Page 25 of 30 FirstFirst ...
15
23
24
25
26
27
... LastLast
  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think the game has always had problems but in this specific case I actually prefer the legion/bfa/shadowlands way of having something to do compared to wotlk/cata/wod for example where i spent half my time running laps around Dalaran/SW/Org/Garrison. Just for my own perspective I definitely enjoy having something to do over nothing to do. With that said I think the problem you mention surfaces in other areas though, such as M+ reward structure and how you can do as many keys a week (or as high) as you want and you will never equal the weekly vault reward. I think that is a big flaw because they're trying to timegate your gearing process and I think 252 should be obtainable from the run - either if you do high enough a key or with a certain rating allowing you to upgrade to that level.
    its not really an issue of something to do vs nothing to do. Its more of a pacing choice.

    Anchoice between 1. play for 40-80 hours in whatever pace you like vs 2. Play for 1-2 hours a day, for a total and minimum of 40days.

    I prefer the binge option. If im "into" something i want to do that thing all the time, i dont want to toggle between games to meet some daily threshold because that reminds me too much of a chore rather than a hobby. Also it doesnt help that the activities in recent expansions have often been quite mindless.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  2. #482
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    31,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    from every single system in the game that is designed around a certain pace which the player cannot surpass. Its "show up once a day for 15min then fuck off", If thats not telling a population of players that grinded out this game 16 years ago without artificial barriers to fuck off i don't know what is.
    Maybe for you. I play a couple of times a week, do most everything that needs to be done by the end of the expansion, don't get bored, don't grind, don't worry about barriers, artificial or otherwise. I think a lot of players are not-every-day players. I think there's a lot wrong with the game and especially with systems but this isn't a concern. There are too many good games out there to limit myself to spending a lot of time 'grinding' anything in WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    its not really an issue of something to do vs nothing to do. Its more of a pacing choice.
    It has everything to do with making sure there's something to do. It's not an accident that systems like this proliferated after Warlords.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    Here is my issue with that outlook. A lot of the stuff in this game was created by those devs. Would you be in favor of changing a lot more things, even important things, just because they touched them? It is one thing to remove something directly related to harassment in the workplace, it is another thing to try and purge the game of everything old guard. Because that -is- almost everything. At what point would it stop being World of Warcraft, and would you be okay with that?
    Obviously not. But to claim that any of these things have anything to do with politics is absurd even if the far right seem to want it to be.

    The changes are obviously absurd but for the love of God stop making it about politics. This isn't some grand plan to stop Donald Trump at the gate, it's just delusional snowflakes doing what they do best.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    its not really an issue of something to do vs nothing to do. Its more of a pacing choice.

    Anchoice between 1. play for 40-80 hours in whatever pace you like vs 2. Play for 1-2 hours a day, for a total and minimum of 40days.

    I prefer the binge option. If im "into" something i want to do that thing all the time, i dont want to toggle between games to meet some daily threshold because that reminds me too much of a chore rather than a hobby. Also it doesnt help that the activities in recent expansions have often been quite mindless.
    When I was 15 I thought that was neat too, as an adult with more responsibilities and less time I don't mind the change that lets you get a couple of things daily and space things out a bit. But I think even in the bigger picture, the "there's nothing to do" problem that was pretty big in Wotlk/Cata and peaked in WoD, they kinda fixed that by adding some more time gates and such.

    I do think there's a middle ground though. Some things IMO make sense to be time gated but other things don't. They've always seemed to struggle to find that balance IMO and they go too far on either side of the line.

  5. #485
    Titan Orby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Essex, England
    Posts
    11,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I can almost wholeheartedly say, after seeing the comments from the devs with 24 pronouns on twitter gloating about the changes they pushed for, that they were NOT the target of any alleged 'cube crawl'
    So without knowing we just attack them regardless... classy. Maybe you should be taking your blame out on the butt touchers instead, because of them all this stuff would still be in the game. Don't blame the people who you don't know may or may not be victims in this.
    Proof is boring. Proof is tiresome. Proof is irrelevance. People would rather be handed an easy lie than search for a difficult truth, especially when it suits their own purpose.
    - Glokta
    The Last Argument of Kings, The First Law Trilogy.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    This was a response to them changing every joke in the game.
    It was a part of a discussion whether this was PR or a smokescreen to distract from other issues.

