Do you think a "Battle for Suramar" Warfront would have been a good idea?

[Ealyssa]

the concept of Warfronts was a good one

Nope it wasn't. PVP versus bots just never work. That's why actual PVP is so appealing to so much players.
And if you structured warfronts more, with a "scenario", a better layout, bosses. You just made dungeons/raids. That's called reinventing the wheel...

[Luxeley]

Warfronts in general were a really bad idea. They dropped the idea of building more of them in the middle of the xpac. And, if they didn't give a really high Item lvl reward no one would bother doing them.

[mysticx]

Yea, that would just be the same shit with different colors\backgrounds. The feature itself was at fault. Had it been a BG\PVP-oriented, it might have been something, but having it be PvE was a huge blunder as it was just a snoozefest with no variation whatsoever. Same mobs, same paths, same objectives, same duration. Horrible.

Problem is, PvP players already have BGs, so what addition would Warfronts be to that?

The whole idea of Warfronts was "PvE Battlegrounds", with the upgrade-part as callback to the RTS roots of Warcraft, make Warfronts PvP and you have... another BG.

[Talon8669]

Warfronts were really bad content. No need to make more.

I actually enjoyed them but that could be due to easy gear progression or because the content wasn't bad as a repeatable time sink or perhaps both. I did not like that they got phased out as their rewards became less than Ilvl upgrades else where. I would have liked more if there was actually (2) sides and they were more like a giant AV say. Just fighting NPC's endlessly became dull but the concept behind the content was sound. Unfortunately Blizzard did what they always do and they introduce something and then we don't really see that system improved upon and extended into the next expansion. Maybe in the future but again nothing like that in Shadowlands. Which I think is a shame. I really dislike their just toss a dart at the board and we'll try that system. Each expansion is just a new set of systems and more often than not they are failed systems; not that they couldn't be good systems if they reiterated upon them until they were right just they don't put in the long term effort. Anyways that's kind of all off topic.

[hulkgor]

Problem is, PvP players already have BGs, so what addition would Warfronts be to that?

The whole idea of Warfronts was "PvE Battlegrounds", with the upgrade-part as callback to the RTS roots of Warcraft, make Warfronts PvP and you have... another BG.

Yes, it would become a Battleground, but with the whole upgrades, buildings, pve objectives for resources and automated troops to push stuff like in a MOBA, it could at least be an interesting one (a modern AV), whereas as the PvE BG it intends to be, it flops entirely.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

No, it's supposed to be a peaceful place. Not after what was happening there during the Legion. It's still a beautiful city, it should develop into something good. A sanctuary for night elves who lost their home.

[Grazrug]

No and there shouldn't be any more. They were just a concept to give the alliance undeserves victories to stroke their ego. The less of that exist in the game the better we are off. Alliance bias ruins enough parts of the game as it goes.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Not really there was not real strategic interest into attacking Suramar, unless the NE had began to repopulate Val'Sharah and Azsuna or the Vrykuls of Stormheim had allied with the Alliance, the Night Elves and their allies after having liberated Darkshore and Ashenvale would have most likely rather attacked the Barrens.

[OwenBurton]

Not really there was not real strategic interest into attacking Suramar, unless the NE had began to repopulate Val'Sharah and Azsuna or the Vrykuls of Stormheim had allied with the Alliance, the Night Elves and their allies after having liberated Darkshore and Ashenvale would have most likely rather attacked the Barrens.

Except Suramar was strategically located right in between Kul Tiras and Zandalar on the world map, and was thus uniquely vulnerable and valuable simultaneously.

I also wanted to see whether Suramar could be updated to become a truly functioning city, like Silvermoon, and others have speculated that Val'sharah might have served as the new home of the night elves also:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...he-night-elves

[Mendzia]

ANY warfront done the same way as previous ones is horrible idea and waste of time/resources.

[Zuben]

ANY warfront done the same way as previous ones is horrible idea and waste of time/resources.

Yeah, the Warfronts were dead on arrival. Meant to bring back the feel of the RTS games, they fail in the precise thing that meant something: Rather than being commanders sending peons on busywork and directing armies on assaults, we were the boots on the ground for everything. It was terrible.

The only thing I liked about the Warfronts is that thanks to them Arathi was finally updated. And the Forsaken got some new assets, most of all a cool new ship.

[Capultro]

i prefer another warfronts...i LOVE warfronts,are a good idea, and for PvP too....

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, the Warfronts were dead on arrival. Meant to bring back the feel of the RTS games, they fail in the precise thing that meant something: Rather than being commanders sending peons on busywork and directing armies on assaults, we were the boots on the ground for everything. It was terrible.

The only thing I liked about the Warfronts is that thanks to them Arathi was finally updated. And the Forsaken got some new assets, most of all a cool new ship.

The problem I found is that you simply had too many players. The feel they should have given for is one of the player being the hero unit followed by large amounts of lesser NPCs.
No RTS has even worked when one side has 30 hero units all being independently controlled.

Had warfronts been designed around 5 people it might have worked. With that few players individual actions would matter, and you could have had more engaging choices to be made within the Warfront, and not just had someone tell out when to bring everyone over for a single blitz.

