Several emotes removed in recent PTR build

[Doffen]

Player characters. There was this video on one of the discord channels showing some guy unequipping his female dark iron dwarf, but when he's about to remove pants, a window pops up saying: "Removing this item is prohibited on female characters."

So now I'm here asking, for anyone who's on PTR if any of this is true.

Just checked on my lightforged draenei, I could take her pants off allright. Must be a joke. They couldnt possibly be this dense.

That it would be for female only.

[starstationprofm]

Read the famitsu article (google translate is good enough to get the general idea), because they mention the gender ratios for several games and most of them are indeed male dominated. MHF(Monster Hunter Freedom) had about a 9-1 male to female ratio, DDON(Dragon's Dogma Online) was about 8-2, and FF14 was about 7-3 (with there being an exception in the Korean region, in which over women account for over 50% of the playerbase).

The interview even makes mention of the other developers in the interview being surprised by the FF14 ratio. It follows up by mentioning the PSO2 ratio, though I'm not sure which direction it is skewing in there because I'm relying on google translate to read it.

Seriously, just go read the article. https://www.famitsu.com/news/201707/...81.html?page=2

I'd recommend using Chrome to read it, since the translate option is included as part of the browser. The question about the male to female player ratio is about halfway down the article if you want to know where to look for it. Mind you the article is from 2017, DDON has shut down since then and I haven't checked for any newer numbers regarding the player ratios for the other titles listed in the interview.

It makes no sense to me that FF14 would break this historical ratio where men outnumber women 8,9,10 to 1.

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

It makes no sense to me that FF14 would break this historical ratio where men outnumber women 8,9,10 to 1.

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

Among the most relevant things in my opinion, player housing is a significant factor. Decorating their in-game house is very much an activity that I see people spend a good deal of time on in FF14 (it is why the Market Board, FF14 equivalent of an AH, has so many pieces of furniture on it). Next is outfits, FF14 has a lot of variety in aesthetic choices for customizing your wardrobe. It has more conservative styled clothing as well as more risque outfits, so there is a lot of choice available for people who enjoy spending time dressing up their characters. I think both of these aspects appeal more to women than games that have a focus on PvP or PvE as the core game content.

Coming back around to the overall game appeal: FF14 is not really marketed for hardcore gamers, it is marketed for more casual and story oriented players. The base GCD being 2.5 seconds I think actually helps the game in weeding out gamers who have more impatient temperaments, and in my experience male gamers do trend to being significantly more impatient than female gamers. The overall tone of the in-game community is more relaxed because of the stricter community standards. You know if someone starts being bigoted they are going to get banned for that behavior, and those bans often come quickly.

Lastly there is the strict community policies of FF14, their moderation is significantly stricter than that of most MMORPGs I've played. I don't recall seeing anyone ever making sexist remarks in public chat channels over the year or so I spent playing FF14. It isn't that it doesn't happen at all, it is that people who do it get banned very quickly and the community has very low tolerance for bigoted behavior. Half of the shit I've seen in a single run of LFR in WoW would be sufficient for those players to get banned in FF14, while there little to no consequence to them in WoW.

Mind you, this isn't even close to an exhaustive list, these are just some of the things that I think are among the most relevant factors in it having a wider appeal to female gamers.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It makes no sense to me that FF14 would break this historical ratio where men outnumber women 8,9,10 to 1.

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

Simply offering more than dick measuring as endgame content?

[Chilela]

It makes no sense to me that FF14 would break this historical ratio where men outnumber women 8,9,10 to 1.

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

I can't speak from personal experience, as I've never touched FF14, but it's worth noting that in the gaming sphere, women tend to favor more casual/cooperative aspects of gameplay and are less likely to be involved with more competitive aspects. If memory serves me right, in WoW's case, RP servers have higher female populations than PvE/PvP servers, and in general, it seems like higher-end raiding guilds and PvP teams have less of said population. Additionally, casual-oriented mobile games are famous for having high-portion female bases Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule, and one could theoretically argue about social factors playing in, but as it stands, it seems like the divide between casual and hardcore is, in itself, largely a gap between the sexes as well.

[Adamas102]

Context doesn't matter? Really? You know killing someone is bad IRL too?

You probably thought you were being clever, but you clearly overlooked the INTENDED context part. But hey, this actually helps further support my point.

People who claim that violent video games incite real life violence are putting their own context over the intent of the developers (exactly what Kaminaris is doing). Are you arguing that the context they view these video games through should supersede the intent of the video game creators? I'm gonna guess your answer would be no. For that same reason, the humorous context that Kaminaris uses for certain emotes doesn't supersede the intent Blizzard had when they put those emotes in the game. If Blizzard wants to do away with emotes that were designed to be insulting and negative, people who argue "but I only used those emotes to joke around" don't really matter.