  7. #487
    Just let them take their totally-not-political crusade to its logical conclusion, there's so much more old content in the game they can cut and change. Why even bother creating new stuff.
    It's like a Titanic in slo-mo with circus music in the background.
    People who give wow another 10 years are delusional.

  8. #488
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    31,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It was a part of a discussion whether this was PR or a smokescreen to distract from other issues.
    It doesn't have to be one or the other though. As PR it's sort of weak since most people who may have heard of the lawsuit won't ever hear or know about this. It's something performative they can show to California to say they comprehend what the lawsuit was about (at least in part). It's clearly something that some developers want to do. The other pieces of the lawsuit don't relate to what's in the game at all so I wouldn't know who the audience for the smokescreen would be. I think it's primarily driven by developers who see this stuff every day and have grown irritated with it for various reasons, not all of them simple. In any case changing some emotes, flirts and paintings has become ridiculously overblown by many. It's not a big deal and no one who was paying attention ever thought that Blizzard's staff was made up of conservative right-winger types. Most of the changes are changing a word here and there or commenting out an emote/flirt; something that can be done in no time at all.

    The California agency that started all of this isn't going to be fooled by any of this. Most of the lawsuit was about pay and opportunity equity, why people were reluctant go to HR with complaints about management, and a slew of other stuff that has nothing at all to do with what's in the game. They won't really let Blizzard off the hook for all of that because they made cosmetic changes to the game.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-10-04 at 10:04 AM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  9. #489
    I don't think the new generation has the hypocritical nonsense values that corporations like Blizzard pretend to have. So they are just digging their own grave.

    Personally I love old Wow, I love old Blizzard. I played Classic and had a lot of fun -despite- modern Blizzard. Because they were completely shit, did nothing against bots and so on.

    But I can't play the next fresh after all this SJW bullshit. Censoring emotes, paintings, jokes, quests, NPC names. Fuck off.

  10. #490
    Pr move...because it isn't whether people involved will hear about this, it's about whether they might hear about it. It's more about making stock holders happy.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Without devolving this thread into a hot political debate, that's a sweeping generalization. While some bad things can be traced to this generation, good things can be found, as well. However, I think pointing to a single generation with respect to this topic is too narrow with regarding what's going on around it.

    How does this relate to the topic? It's heavily tied to people today in relation to what's going on, whether it's the players or the people working at ActiBlizz. One generalization that tends to hold true is that during rough times, people will be way more focused on what's important... but during peaceful times, people will lose focus on what's important or just straight-up start focusing on things that don't matter. Over the past couple decades in the US, times have been insanely peaceful (unless you watch the news, then it's WW3 every night because that sells), and a sign of such peaceful and easy times is that people are focusing WAY too much on stuff that doesn't matter or sometimes destructive because they have too much free time to do so. Furthermore, many non-peaceful times are exacerbated or even begin due to such idleness of all.

    As the phrase goes, "Idle hands are the Devil's workshop; idle lips are his mouthpiece." Such tendencies are insanely easy to see nowadays, just hop onto any forum or social media website. Not only is insanely crazy and baseless crap and redefining (or rather attempted destruction) of truth being propagated everywhere, but also it's being embraced and even incorporated at all levels of ActiBlizz. The evidence is the iniquity within their halls as well as the reflection of their lack of morality in their decisions in response. While not everyone may proclaim the same viewpoints and 'morality' within the company (or they may seem opposite at times), the bad direction and actions are still enabled by all as their viewpoints (even if seemingly divergent) all lead to the same end if not based upon any reality. This is a fundamental human nature observation that has been observed for thousands of years, ActiBlizz is just a prime example of this.

