View Poll Results: Who should be blamed for toxicity in Wow?

Voters
145. This poll is closed
  • Toxic community

    71 48.97%
  • Developers, who've created conditions for toxicity to grow

    74 51.03%
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  1. #121
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    I don't think you need to be a prophet to predict that if you punch someone they will probably punch you back. Do you think it requires much brainpower to figure out that for example the way that current m+ keys work where 1 shithead can leave in the middle of the run and ruin the run+key would be toxic?
    I'm confused where I ever stated that it wouldn't be toxic? Can you point that out? The situation you describe would be toxic no matter what. It is not only toxic because there is a timer for M+. Blizzard is not responsible for that player leaving, are they?

    Like what do you gain by being nice now?
    Doesn't this just prove my point? That people will choose to be toxic unless forced not to. So the responsibility is on the person making the choice and not on the person that didn't force them. It really isn't surprising that people shift blame for toxic behavior from themselves to developers. It is a convenient justification for any action they take and allows them to stoke rage at the developers for no good reason.
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  2. #122
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I am not sure to what phenomenon you are referring to.

    If you are talking about actual toxicity, like ninja looting and other antisocial behaviors, then the blame is on both sides: players for being dicks, and Blizzard for not taking enough precautions/giving enough punishment for it.

    You can see it as early as elementary school, a system without someone to mantain the law will inevitably suck. No point in being a hard-working, brilliant student if Jimboe next to you can just copy everything because the teacher falls asleep during the exam. Might as well just copy everything yourself and stop trying. It is wrong and harmful if you do it, more so than just a game, but if I were the head of school, first I would fire the teacher, then reprimand the students.

    If you are talking about the latest trend of labeling everything as toxic, as is customary right now in the USA, you are fighting a lost cause. Blizzard is located there afaik and, just like everyone else, they have to walk on eggshells to avoid being "canceled". I just hope this phenomenon will deflate over time and go away for good. But in the meantime Blizzard is a prisoner of it as much as every player that stares in disbelief at them removing emotes because they are "toxic".

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I'm confused where I ever stated that it wouldn't be toxic? Can you point that out? The situation you describe would be toxic no matter what. It is not only toxic because there is a timer for M+. Blizzard is not responsible for that player leaving, are they?



    Doesn't this just prove my point? That people will choose to be toxic unless forced not to. So the responsibility is on the person making the choice and not on the person that didn't force them. It really isn't surprising that people shift blame for toxic behavior from themselves to developers. It is a convenient justification for any action they take and allows them to stoke rage at the developers for no good reason.
    Yea but how can you know that? Can you predict the future?
    If the situation would be toxic no matter what, guess what you can do, not create that situation in the first place... Devs are the ones that created a thing where you can grief 4 other people, that 1 guy leaving did ''nothing wrong'' in the context of the game, you are allowed to press the leave party button and hs out without any ingame punishment.

    No, what a weird thing to say, ''choose to be toxic unless forced not to'' lol
    What's this responsibility you're talking about? Responsibility to who?

    We react to what they create, if the reaction to that creation is toxicity, they started it. You cant react to something and be toxic about something that doesn't exist.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I'll let this one go since I'm guessing English isn't your first language, but at no point did I say that the backpack was still 16 slots.
    Oh... i see... 'Your english is not good enough to argue with me' argument... ok...
    Yes. English is not my first language but i use it for +20 years fluently now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    It was changed despite having been a certain way for almost 14 years
    There was a specific reason why it was that way for these years.
    SPOILER: programming issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    hence tenure in game isn't a good reason to keep things unchanged.
    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Yeah, none of those affect game play in any positive way.
    Wait... /hug and /hello are not positive for the game?
    Ok... sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    This is a game first and foremost, and games by their nature shouldn't include outlets designed pretty much to convey negativity. That's why having emotes to express things like joy don't need to have negative ones to counter them. Bringing up the store mounts makes this point abundantly clear.
    Opinion again... and i got different one.