[kaminaris]

You did not at all answer any of my questions, can you do that? Where are you getting that Square and Blizzard are finding its players gender by their payment information? My own bank and Blizzard accounts have no gender information in them.

Just screeching "you don't know about statistics!" at me over and over isn't really an argument. You are the one that stated that they (Square and Blizzard) get this information from payment information and that THAT is a good source of information. Where are you getting that?

But this is false. Payment info does have your name. With 99.9% certainty you can determine gender of payer from almost any payment. It's extremely simple algorithm that loops over accounts, checks their name and counts unambiguous names of both male and female.

"my own bank" is not argument, I know what I am saying as I literally implemented payments in online shops. API returns much more than just amount of payment and datetime. And neither square nor blizzard has option to pay with truly anonymous payments. So that leaves only game cards.

For example paypal returns given email, name, surname, alternate full name and country: https://developer.paypal.com/docs/ap...ion-search/v1/


Now assuming both games each have 1M players for simplicity (which is probably worst case scenario). Subtract 10% of that because of ambiguous names (gender neutral).
You will be left with 900 000 players. Lets assume ~30% of that 300 000 for simplicity is paying with game time cards bought elsewhere.

That is still 600 000 players. Heck, lets cut that in half = 300 000.

300 000 is large enough sample size to determine ratio with +/-3% error margin.
Error margin includes payments done by parents (not just moms, but dads CC as well) alongside with unusual cases where someone named their daughter "Henry".

Why I know they do? Because every company does profile it's customers. They need to know demographics in order to be successful. Every single one maybe except the microcompanies.

[Stormwolf64]

They should hold a GDC talk about how to drive your customers away, they're doing everything right

Indeed. Ohh and i forgot the china incident.

[Woobels]

It makes no sense to me that FF14 would break this historical ratio where men outnumber women 8,9,10 to 1.

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

It's the gameplay more than anything, more focus on story/collecting/roleplaying/the list goes on, not so much on competitive content.

[thottstation]

What does FF14 do that appeals to women more than other games to the point where a 9 to 1 ratio turns into 7 to 3?

Since you specifically asked...









Meanwhile, the only sexy dresses available in WoW are festive holiday dresses useable a few days in a year and low-poly ones added in 2006, and hats still make you go bald!



And instead of jumping on the HUGE transmog and outfitting craze, Blizzard bizarrely seem to resent the whole system.

And now with the cultural revolution happening at Blizzard HQ and Amish moral values suddenly becoming cool, everyone's gone from wanting more blinged-out filagreed dresses and sexy outfits to "Oh god please don't remove what little we have. They're 17yr old jpg-quality dresses, but it's all we got!"

How ironic that all the "Muh SLIppERy sLOpE FaLLaCy" people are nowhere to be found.

Maybe the "Oh, and Blizzard is also removing flirts and jokes" news hit too early, and they never got the chance to mock everyone for being irked that we're losing yet more Rated T for Teen content?

Weep for all the women who loved their Night Elf characters.

The tree burned. They got genocided. Tyrande ditched her dress made of stars and never made it available for players. And the Night Elf Alizée dance has a Hunter's Mark over it the size of Sargeras' sword.

[Echocho]

It's becoming increasingly clear that the devs have completely lost their minds.

[docterfreeze]

this and there's a few quests which suggest rape and physical domestic abuse in the game such as the TBC quests referring to the Draenei and Orcs and Garona Halforcen's lore. These people are selectively ignorant as selective ignorance can be.

Hypocrisy does not register in the minds of the these zealots. You're just giving them more things to burn. Instead of poking holes in their nonexistent logic, the best thing we can do is deny them money and call them retarded.

[Maddoc]

You probably thought you were being clever, but you clearly overlooked the INTENDED context part. But hey, this actually helps further support my point.

People who claim that violent video games incite real life violence are putting their own context over the intent of the developers (exactly what Kaminaris is doing). Are you arguing that the context they view these video games through should supersede the intent of the video game creators? I'm gonna guess your answer would be no. For that same reason, the humorous context that Kaminaris uses for certain emotes doesn't supersede the intent Blizzard had when they put those emotes in the game. If Blizzard wants to do away with emotes that were designed to be insulting and negative, people who argue "but I only used those emotes to joke around" don't really matter.

And it seems you're stuck in the "I am more smarterer here".

Claiming that context doesn't matter, then proving it by making the "violence is caused by video game" myth, as we all know is a myth, to back up your point, just proves how wrong you actually are.