    In the end, this is why I feel there has to be fundamental change within Blizz to get anywhere close to what it once was, and a leadership change is only a first step to a marathon. It's very obvious that there was a shift in driving motivations for their content over time, and where Blizz currently stands was only natural result of embracing terrible things. Could it have been avoided? Absolutely, but the culture makes it hard as people tend to want to follow the crowd and be idle versus stand up against evil or protesting that which is objectively false. While some people think that the 'frat boy' culture was the only bad culture in the company, I can guarantee you that it's only one of many bad cultures in the company... it's just the one culture more people can agree upon as being wrong.
    I think what you are missing is that life is harder for young people today than it was for the average boomer. For their generation, college was effectively free, retirement was guaranteed, it was extremely easy to live comfortable life for a family on one income from a high school grad. Even taxes for the average person were lower back then.

    Focusing on wartime vs peacetime misses that entirely, not to mention that the boomers just had Vietnam. It’s not like they fought WWII.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    You know there are other countries than America right? Every american generation is the worst so it's really not a good measuring stick.
    No American generation has handed off the country economically worse than when they got it except the boomers. But even accounting for the fact that boomer is a term used across the west, my point largely holds true throughout most core western nations so your criticism is moot.

  12. #492
    Honestly im glad im playing FFXIV at this point, WoW has hit a point now where absoleutley nothing good can come from these changes.

    From pandering to aweful plotlines I really just dont care anymore, no, I dont, not everyone wants to appeal or cares to make people comfortable. Heres the thing, ill quote a Pandaren quote back in Throne of Thunder, it only takes one person to say no to reject those in charge.

    I reject blizzard, im content to reject blizzard I really dont give a damn anymore what they make, its trash, they wont get my money and I am happy to be blunt about it.

    All they're doing right now is damage control to fix the absoleute mess they themselves made, instead of leaving the game as is, and making better things going 'forward' because if anything, id even argue keeping it in would be symbolism of how they've moved on from it over time.

    Rather than removing it entirley in an attempt to cover up what they percieve to be mistakes, some of which are totally fine.

    French-girl-posing woman portrait? Fine, Why literally objectify them into fruit bowls?

    Flirts/Jokes? Why the hell are you getting rid of those? "Cause some of them are edgy/inappropriate" thats what 'made' them fun in the first place, and most people know it, even those offended by them can appriciate satire, which they were by the way.

    Next they'll start changing female armors to make them more "appropriate" removing the skimpy outfits and some of the male ones too to make them more "Appropriate" for the current year.

    You watch, it'll happen, this is actually the death of expressionism, not the increase to it, we're basically telling people personal expression is bad, and that you can only have the opinion of the games consensus.

    This is not the only time in wow's history blizz has done shitty things to everyone, from real ID, to literally banning LGBTQ guilds back in Vanilla from advertising because of christian values until they were forced to issue an appology and be more inclusive.

    The difference in that one was nothing was removed, only added, they gave the LGBTQ community a voice and after that, nobody complained, about flirts, about sexualisation about anything.

    This whole affair is built on recent trends that are frankly dying out and the majority of us no longer care about, nobody gives a crap about pandering except a Tumblr Margin of humanity.

    So to finish on my stance on the topic, Absoleutley all of this is PR, nobody actually wanted this, except the CEO's and the damage control divsion of blizzard, they're changing things nobody asked for and adding absoleutley laughably bad choices in their place, again, turning women into fruit.

    The model changes are great and all, but wheres the real fix, leaving things that were in, and making new things better?
    Last edited by CaptainV; 2021-10-04 at 11:24 AM.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    You know what is political? removing those things because your political world view sees them as 'problematic' when any rational person can see the difference between a joke or humour and not feel like they need to cower in a safe space.
    Incorrect. You are biased. The things you do like are labeled as apolitical. The things you don't like are labeled as a political attack. Not every form of media out there has all of these things in them which means that they don't have to exist. You would lead a sad existence if everything that doesn't contain those things are labeled as "evil political works".