    My last respone to you and i ignored most of your pointless 'i will use opposite of your words' banter.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Toxicity has reason, and that reason is absolute impunity ingame. You can be crazy mf, ganking and ninja-looting and be just fine. You can butthurt in chat all day, and all your punishment is none. Blizz have nothing to do with that.
    Humans are jerks, fresh news, everyone!
    Blizzard has everything to do with it. They allow it to happen. In fact, they CONDONE it. Just look at how they pull the kind of toxic crap players might in game out in the real world during blizzcon. They very much created and nurtured this beast and them slapping some pc bullshit bandaid fixes instead of simply going with a zero tolerance policy towards pure toxic behavior stands as a testament to the kind of people they themselves are; lo and behold we're seeing EXACTLY that through this lawsuit.
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  6. #126
    As many others have established, depends on what kind of toxicity: I mean spitting on people, even virtually, is kinda disgusting and I've seen people rage quit and being dismissed from raids and even gilds over it. For many it's on the level telling someone their mother is a whore, which at least here in europe is usually not a badge of honor or the basic premise of a rap-battle. It was funny if comming from some sore loser that just started to spam his macro though, as it just amplified their own impotence even more. I won't miss it and frankly I don't see the reason for it. If you want it for RP you can use /e for anything you can come up with.

    If we talk about people behaving like asses in dungeons, well that is what happens if you foister overly competitive systems on people and have no incentive to actually behave like a decent human being. Stuff like leaving at the first sign of a suboptimal run. People can argue that it's justified as it just wastes time, and while that may be so, I simply don't see a reason to punish the people left behind for it. Here the fault lies clearly with Blizzard, their failing virtual dick-measuring systems and the impatient spergs they've cultivated as their playerbase.

    Obviously both are to blame for it to some degree, but Blizzard is certainly not innocent in this, as they foster or at least facilitate this behaviour..
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-10-01 at 07:01 AM.
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    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So players are not responsible for being toxic because Blizzard was sued for having a toxic workplace? Moderators, game masters, police, and any other entity that enforces rules is necessary because people choose to break those rules. Your arguments literally prove what I am saying. People choose to be toxic and things were created by society to discourage or stop those actions.

    That choice was still made by the person and not the enforcer. Players were not forced to be toxic because they were told it is against the rules. Lol.
    No, people do not chose to be toxic, there are people who are inherently toxic (because previous environment shaped them so) or became toxic shaped by WoW environment. The thing is, not moderating environment is going to create a toxic wastepool.

    My arguments doesn't prove anything you said simply because you don't understand the root of the problem.

    And root of the problem is like that:

    Countless of experiences (interactions/feelings/successes/failures etc) are shaping your behavior. Same goes for game experiences.
    If developers creates environment where griefing is tolerated and there is no penalty to that what do you think it will happen?
    It will influence people behavior via influx of negative feelings. This is like basics of psychology.

    You are not going to ruin someone day by /spitting on him. But thousand of /spits is going to eventually affect him. (That is a metaphor in case you wonder).

    When you get corpse camped, teabagged on battleground, spit in a city, someone leaves your key, calls you something or harrases you in any other way while completely getting away with it is 100% developers fault. Because the ONLY way to prevent that is to have zero tolerance to this behavior and start banning people.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2021-10-01 at 07:02 AM.
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  8. #128
    Just because you can be toxic doesn't mean you have to, if you think company is somehow responsible for people who don't know what to do with anonymity then you are delusional. They are responsible for lack of repercussions for being an asshole but that is about it. And if you think that you "cooperation" idea works - I got you bad news, raids are cooperation

  9. #129
    Yeah, if you still think that "programming issues" has anything at all to do with the backpack comparison then your reading comprehension is not good enough for me to continue arguing some of these points with you. So I'll just skip to the end since you, like a lot of people on this forum, don't know what an opinion is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Opinion again... and i got different one.
    It's not an opinion to state that WoW is a game. WoW is a video game. The word is right there.

    It's not an opinion to state that the nature of games is to provide fun and entertainment. They can provide other things as well, like compensation for people who play them professionally or knowledge for people who use them in educational formats, but the primary function of games in general is to provide fun. WoW isn't an exception.

    It's not an opinion to state that negativity affects most people's ability to have fun. Sure, some people take pleasure in hurting, insulting, annoying, or frustrating others, but we typically call those types of people sociopaths, sadists, or just really socially immature asshats (it's an academic term).

