability that they all get? Ranged damage with an interrupt or brief stun, maybe?

Oh yeah, a small stun would be dope.

[jellmoo]

The elves threads had a point at least, this has none...

So let me start - are dwarves the strongest race canonically in the Alliance?

Do you mean physically or militarily?

Physically, probably not. They do have a very low centre of gravity which would make them tough as hell to shove, but they'd lack the body mass to be amongst the strongest. Worgen and Draenei are simply too much larger overall. Where I think the Dwarves could get the win is in muscular endurance. A Worgen or Draenei might be able to life more weight once, for example, but I'm pretty sure a Dwarf could do a ton more reps with less weight.

Militarily is a tough one given we don't have a great idea about racial populations. But they certainly have the most defensible capital. I'd argue that the combined forces of the Bronzebeards, WIldhammers and Dark Irons might actually be the most complete fighting force in the Alliance. It combines remarkable riflemen, different types of magic, air superiority, siege weapons and artillery and top notch infantry. On land, they might be unmatched in the Alliance, with battles at sea being their one shortcoming.

[Falkeshall]

Hands down, my favourite race. Great bunch o' lads.

[Unikali]

I have always considered them to be the strongest

[Maljinwo]

Dwarves are the strongest lads and lasses on the Alliance

Physical strength? Check
Mechanical prowess? Check
Magical knowledge? Dark Iron say hi
Connection to nature? Wildhammer on the case
Weapon and Armor? All the yes
Beer? yes
Capital City that has never been conquered? Yes

Their only downside is that Blizzard has always focused on Humans and maybe elves, as such, Dwarves never had a shining moment.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

So let me start - are dwarves the strongest race canonically in the Alliance?

Each Dwarven kingdom by itself could make war with any other nation in the setting and have a good chance of winning. All three kingdoms by themselves are a superpower unto themselves.

• The Three Dwarven Kingdoms were not wrecked during any war. Still have their populations intact (whereas most Horde races are small tribes of hunter gatherers, and most other Alliance races are refugees of ruined kingdoms).

• Can build automatons, and the Dark Iron dwarves can employ fire elementals, further bolstering their numbers with strong and expendable forces.

• The Dwarven make use of tanks and machineguns that would rip most other militaries and fortresses to shreds. The physical strength of an Orc or a Tauren counts for nothing when they have grapefruit sized holes in their chest.

• Has airship technology that enables rapid deployment and withdraw. Can also conduct bombing campaigns.

• Wildhammer Dwarves breed griffins to ride, again allows for fast attacks that few can defend against.

The only race that really has the Dwarves beat are the Draenei with their spaceships, shield generators, and death star lasers.

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Physical strength? Check
Mechanical prowess? Check

Draenei and Worgen are physically stronger. Draenei are also far more advanced than the Dwarves. Gnomes also invented nuclear technology and teleporters.

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battles at sea being their one shortcoming.

Don't need sea ships when you have airships that go faster, can fly over land, can fly high enough to be out of reach of the enemy, have machineguns that shoot down anyone who does try to approach, and can drop bombs on anything below.

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The worgen outclass every other physically i believe, but the draenei are formidable as well.
Relative to size it is definitely dwarves.

IIRC Draenei are physically stronger but Worgen are definitely more agile.

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I'd like dwarves to have access to druid class. Maybe a Wildhammer sub race to justify this. I'd think they'd have some awesome druid forms. Gryphon flight form, Ram travel form, Snow leopard kitty? , A Boar form for tank?

Druids were always a Night Elf exclusive class. Making them available to the Tauren and the Trolls didn't really make sense, IMO. Nor does it make sense for Dwarves to know them. Besides, Dwarves already have plenty of unique stuff, like their engineering, their runesmiths, their Griffin riders, etc.

[jellmoo]

Don't need sea ships when you have airships that go faster, can fly over land, can fly high enough to be out of reach of the enemy, have machineguns that shoot down anyone who does try to approach, and can drop bombs on anything below.

We kinda run into the issue of real world warfare versus fantasy warfare here. In the real world, Navy wins wars, largely because that's how you move your troops and supplies. A ship can carry more and travel far greater distances without needing to refuel than any aircraft ever could.

In magicland, it's super hard to say since we don't really know what the limitations of airships are. But given that both the Horde and Alliance still use sea ships, and naval superiority was a huge talking point of the last war, I'd say that both sides still consider naval might to be of high importance when fighting a war.

[Dhrizzle]

Each Dwarven kingdom by itself could make war with any other nation in the setting and have a good chance of winning. All three kingdoms by themselves are a superpower unto themselves.