[Larodar]

As it stands today, we have literally no idea on the state of Kalimdor, for example, the exact political status of Ashenvale, Feralas, Mount Hyjal, Moonglade, etc. (the night elves are not allowing the Horde into their lands - but what constitutes their lands exactly after the Fourth War, we still have no clarification).

Good point, I also made tweets about this topic before but they seem to be silent for some reason. Either they are waiting for a large reveal at the beginning of a future expansion or there has not been significant work about the new conjectures of the Kalimdor continent's political maps.

[OwenBurton]

Good point, I also made tweets about this topic before but they seem to be silent for some reason. Either they are waiting for a large reveal at the beginning of a future expansion or there has not been significant work about the new conjectures of the Kalimdor continent's political maps.

I am very interested at the political status of Mount Hyjal and Moonglade, along with Val'sharah in the Broken Isles - if they are still neutral, perhaps that would be one more reason for the night elves to have interest in Suramar, as one of their former ancient "crown jewel" cities. One wonders how the Cenarion Circle exists even as a cohesive group - if even Malfurion is still very angry at the Horde, from Shadows Rising. If the Silver Hand broke apart and fractured - why not the Cenarion Circle?

[ravenmoon]

IF i were an advocate of war, I would support this. I use to be. Angered by the Nightborne going horde (at blizz and the plot) - that Thalyssra would be charmed by sweet words rather than substance and the ancient debt the city folk who remained kinda owe their kin.. to side with their enemies makes relationships awkward.

This could easily spill into conflict, but I hate when they do that, because Elves should be of cooler heads, wiser minds and kinder hearts (well at least night elves are according tot he lore) - given their age and intelligence. Yet, it is also true that they squabble over far more minute things than most other races because they have solved many of the conflicts, dilemmas and problems other races would kill for.. so who knows.


Thalyssra could explain that she did not send the Nightborne to fight their kin in the WoT, even if she would (which she would never) none of them would go and support.. and we can reveal what plans she had for a relationship with them, but Tyrande never revisited..even when her sisters re-opened the cathedral, she was awol.. and that was interpreted as a an indication that she did not want to pursue friendship and rekindle the bond they shared (i.e. they're all from the same city).


I have been swayed over to the point of view that actually the night elves and Nightborne should actually also be close despite being on opposite factions, they should be an example of a race that faction loyalty is secondary. I think this is important.. it always felt very weird that 10,000 year old elves, and 3,000 year old lifespan elves (thalassians) would be consumed more by the horde/alliance conflict than the goals of their own people.



To me, this state would be interesting.. the horde need the power of the Nightborne, but their loyalty isn't as ironclad because they're also friendly with kaldorei.. When approached, they rather teach you in patience and understanding and getting along. They do commit to horde efforts, but strangely never when night elves are involved - which sometimes causes their loyalty to be questioned, however they're very powerful and bring a lot to the table, and appear very honourable.

Darnassians are less understanding in this regard, they are in general benevolent, but they never engage in a conflict they do not believe in, so won't necessarily spare a Nightborne or another elf assisting the enemy, just because he is an elf.

I like the idea of Nightborne and Highborne types trying to re-unite the elves, and actually colluding to keep the factions from going to war. they have no problems involving sin'dorei and ren'dorei or other Quel'dorei, however Thalassian conflict really is another kettle of fish. They must first heal all kaldorei rifts, which was going on well until the Nightborne joined the horde leaving the Darnassian kaldorei unable to trust them. However, the fact that Farodin and his revived Valewalker order, as well as the Val'Sharah druid and priests work closely with the Nightborne is a point of connection.

What happens now is that they connect along Order lines rather than state liens - what this means is that the night elf priests are instructing the Nightborne ones called by Elune - so like Tauren druids work closely with night elf ones in Moonglade so too do Nightborne priests work with Night elf ones...besides Suramar was the last capital of the Order and Elune's most holy temple has been freed.

Also druidic and mage class lines see collaboration.. these are very much about their Order's objectives, like Class order halls were, rather than about the horde or alliance, and in time it shifts to becoming about restoring their race, as recent conflicts have reduced the number of kaldorei remining substantially.

The way you approach this i you have to change your thinking, it's not about being on the horde or the alliance, it's about learning nature and the balance of nature and arcane - for Nightborne new druids working with night elves - they are particularly interested in how the arcane benefits nature and nature actually allows them and their people to stave off addiction and actually be less compromised by the lure of arcane power. So too do night elf priest teachings which have had 15,000 years to develop the discipline needed to avoid addiction or power arrogance... and the priesthood now decide to share more information with the community and their teachings to help.

New Nightborne priests delve more into the arcane teachings of the Order of Elune, the stars too and the male orders.


I can see Nightborne being great friends with blood elves, but also very much drawn to working with night elves and helping them out (by their logic).. I can see Highborne, both being very keen to make this work, but others like Wardens (in particular Maiev, though far less crazy) being far more sceptical. Farondis being developed as a well respected Kaldorei by all night elves across the board