    It's also not an opinion to state that having positive emotes doesn't necessitate having negative ones (you might LIKE having them, but it's objectively true to say that you don't NEED them). Take it a step further and we can say that emotes in general are unnecessary since their removal would not affect the ability of players to access any content that they currently have access to.

    Take all of those and put them together. WoW is a game and its primary purpose is to provide fun, which means that Blizzard should do everything they can to discourage negativity between players, including removing things that can be abused and that the game doesn't need (like emotes).

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Blizzard has everything to do with it. They allow it to happen. In fact, they CONDONE it. Just look at how they pull the kind of toxic crap players might in game out in the real world during blizzcon. They very much created and nurtured this beast and them slapping some pc bullshit bandaid fixes instead of simply going with a zero tolerance policy towards pure toxic behavior stands as a testament to the kind of people they themselves are; lo and behold we're seeing EXACTLY that through this lawsuit.
    So its blizz fault that humans are jerks? really?
    Well, western community at its best.

  11. #131
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    This game has one of the most toxic communities that I've ever seen and it has since the start.
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  12. #132
    There's really no such thing as "toxicity" It's a completely made up concept and a made up problem.

    The word has been overused and warped to the point it's meaningless.

    At this point it means "Someone did or said something I don't like"

    People honestly expect to play a game with millions of other people and have ever single thing about it be exactly 100% the way they like at all times.

    Instead you have game developers trying to sanitize their games and player interactions and it's an impossible task. The only way to ensure no negative interactions is to remove interactions, and that's where gaming is headed.

    Most online games all feel like single player games now, some anonymous lobby, you hit button, consume a little content with people you don't know, they might as well be bots, and then it's over. Everything feels cold, sterile, and generic.

    Some negative interactions are healthy for an online game and especially for an MMO. Jerks make you appreciate the good guys. Disastrous groups make for good war stories later. It makes the game feel more alive and more like and actual living, breathing world.

    Phrases like "Get over it", "Deal with it", "Stop whining" need to make a comeback with a vengeance.

  13. #133
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    Blizzard for not doing enough to discourage it with penalties/actioning. The Community is also to blame for not being better humanbeings.

  14. #134
    Its both, sure the developers may have made a game that fosters toxicity but shifting all the blame onto the devs isn't fair either, people are gonna be shit if they can get away with it, Blizzard didn't turn all the toxic shitheads into toxic shitheads, they were toxic shitheads from start, of course no one wants to admit that because its easier to blame Blizzard.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Yeah, if you still think that "programming issues" has anything at all to do with the backpack comparison then your reading comprehension is not good enough for me to continue arguing some of these points with you. So I'll just skip to the end since you, like a lot of people on this forum, don't know what an opinion is.



    It's not an opinion to state that WoW is a game. WoW is a video game. The word is right there.

    It's not an opinion to state that the nature of games is to provide fun and entertainment. They can provide other things as well, like compensation for people who play them professionally or knowledge for people who use them in educational formats, but the primary function of games in general is to provide fun. WoW isn't an exception.

    It's not an opinion to state that negativity affects most people's ability to have fun. Sure, some people take pleasure in hurting, insulting, annoying, or frustrating others, but we typically call those types of people sociopaths, sadists, or just really socially immature asshats (it's an academic term).

    It's also not an opinion to state that having positive emotes doesn't necessitate having negative ones (you might LIKE having them, but it's objectively true to say that you don't NEED them). Take it a step further and we can say that emotes in general are unnecessary since their removal would not affect the ability of players to access any content that they currently have access to.

    Take all of those and put them together. WoW is a game and its primary purpose is to provide fun, which means that Blizzard should do everything they can to discourage negativity between players, including removing things that can be abused and that the game doesn't need (like emotes).
    The fail in your logic is there is another ways to ruin the fun for others (in fact emotes are the least harmful way unless if somebody way overly sensitive) It`s like if you irl forbid the middle finger by law then no more rapes or violence gonna happen anymore....and that is silly expectation
    Removing "negative" and keeping "positive" creates a sterile environment with zero connection with reality and when people get used to it and moving into a not so sterile environment (workplace for example....people are different, no way in hell everbody likes everbody in a workplace) they gonna butthurt (or worst) within minutes because they did not get used to it

  16. #136
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    We already have several active threads regarding the recent removal of some emote commands, so let's consolidate discussion into fewer threads. Closing this.
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