• The Three Dwarven Kingdoms were not wrecked during any war. Still have their populations intact (whereas most Horde races are small tribes of hunter gatherers, and most other Alliance races are refugees of ruined kingdoms).

• Can build automatons, and the Dark Iron dwarves can employ fire elementals, further bolstering their numbers with strong and expendable forces.

• The Dwarven make use of tanks and machineguns that would rip most other militaries and fortresses to shreds. The physical strength of an Orc or a Tauren counts for nothing when they have grapefruit sized holes in their chest.

• Has airship technology that enables rapid deployment and withdraw. Can also conduct bombing campaigns.

• Wildhammer Dwarves breed griffins to ride, again allows for fast attacks that few can defend against.

The only race that really has the Dwarves beat are the Draenei with their spaceships, shield generators, and death star lasers.

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Draenei and Worgen are physically stronger. Draenei are also far more advanced than the Dwarves. Gnomes also invented nuclear technology and teleporters.

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Don't need sea ships when you have airships that go faster, can fly over land, can fly high enough to be out of reach of the enemy, have machineguns that shoot down anyone who does try to approach, and can drop bombs on anything below.

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IIRC Draenei are physically stronger but Worgen are definitely more agile.

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Druids were always a Night Elf exclusive class. Making them available to the Tauren and the Trolls didn't really make sense, IMO. Nor does it make sense for Dwarves to know them. Besides, Dwarves already have plenty of unique stuff, like their engineering, their runesmiths, their Griffin riders, etc.

Let's not forget that dwarves are pretty much guaranteed to have gnomes as allies who, if they're kept focus, can work to nullify any advantages other races have in technology and applied magic.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

We kinda run into the issue of real world warfare versus fantasy warfare here. In the real world, Navy wins wars, largely because that's how you move your troops and supplies. A ship can carry more and travel far greater distances without needing to refuel than any aircraft ever could.

In magicland, it's super hard to say since we don't really know what the limitations of airships are. But given that both the Horde and Alliance still use sea ships, and naval superiority was a huge talking point of the last war, I'd say that both sides still consider naval might to be of high importance when fighting a war.

I'm going by logical applications of the lore. If we went by what the game showed then humans going up against 600 pound orcs and 1,000+ pounder cows in melee combat is somehow a standard tactic when logically it is stupid and the Alliance has no reason to do it when they have machineguns and laser beams.

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Alliance footmen vs Orc grunts is visually iconic but if it ever happened in the first place then the Alliance commanders screwed up. Worgen and Draenei are the only Alliance races that should be fighting Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren in melee combat, and that should be the protect the riflemen who would ideally gun down those monstrous races before they reached melee range.

[Dhrizzle]

Alliance footmen vs Orc grunts is visually iconic but if it ever happened in the first place then the Alliance commanders screwed up. Worgen and Draenei are the only Alliance races that should be fighting Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren in melee combat, and that should be the protect the riflemen who would ideally gun down those monstrous races before they reached melee range.

Maybe... humans are direct descendents of iron and stone giants created by a race of star gods so they may be harder than they appear.

[jellmoo]

I'm going by logical applications of the lore. If we went by what the game showed then humans going up against 600 pound orcs and 1,000+ pounder cows in melee combat is somehow a standard tactic when logically it is stupid and the Alliance has no reason to do it when they have machineguns and laser beams.

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Alliance footmen vs Orc grunts is visually iconic but if it ever happened in the first place then the Alliance commanders screwed up. Worgen and Draenei are the only Alliance races that should be fighting Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren in melee combat, and that should be the protect the riflemen.

Oh, you're absolutely not wrong. A single Tauren warrior should absolutely decimate an entire human squad. These things should utterly terrify them. Hell, even Forsaken should be an unstoppable ground force. Troops that don't need to eat or sleep? Feel limited amounts of pain? Don't need to breathe? Jeeeeezuz that would be a terrifying foe.

But I do think that the lore and visualized gameplay is not terribly consistent at all. They tend to just do whatever the story tells them to do at any given moment. In BfA, they made a huge deal about the importance of naval warfare. The fact that they were begging the Kul Tirans to join up in order to offset the advantage that the Zandalari gave demonstrates it. That being said, the next faction conflict we get might just gloss all over it and say that aerial superiority is key. It makes these types of discussions really hard to have because that lack of consistency gives us little to no baseline to work with, hence why sometimes we use real world examples, even though that's a super nebulous at best comparison.