The argument I am making for context, is that it is an action comitted in a video game. Not how it is used. We can put all the actions from WoW, hell every video game, into an humerous context. It's possible. As you said yourself:

You do understand that IRL spitting on someone else is bad, right? It's a pretty universal and vile way of expressing anger and disgust. You understand that, right? You understand that that is what the emote was designed to convey, right? Just because you like to use it ironically at times, you understand the purpose of the emote given how you use it with NPCs. So if you understand how the emote is usually interpreted, how it's designed to be interpreted, then you should understand why Blizzard wouldn't want to keep it around. It's purpose was literally to communicate negativity between players.

Yes, I think that most of the playerbase understands that spitting on someone is bad and that it is ment to show resent towards the one you're spitting at. The problem I have with your argument is that you make the connection between the video game and real life. Because you do understand that IRL, killing, wounding, etc. is bad, right? It baffles me that you keep pushing your argument based on "Well, it's bad in RL!" It's ment as a way to show disgust, and it's been used as such. Do I care if it is removed, not really, but I think it's a removal done to cater the "muh feelings"-crowd, the vocal minority, and one that does nothing towards anything.

What's next, people will just use another emote, for example, /cheer and use it ironically and with negative connotations towards others. If that happens, should that emote get removed as well? What about /clap? Clapping in real life has many uses, some negative and ironically.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I'm telling you, the female Pandaren "Let me show you my Kung-Fu grip" and the Draenei female "I want you to *lick and splat* my *gurgling noises* *slurping noises" is the first getting removed.

And of course, unexpectedly.. I called it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...jjw/edit#gid=0

Really fucking pathetic but what else did you expect? Next many of the female dances will be trimmed. Every NPC covered up. Every name and insult changed to positive quotes and a compliment.

- - - Updated - - -

"I like to fart in the tub"
"One time I laughed so hard I milked all over the floor"
"Sure, I've got exotic piercings"
"Once you go dead, you never go back"
"Interested in joining the mile deep club?"
"Us undead girls really know how to have a good time, because after all, what's the worst thing that could happen?"
"I admire a soldier who can... remain... at attention."
"Have you seen Prophet Velen's new dance? He calls it the 'Mac'Areena'!"
"I used to be a ten, but then I upgraded to an eleven."
and more removed.

[Adamas102]

And it seems you're stuck in the "I am more smarterer here".

Claiming that context doesn't matter, then proving it by making the "violence is caused by video game" myth, as we all know is a myth, to back up your point, just proves how wrong you actually are.

Stopped reading here since this is literally the opposite of what I said. Maybe your next response will be "smarterer".

[Maddoc]

Stopped reading here since this is literally the opposite of what I said. Maybe your next response will be "smarterer".

And both my point and the irony of the spelling went over your head. Ggez

[Adamas102]

And both my point and the irony of the spelling went over your head. Ggez

You have no point if you can't bother understanding what the argument is to begin with. "It's bad IRL" isn't the argument no matter how much you want to keep repeating it. You read the setup and then ignored what that led to. Blizzard put the emote in the game with a particular intent, they no longer wish to support that intent, and the other poster's desire to keep the emote because they use it differently than Blizzard's intent doesn't matter. The fact that you failed to understand the argument is further proved by your little "well what if people start using /cheer as an insult?" rant. Bring it right back to Blizzard's intent when they put /cheer in the game, compare it to the intent when they added /spit, and then maybe you can answer your own stupid hypothetical.

Oh, and the misspelling loses it's irony when you keep making a fool of yourself. If you're not going to bother reading the quote string to understand what is being discussed then don't bother trying to interject.

[Flutterguy]

RIP "I can crush steel with me thighs."

[Maddoc]

You have no point if you can't bother understanding what the argument is to begin with. "It's bad IRL" isn't the argument no matter how much you want to keep repeating it. You read the setup and then ignored what that led to. Blizzard put the emote in the game with a particular intent, they no longer wish to support that intent, and the other poster's desire to keep the emote because they use it differently than Blizzard's intent doesn't matter. The fact that you failed to understand the argument is further proved by your little "well what if people start using /cheer as an insult?" rant. Bring it right back to Blizzard's intent when they put /cheer in the game, compare it to the intent when they added /spit, and then maybe you can answer your own stupid hypothetical.

Oh, and the misspelling loses it's irony when you keep making a fool of yourself. If you're not going to bother reading the quote string to understand what is being discussed then don't bother trying to interject.

Yet you are the one holding on to your argument around the implications from an IRL standpoint, and thus claiming context is irrelevant. One member saying his/her use for it and their context, which you claim to be wrong/not as intended (for some reason), and basing it around the usage of spitting IRL. I am just pointing out the falacy in your argument.

[Kokolums]

i remember when i was a kid in the 1980s playing electronic DnD and all the parents were aghast because it was to them, a satanic game with satanic imagery and i should not play it. now we have corporations self censoring emotes. so strange.