    Even jokes and humor vary widely in acceptance and appeal. You imply you don't understand this by saying that everyone has to universally accept the taste of everyone else.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    The social is the political. They are inserting their political ideology, which dictates their decisions and actions into the game. And their ideology is insane. I don't want it anywhere near the game. It poisons everything it touches.

    You're happy for them to make punitive changes that only divide the player base instead of fixing core issues with the game, such as loot that you've identified. So in effect, you're content with them wasting resources and energy on this garbage that could have otherwise been invested in fixing something that causes actual frustration.

    That is why this is so bad. These people are not working in your best interest. They are serving themselves.
    Punitive? You mean towards those that abused others at the work place driving one into suicide? I don't think being punitive towards abusers is a bad thing nor do i find it divisive.

    The resources being "wasted" on this are minimal. No one is losing major content for it. Literal name changes and other small changes.

    As i said, this is their game. We are not their children, we are customers, and we do have the choice to stop paying for the service and take our money elsewhere.

    What is wrong with this game are not these small changes, which you've been influenced into thinking attack you in some way and make a big deal of. They are completely harmless changes.
    Honestly if Mcaree is now Eredeth or whatever. Who cares? It's for the best. The team having a safer internal atmosphere can only be beneficial for development.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Genuinely hard to understand what this rambling post of terrible english is even trying to say. Sorry you didn't like the changes I guess.
    Its not hard to understand. I wanna do only pvp, but i cant, because i lose much dmg/heal when im missing pve shit.

    So you are forced to do content u dont wanna play (pve) just so you can compete in the content u wanna actually play. (pvp) or grinding pvp to get your bis heart of azeroth essence.

    And without bis you perform much worse amd have alot of problems to finds good groups/mates.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Its not hard to understand. I wanna do only pvp, but i cant, because i lose much dmg/heal when im missing pve shit.

    So you are forced to do content u dont wanna play (pve) just so you can compete in the content u wanna actually play. (pvp) or grinding pvp to get your bis heart of azeroth essence.

    And without bis you perform much worse amd have alot of problems to finds good groups/mates.
    Except the PvP BiS is, with very few exceptions, entirely PvP gear. So yes, you can. Unless you mean Torghast and maybe weeklies for Renown?

    The periods of the game where you could ignore PvE more than current are very few and short. So again, what are you complaining about?

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    good for you... I have been arguing that these changes are not indicative of Blizzard changing. only that the reaction to said changes is EQUALLY stupid. crying over the SJW's... crying over the left taking over society etc. it's all so obnoxious and goes to show how warped people's priorities are.
    And you also agreed these changes do nothing. Also, where have I mentioned the left, or SJWs or anything like that? Like quit rambling and deflecting.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    And you also agreed these changes do nothing. Also, where have I mentioned the left, or SJWs or anything like that? Like quit rambling and deflecting.
    yes, and I'm still entitled to comment on the situation.

    so, I'm expected to go through your posting history even though you didn't bother going through mine....? even though I only bring those topics up because OTHER people cannot for one second articulate their displeasure with these changes beyond screaming about the left and SJW's, not not my fault let alone my problem.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I've been getting those vibes for the past 7 years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's been pretty clear for several years now that the game is run by people who don't play the game and aren't designing the game for their paying customers. They actively resent the actual Warcraft audience and have been gaslighting and insulting them for years.
    Huge agree. The only time they ever shift gears away from that is when the bottom line takes damage. Then they throw together an "I am sorry" patch or two until they go right back to the dookie. Which actually makes it worse in my eyes. It shows me if they wanted to they could listen, absorb feedback, and create a decently fun game. They just choose not to most the time.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Huge agree. The only time they ever shift gears away from that is when the bottom line takes damage. Then they throw together an "I am sorry" patch or two until they go right back to the dookie. Which actually makes it worse in my eyes. It shows me if they wanted to they could listen, absorb feedback, and create a decently fun game. They just choose not to most the time.
    They really should stop clinging to a playerbase that they don't want and start designing the game for the playerbase that they want, even if that means dropping to 100k subs and try growing from there.

    Is it greed that prevents them from fully cutting the cord with a playerbase they clearly despise?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •